patrick.net

Gang violence claims 6-month-old baby even as homicides fall in Chicago

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/12/17284852-gang-violence-claims-6-month-old-baby-even-as-homicides-fall-in-chicago?lite

Even in a city with more than 500 homicides a year, it's a crime that shocks the senses: a 6-month-old Chicago girl fatally shot five times while having her diaper changed in the family van.

The infant died Tuesday morning after several surgeries to repair injuries from five bullets that tore through her body the previous afternoon, family spokesman Pastor Corey Brooks said.

Gang violence has fueled the bloodshed in Chicago, which ended 2012 with 506 homicides on the books even as overall crime took a downturn.

It was a gang turf war that led to another notorious slaying, the shooting of 15-year-old high-school majorette Hadiya Pendleton just days after she performed during President Obama's inauguration weekend.

The circumstances of Pendleton's death -- an honor student marked for death after she unwittingly set foot on gang territory -- made her a face of the national gun-control debate and sparked a local crime crackdown.

Guns dont kill people, gangs kill people.. Its about time we get rid of the gangsters...

Dan8267 says

Guns don't kill people. Four-year-olds do.

This makes me want to hurl.

Poor kid, he probably thought it was a toy. He'll be scarred for life.

I only glance at these stories because reading too much will make me want to blow off work and hug my kids all day.

Vicente says

I only glance at these stories because reading too much will make me want to blow off work and hug my kids all day.

There have been studies showing that households without guns are safer for children as the risk of children getting their hands on the guns are far greater than the risk of an armed intruder. However, I don't think that most gun lovers consider this fact.

Dan8267 says

Vicente says

I only glance at these stories because reading too much will make me want to blow off work and hug my kids all day.

There have been studies showing that households without guns are safer for children as the risk of children getting their hands on the guns are far greater than the risk of an armed intruder. However, I don't think that most gun lovers consider this fact.

Yes, and when one looks at the data from those studies the households where children are having gun accidents are also households where: police have visited for domestic issues, drugs/alcohol abuse, criminal activity, etc. When looking at "normal" households with responsible adults the incidents children having gun accidents is negligible.

We have discussed this before here:

leo707 says

Even with that said I think that any home with gun(s)+kids should be required to have any and all guns locked at all times when there is not an adult directly supervising. Because of my kids I do not currently keep any guns loaded and unlocked...

I think that every parent--during all the other giving birth/hospital discharge stuff--should be made plainly aware of the dangers of unlocked guns. In the piles of booklets and pamphlets there was all kinds of advice on child proofing, etc. I don't recall a single mention of guns, or anyone at the hospital mentioning guns. Our pediatrician did ask if when had guns and the conversation was about 5 seconds:

Pediatrician: "Do you have guns in the house?"

Us: "Yes."

Pediatrician: "Are they locked?"

Us: "Yes."

Pediatrician: "OK."

And that was all.

leo707 says

When looking at "normal" households with responsible adults the incidents children having gun accidents is negligible.

I don't have data either way on that, but I did find the following article to be convincing.

http://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2012/12/health-risk-having-gun-home

People are lousy at rationally and objectively evaluating risk. As emotion-driven machines, humans simply make all kinds of false assumptions when evaluating real world risk, especially in the modern age.

Dan8267 says

I don't have data either way on that, but I did find the following article to be convincing.

http://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2012/12/health-risk-having-gun-home

Thanks, when I have time later I will look more into it.

My quick look seems to confirm that the American Academy of Pediatrics seems to be sourcing study from the CDC on the topic. The original "you are 46 times more likely to kill yourself with a gun in your house than defend yourself" was a CDC study, and everything I have ever been able to read on it has indicated that they operate from the emotion-driven "guns are bad" position.

Also, this statement, "Having a gun in your home significantly increases your risk of death — and that of your spouse and children. And it doesn’t matter how the guns are stored or what type or how many guns you own." belies logic. How is it possible that someone who has a 12 gauge in a safe, with the ammo locked separately has the same chance their child is killed by the gun as a home with a dozen loaded handguns stashed around the house: between couch cushion, taped under the dining room table, bedside stand drawers, etc. That study I would be interested in tracking down.

leo707 says

And it doesn’t matter how the guns are stored or what type or how many guns you own." belies logic. How is it possible that someone who has a 12 gauge in a safe, with the ammo locked separately has the same chance their child is killed by the gun as a home with a dozen loaded handguns stashed around the house

I don't think that sentence means that. I think the author is saying, regardless of how carefully guns are stored, "having a gun in your home significantly increases your risk of death — and that of your spouse and children". Obviously, responsible management of the firearms decreases the chances of the child getting the gun, but a determined and curious 5-year-old boy is still going to try his damndest to get his grubby little fingers on that gun. The same holds true for daddy's porn and a thirteen-year-old boy. No matter how well daddy thinks he's hidden it. (Well, at least pre-Internet that was true.)

Dan8267 says

I don't think that sentence means that. I think the author is saying, regardless of how carefully guns are stored, "having a gun in your home significantly increases your risk of death — and that of your spouse and children".

Ah, yeah. OK.

Dan8267 says

Obviously, responsible management of the firearms decreases the chances of the child getting the gun, but a determined and curious 5-year-old boy is still going to try his damndest to get his grubby little fingers on that gun.

Even a highly motivated adult would have great difficulty getting to a gun in a safe. There only chance at it is if it is in transition, and in that case it should be in sight of an adult. Currently my guns rarely come out (they have been locked away for over a year now) and if they did they would be unloaded and within my sight at all times. I would guess the probability of one of my kids getting shot is somewhere bellow the chance that they get killed by being hit in the chest with a ball while playing little league.

That is not so say that I don't worry about either. I do worry about my kids and guns. That is why I am so paranoid about keeping them locked and/or watched. I would also not hesitate to bar my kids from playing at a house that kept unlocked guns.

I would be willing to bet that the .22 rifle the 4 year-old got a hold of was loaded, unlocked sitting in the back of a closet right at 4 year-old height.

leo707 says

Even a highly motivated adult would have great difficulty getting to a gun in a safe

Perhaps, but if I were your 13-year-old son and I thought there was porn in that safe, I think I would succeed in breaking into it. Again, they didn't have the Internet back when I was 13 and the Swimsuit Issue only comes out once a year.

The 13-year-old version of me could probably bang the safe open with his underutilized boners. Never underestimate the tenacity and free time of kids.

Dan8267 says

There have been studies showing that households without guns are safer for children as the risk of children getting their hands on the guns are far greater than the risk of an armed intruder. However, I don't think that most gun lovers consider this fact.

how do you explain when such events dont happen in say Switzerland where homeowners who serve in a militia have full auto assault weapons and some semi-automatic who have served in the past. based on your logic ... deaths should be 10x more than USA ?

thomaswong.1986 says

how do you explain when such events dont happen in say Switzerland where homeowners who serve in a militia have full auto assault weapons and some semi-automatic who have served in the past. based on your logic ... deaths should be 10x more than USA ?

Ah but they do happen:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256412/Swiss-village-shooting-Former-mental-health-patient-killed-3-women-questioned-Alps-massacre.html