patrick.net

This is a critical point overlooked by the lynch mob.

4 minutes to travel 40/50 yards. That gives insight into the kind of "innocent kid" TM really was.

Goran_K says

Trayvon had the chance to go home and live. He had a 4 minute gap where he could have just walked home and ignored Zimmerman. Instead he chose to lash out and took his life into his own hands.

SoftShell says

Without that statement, I doubt this case would have made national headlines. Just another senseless killing for whatever reason that can't be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

I agree. But even with that statement, GZ had context. It wasn't something he said out of the blue.

The neighborhood had been robbed numerous times by black suspects, some arrested, some who remained suspects. It's not like Zimmerman just decided that black people were going to be his target that night, it is a fact that black males had committed numerous robberies in the neighborhood, and the community was living in fear which is why GZ got the "watch" job in the first place.

SoftShell says

This is a critical point overlooked by the lynch mob.

4 minutes to travel 40/50 yards. That gives insight into the kind of "innocent kid" TM really was.

Yes. Of course, when you mention the 4 minute gap, or the fact that the media chose to use pictures of a 13 year old Trayvon, or the fact they used pictures that were over 7 years old of GZ that looked more "menacing", or just the simple fact that instead of going home, Trayvon kicked the shit out of Zimmerman breaking his nose, you get called a racist. Heck, let's not even bring up that the witness with the closest view point of the fight said he saw Trayvon on top punching Zimmerman out with MMA style ground and pound, and told Trayvon to get the fuck off of Zimmerman or he was going to call 911.

Basically in the mind of many Trayvon supporters, if you want to talk about things like that, you're a racist because... you know... Trayvon was an innocent kid who liked Skittles and iced tea... and... and... what if it was your son?

Blurtman says

There is no proof of that. You are fabricating stories out of thin air. You are creating stories to fit your biases. Mind your thoughts and emotions

Funny you should say that. That's what you do.

There is also no proof that Zimmerman did not provoke or instigate the fight. This is exactly the point where peoples racism comes in.

We know GZ considered TM a bad guy based on his looks, and we know he said "these assholes always get away." This is at least proof that GZ had motive or inclination to instigate, provoke, or start the fight.

But people bring their racist bias in, and only because of that believe that Martin attacked Zimmerman, which I know based on my experience with teenagers is extremely unlikely (that is a teen attacking an adult in this situation). It's because he's black (and many say a thug) that so many idiots believe this story.

THe story is so obviously bs from Zimmerman designed to keep him from prison, where they would do god knows what to the kind of guy that murders children.

Quigley says

The only reason this even went to trial is because the media and Sharpton got involved and even the POTUS got involved in overturning the decision of the police department not to charge GZ

That's not true. IT would be an easy manslaughter conviction, which is what the police chief of Sanford and lead investigator thought it should be, but the media frenzy made that more difficult than it would normally be.

Quigley says

Point is, don't attack people, even with your fists and feet, or they have a right to a vigorous defense!

Total bullshit. Why do you believe TM attacked Zimmerman ?

Let me guess. "darrr. There was a fight. Zimmerman says MArtin attacked him. Therefore it is a fact that MArtin attacked him ?"

If Zimmerman had a hard on for black people, he could have just shot one of the over half dozen black guys he reported for suspicious activity in the neighborhood in the 6 months before the Trayvon shooting.

Zimmerman being some "white" guy with a hard on for darkies was a media narrative created by race baiters like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

Goran_K says

Zimmerman being some "white" guy with a hard on for darkies was a media narrative created by race baiters like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

Are we talking about the same George "these assholes always get away" Zimmerman?

Media Portrayal of Trayvon (note: Trayvon is only 13 in this picture)

Trayvon at 17 (age when he was shot)

The media tried to sell a narrative, and for the most part, race baiters were able to rally black people around it and turn the whole thing into a Civil rights issue.

Funny that to you these pics are evidence of the opposite of what they show me.

I heard that he also liked hip hop.

marcus says

Are we talking about the same George "these assholes always get away" Zimmerman?

Why didn't Zimmerman just shoot any of the half dozen black guys he already previously reported and observed in the neighborhood? If you're theory is that Zimmerman is some "white guy" out for darkie blood, why did he wait for 6 months to finally get a taste?

