patrick.net

Yeah, I guess those two are totally the same.

Both cases -victims dead. Defense says whatever they want and get away. Nobody to refute them.

If Nicole managed to survive or Martin-the outcome would be different. No wonder there is that old saying,"Dead men tell no tales." or in this case dead women or dead kids.

lol

I love the reaction of black people to OJ getting acquitted:
http://www.youtube.com/embed/J7CgWtpoNL0

No riots, no protest, just all out pure joy and ecstasy. Loud cheering, jumping around with fist pumping in the air.

Goran_K says

lol

Well, maybe to you this is funny-fine.

Goran_K says

I love the reaction of black people to OJ getting acquitted:

No riots, no protest, just all out pure joy and ecstasy. Loud cheering, jumping around with fist pumping in the air.

Unlike you, I don't base my judgement on an entire race based on what a segment of the population does. There is a segment of white people who have been cheering this verdict-so, that doesn't define all white people.

Yousa trolling!

lostand confused says

Unlike you, I don't base my judgement on an entire race based on what a segment of the population does. There is a segment of white people who have been cheering this verdict-so, that doesn't define all white people.

No justice, no peace! No justice, no peace!!!

I'm not making any comment about black people as a whole. I just find it peculiar in one trial, black people are jumping for joy!

and for the other trial, they are conducting nationwide protest, beating up journalist in Oakland, and throwing cement blocks at police in Los Angeles.

Why the stark difference?

Goran_K says

I'm not making any comment about black people as a whole. I just find it
peculiar in one trial, black people are jumping for joy!

Umm.Goran_K says

I love the reaction of black people to OJ getting acquitted:

No riots, no protest, just all out pure joy and ecstasy. Loud cheering, jumping around with fist pumping in the air.

Make up your mind

Goran_K says

I just find it peculiar in one trial

What I find peculiar is that two trials-jury acquitted both. You find one to be guilty and the other innocent. Now in your wordsGoran_K says

Why the stark difference?

Because in OJ's trial (I was still in college at the time), the evidence was overwhelming in favor of OJ's guilt. His freaking blood was found next to Nicole's dead body for crying out loud, and he had multiple cuts on his hands.

In Zimmerman's case, the eye witness testimony, and other evidence (such as Zimmerman's injuries), supported Zimmerman's claim of self defense.

Also I never said "all black people" reacted the same, I said black people, as in those in the video I posted. They seemed to be genuinely filled with joy that OJ was found innocent. You can even see where two black guys are jumping up and down for joy pumping their fist in the middle of the video.

Yet for the Zimmerman trial verdict, all the black people I've seen from friend's videos in NYC, LA, and other major cities seem to be causing public unrest, with angry demonstrations, some of them turning violent.

Why?

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

New Renter says

Ironic yes but it begs the question: Why does anyone care WHAT this woman says or does?

Tell me when there is a sex tape of her and a donkey.

I think you mean jackass:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackass

Goran_K says

Because in OJ's trial (I was still in college at the time), the evidence was overwhelming in favor of OJ's guilt. His freaking blood was found next to Nicole's dead body for crying out loud, and he had multiple cuts on his hands.

Yes.

Goran_K says

In Zimmerman's case, the eye witness testimony, and other evidence (such as Zimmerman's injuries), supported Zimmerman's claim of self defense.

Sure, enough for reasonable doubt.

Goran_K says

They seemed to be genuinely filled with joy that OJ was found innocent. You can even see where two black guys are jumping up and down for joy pumping their fist in the middle of the video.

There are always people, that in spite of evidence to the contrary, will think someone is innocent. I don't think that the people on the clip are cheering because they think that a murderer got away with it. American history is full of blacks who have been convicted on evidence a lot thinner than the evidence against Zimmerman. There is understandably a strong distrust in the police and the system. I think that they are cheering because they believe that a black man has received "justice."

Zimmerman had an excellent defense, it would be nice if everyone accused of a crime had that good of a defense. Had he been assigned an overworked public defender I could easily have seen him found guilty for manslaughter.

Goran_K says

Yet for the Zimmerman trial verdict, all the black people I've seen from friend's videos in NYC, LA, and other major cities seem to be causing public unrest, with angry demonstrations, some of them turning violent.

Why?

To be fair there are whites in those crowds as well -- I have not seen your friends video's but at least in Oakland there are.

Because just like the people who automatically have condemned Trayvon on thin evidence, those that are demonstrating condemned Zimmerman. They have little trust in the system and don't understand things like "reasonable doubt", and how thinking that someone is probably guilty does not clear legal hurdles for guilt.

Goran_K says

In Zimmerman's case, the eye witness testimony, and other evidence (such as
Zimmerman's injuries), supported Zimmerman's claim of self defense.

In Zimmerman's case , Zimmerman saw martin and followed him. Martin did not follow Zimmerman.