Another problem I have is the "profiling" charge. The left would have you believe it was "racial profiling". Given GZ's responsibility as community watchdog, he should be executing "Hoodlum profiling".
All indications are that he was. He did not say "Those NI**&^s always get away with it", He used "assholes".

So it's pretty obvious he was "hoodlum profiling", which he should be doing.
But the left, guilt-ridden with the sins of their ancestors, needed to project 'race' into the situation to set it up so they then can carry the flag of 'anti-racism', thus assuaging their overwhelming sense of responsibility for the African Condition in this country.
Goran_K says

It's not like Zimmerman just decided that black people were going to be his target that night, it is a fact that black males had committed numerous robberies in the neighborhood, and the community was living in fear which is why GZ got the "watch" job in the first place

marcus says

Funny that to you these pics are evidence of the opposite of what they show me.

What about this picture found on Trayvon's phone of him brandishing his gun?

or this one?

Why don't they make t-shirts with artsy silhouettes of these images for Trayvon?

SoftShell says

So it's pretty obvious he was "hoodlum profiling", which he should be doing.

But the left, guilt-ridden with the sins of their ancestors, needed to project 'race' into the situation to set it up so they then can carry the flag of 'anti-racism', thus assuaging their overwhelming sense of responsibility for the African Condition in this country.

Bingo. I just wish people would stop throwing out the race card whenever a black person is involved in a crime. It's lazy, and irresponsible. Of course, if it wasn't for race baiting, guys like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton couldn't grand stand on TV, and bilk honest black people out of their hard earned money. It's sickening.

Goran_K says

Why didn't Zimmerman just shoot any of the half dozen black guys he already previously reported and observed in the neighborhood?

So your logic is that since Zimmerman didn't murder every black kid he ever saw, therefore he didn't murder Martin ?

Why did he observe them in the neighborhood, and phone in reports "suspicious of being black." Wtf ?

marcus says

Goran_K says

Why didn't Zimmerman just shoot any of the half dozen black guys he already previously reported and observed in the neighborhood?

So your logic is that since Zimmerman didn't murder every black kid he ever say, therefore he didn't murder Martin ?

Why did he observe them in the neighborhood, and phone in reports "suspicious of being black." Wtf ?

He didn't do that. He only gave a description of TM being black when specifically asked. The tapes were doctored to make them look like GZ was insinuating that TM was suspicious bc he was black. You don't have to like GZ, but labeling him a racist is laughable.

My point is, if he's some crazed racist white guy out for blood, why didn't he just take his blood in the 6 months before Trayvon? He had multiple opportunities to. The community was being robbed by black guys left and right.

What was different about Trayvon?

Maybe the fact that Trayvon sat on his chest, punched him over and over, until he broke Zimmerman's nose? No, that couldn't be it, right?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/24/justice/florida-teen-shooting

" George Zimmerman gave a scathing review of the Sanford Police Department and accused its chief of engaging in a cover-up during a public meeting in January 2011.
Zimmerman's anger stemmed from the case of Sherman Ware, a black homeless man who was beaten by the son of a white police lieutenant."

Nuff said.

mell says

He didn't do that. He only gave a description of TM being black when specifically asked. The tapes were doctored to make them look like GZ was insinuating that TM was suspicious bc he was black. You don't have to like GZ, but labeling him a racist is laughable.

Exactly. I bet another thing the race baiters don't even realize is that NBC fired 3 people including a producer for doctoring the 911 call to make Zimmerman sound like a racist. There's still a pending lawsuit against NBC for the deception as well.

From the photos and other sources, TM was into:
-guns
-pot smoking
-drinking
-grillz
-fighting
-hanging out with illiterate people

He sure sounds like the all-american boy to me... If you can't see that he was thuggish or a wanna-be thug, you are in denial. None of that makes it ok to kill him for no reason, but to ignore reality is absurd (and biased).

Goran_K says

What about this picture found on Trayvon's phone of him brandishing his gun?

THat's a pic of a gun in the hand of a black person. Maybe that was something he thought about ptutting on facebook to scare someone that was messing with him. OR maybe to project his image of thug which is basically urban fasion like long hair was in the 70s.

Have you even ever heard the expression "thug life."

As I previously mentioned, even members of the young republicans had long hair in 1974, and enjoyed rock music, and many even smoked weed, and enjoyed a lot of sex. But they weren't hippies.

marcus says

THat's a pic of a gun in the hand of a black person. Maybe that was something he thought about ptutting on facebook to scare someone that was messing with him. OR maybe to project his image of thug which is basically urban fasion like long hair was in the 70s.

Yeah, maybe he tried to bring that thug projection into real life by beating down a "creepy ass cracker". Maybe that "cracker" shot Trayvon in self defense. Maybe.

You idiots are so ignorant and closed minded. What's the point of my even trying to get through that thick wall.

Goran_K says

Yeah, maybe he tried to bring that thug projection into real life by beating down a "creepy ass cracker". Maybe that "cracker" shot Trayvon in self defense. Maybe.

Yes, that's where the reasonable doubt apparently comes from.

But only a dimbulb racist would confuse that with innocence.

Yeah, the same GZ whose job was to profile hoodlums.
Not African Americans.
The Hoodlums are the "assholes who always get away".

marcus says

Goran_K says

Zimmerman being some "white" guy with a hard on for darkies was a media narrative created by race baiters like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

Are we talking about the same George "these assholes always get away" Zimmerman?

So that's your lazy ass response?

You can't logically address the evidence and points being brought up, so your lazy ass response is to call everyone an idiot racist, and throw your hands in the air?

Would you even care about this issue if it was two white guys? Tell the truth Marcus.

marcus says

Yes, that's where the reasonable doubt apparently comes from.

So did Zimmerman just bash his own head into the cement, and crack his own nose crooked? That's the basis for your reasonable doubt?

You are correct.

marcus says

Goran_K says

What about this picture found on Trayvon's phone of him brandishing his gun?

THat's a pic of a gun in the hand of a black person.

Because deep down you know we are right. Your bias and guilt will not allow you to admit it. But you keep coming back for more, unconsciously hoping that someone will strike a chord that will allow you to come out of the darkness and into the light.

marcus says

You idiots are so ignorant and closed minded. What's the point of my even trying to get through that thick wall.

Goran_K says

Would you even care about this issue if it was two white guys? Tell the truth Marcus.

Again, what are you showing me here other than your bias? I probably wouldn't know about it, and I wouldn't have learned about it, if Martin wasn't black. Wtf. It wouldn't have happened. The kid would have gotten no attention what so ever from Zimmerman if he wasn't black.

You have showed repeatedly that you agree with Zimmerman's opinion that Martin looked suspicious. You want to deny that it's becuase he's black that this whole thing happened.

You want to deny that you believe Zimmerman's story, becasue Martin was black.

You want to tell me that this looks like a menacing dangerous kid. (imagine him alive).

http://gawker.com/this-courtesy-of-msnbc-is-trayvon-martins-dead-body-753370712

Yes, I think you are out of touch with urban teenagers and make rediculous assumplions based on the looks of the kid. This post is the best proof of that you've given.

Goran_K says

What about this picture found

I've got to go.

marcus says

I probably wouldn't know about it, and I wouldn't have learned about it, if Martin wasn't black.

Damn I'm good.

Goran_K says

So that's your lazy ass response?

You can't logically address the evidence and points being brought up, so your lazy ass response is to call everyone an idiot racist, and throw your hands in the air?

I'm beginning to think Marcus is not as smart as he thinks he is, and when he is stuck defending an indefensible position, he resorts to name calling, specifically "racist" or "idiot."

Goran_K says

So did Zimmerman just bash his own head into the cement, and crack his own nose crooked? That's the basis for your reasonable doubt?

What reasonable doubt?

I don't have reasonable doubt. I think that it's EXTREMELY likely that Zimmerman provoked the fight. Apparently in you're cognitivley challenged mind, the fact that Martin was winning the fight, somehow also proves that he started it (that is that he just attacked Zimmerman out of the blue).

ch_tah2 says

I'm beginning to think Marcus is not as smart as he thinks he is, and when he is stuck defending an indefensible position, he resorts to name calling, specifically "racist" or "idiot."

THis goes nowhere. It's not like anything I say is given any consideration. And yes sometimes when someone calls someone an idiot or racist in an argument it's just a tactic, or all they've got.

In other cases, they really are dealing with ignorant racists, and it's worth mentioning exactly the points at which their ignorance or racism is being displayed.

ch_tah2 says

I'm beginning to think Marcus is not as smart as he thinks he is, and when he is stuck defending an indefensible position, he resorts to name calling, specifically "racist" or "idiot."

I've seen it on social media unfortunately.

Let's face it, the only people on Facebook even making any real comments about Trayvon are black people, or race baiters.

White people are terrified of giving a public response with their own name and identity attached to it. Because as soon as they say something like, "Well, the verdict was correct because the prosecution didn't prove their case", you will have at least 4-5 black people and a few race baiters calling that person any number of dirty things:

(from my actual facebook feed)
- Racist!
- You sound like an idiot *******!!!
- You're ignorant, racist!

If you're actually a minority, and have multi-ethnic kids:

(from my actual facebook feed)
- You're the new racist! Someone who never contributed to civil rights or fought for those rights that BLACK people won for you. Enjoy your civil rights!

Martin Luther King Jr would shake his head at these people.

marcus says

OR maybe to project his image of thug which is basically urban fasion like long hair was in the 70s.

One final point. I'm not saying this is a good thing, or even that it's surprising that some are so out of touch and ignorant about our current teen culture.

But Zimmerman should have known better.

By the way Zimmerman was a speed addict (possibly cocaine too ? same family of drugs). Notice how he fattened up when he got off the speed drugs?

Just an observation, somewhat unrelated to our discussion.

marcus says

I don't have reasonable doubt. I think that it's EXTREMELY likely that Zimmerman provoked the fight. Apparently in you're cognitivley challenged mind, the fact that Martin was winning the fight, somehow also proves that he started it (that is that he just attacked Zimmerman out of the blue).

Can't prove it. It's just as likely that Trayvon confronted a Zimmerman who was walking back to his car. You're imagining things that may or may not have happened. Why don't you just stick to facts?

We do know that Trayvon broke Zimmerman's nose, and was on top of Zimmerman punching his lights out while Zimmerman called for help. That's straight from eye witness testimony, in fact the guy who was closest to the fight and had the best view point out of all 8 witnesses called into the court. The guy even told Trayvon to get the fuck off Zimmerman or he was going to call 911. Trayvon didn't listen and kept punching, so the guy left to go upstairs to his condo, and THEN heard the gunshot pop.

But I notice you NEVER talk about what that witness saw with his own eyes. You'd rather stick to dreaming up fantasies where Zimmerman does an Aikido move on Trayvon to subdue him. Are you kidding me man?

Agreed, I am noticing the same. I have gotten some flak, and I notice that those of my FB friends who do not think along the popular faux outrage line are eerily silent, while those of my FB friends who like to participate in the frenzy are just lashing out with such well thought-out quips as: "All republicans are racists!" ;)

marcus says

THis goes nowhere. It's not like anything I say is given any consideration. And yes sometimes when someone calls someone an idiot or racist in an argument it's just a tactic, or all they've got.

In other cases, they really are dealing with ignorant racists, and it's worth mentioning exactly the points at which their ignorance or racism is being displayed.

Of the two choices you presented, it seems like this situation is you using name-calling as a tactic because it's all you've got.

Can you point to any specific items that prove racism on the part of the posters on here or are you just making it up or making assumptions about them because they disagree with you?

To get out of the car and try to locate a possible hoodlum?
Yes, he should have known better.

To be convicted of 2nd degree murder or manslaughter with the only facts available being in his favor, just to satisfy the angry mob? No.

marcus says

But Zimmerman should have known better.

mell says

Agreed, I am noticing the same. I have gotten some flak, and I notice that those of my FB friends who do not think along the popular faux outrage line is eerily silent, while those of my FB friends who like to participate in the frenzy are just lashing out with such well-though out quips as: "All republicans are racists!" ;)

Another one posted by a black friend of mine:

Why are so many people surprised that laws that were made for the advantage of Hetero White Males has protected and advanced the Hetero White male?

Trayvon wast the first, the fiftieth or the thousandth - and he will NOT be the last . . . Eff a conversation - what are we going to DO about it?

White person responds: "Umm... Zimmerman isn't white?"

Response: "neither was the house nig***!"

I hope black people realize this militant, almost illogical, racist overtone to their reaction of the trial is possibly driving away sentiment from their cause, and probably moving their plight backwards in the U.S. I personally know people who were sympathetic to black americans, and what they go through in the U.S, and wanted to engage in that conversation. Now, that's changing because of the outright ignorance coming from some in that community.