Zimmerman called 9/11 to report Martin-no where in that converstaion does he say he is afraid of martin or that Martin was threatening. Now Martin tried to escape from Zimemrman and almost lost him. Zimmerman had ample opportunity to back off-but chose not to. His choice.

Now what happened next-that nobody knows-because Zimmerman admitted to killing Martin. Did Martin jump Zimmerman or did Zimmerman corner Martin and a fight broke out-nobody knows. Only one version was heard in court-the killer's. Yes there were witnesses who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman down-but his injuries are just cuts and even he refused to go to the hospital. That is not a helpless man who was bashed into a concrete pavement within an inch of his life.

Martin actively tried to get away -that is not in question. Zimmerman was the one following him-that is not in question either. So your point is that if you follow a strange kid around, Kid runs away, you still follow and then end up ina fight and got scared-you can kill said kid???

Zimmerman's choice-not Martin's. Martin did not chose to be followed by Zimmerman -he tried to evade. The rest is the testimony of the one who killed him-facing a sentence of life in prison.

Zimmerman had no authority, was not in uniform-did not have any right to detain anyone. The first thing most people teach kids-is not to talk to strangers. The only person who had something to fear is Martin who saw a strange man following him. He was the one who tried to lose him and he paid with his life anyways.

lostand confused says

Martin actively tried to get away -that is not in question.

I'd say that is very much in question. In fact it was a key piece of the defense narrative that Trayvon had a 4 minute gap to get home, tell his dad "some creepy ass cracker" was stalking him, and then get the police to settle it.

Not only that, even when Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman beating the living daylights out of him, he had a chance to stop the fight as John Good arrived on the scene telling them to "cut it out" or he would call the cops. So Trayvon not only had one out, he got TWO outs that he could have taken to get out of this situation.

That didn't happen, and the jurors wondered why. I have no doubt it had a huge effect on their final verdict.

Goran_K says

I'd say that is very much in question. In fact it was a key piece of the defense
narrative that Trayvon had a 4 minute gap to get home, tell his dad "some creepy
ass cracker" was stalking him, and then get the police to settle it.

Zimmerman admitted he lost Martin and then still pursued him. Martinw as not pursuing Zimmerman.
Goran_K says

Not only that, even when Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman beating the living
daylights out of him

Zimmerman had a few cuts-he refused hospitalization. That is not beating the living daylights out of someone.
Goran_K says

So Trayvon not only had one out, he got TWO outs that he could have taken to get
out of this situation.

This is because the kid is dead. What happened-did Zimmerman pursue him and block him and he took other turns-who knows. The man who pursued the kid despite 911 operator asking him not to is saying Martin initiated the fight and this poor MMA trained guy was just a victim. Well Martin escaped from Zimemrman once-that we all know-Zimmerman acknowledges that and wants to go after him. He did. Yes there is a gap-but the kid is dead and we only have the killer's version of what happened/didn't happen in that gap.

to put things in perspective, many whites had bought the same type of verdict he bought.

the only reason his case was a big deal because he was the only black who could ever afforded it.

lostand confused says

Martinw as not pursuing Zimmerman.

You don't know that. lostand confused says

Zimmerman had a few cuts-he refused hospitalization. That is not beating the living daylights out of someone.

Exhibit A:

Goran_K says

lostand confused says

Martinw as not pursuing Zimmerman.

You don't know that. lostand confused says

Zimmerman had a few cuts-he refused hospitalization. That is not beating the living daylights out of someone.

Exhibit A:

Actually Zimmerman did-because he told the 911 operator that. He lost Martin and he was going to go after him-they asked him to stop-he went anyway.

That is two scratches/cuts from which blood is flowing . He refused hospitaliztion, he did not even need treatment for that and yet you claim Martin was beating the living daylights out of him . Really????

Exhibit A should be Martin's corpse- a dead boy who never got to be an adult and make choices-all because an overzeoulous armed thug decided not to let these punks get away.

Goran_K says

Exhibit A:

Expert opinion of exhibit A:
"[Wounds on Zimmerman’s head and face]...consistent with one strike, two injuries at one time...The injuries were not life-threatening...very insignificant.”
-Dr. Valerie Rao
(Dr. Rao did admit that Zimmerman could have been punched as many as 4 times, but she did not think that was the case)

De La Rionda: Did you feel he exaggerated the manner in which he was hit?
Serino: Yes, sir,
-Chris Serino, the lead investigator

-and here is a bit of Zimmerman's expert on the topic (emphasis mine):

DE LA RIONDA: But you did review the fire rescue report regarding the treatment of George Zimmerman, correct?

DI MAIO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And when it says patient has a GCS of 15, what does that mean?

DI MAIO: Oh, that's the Glasgow index thing.

DE LA RIONDA: And what does that indicate to you, sir?

DI MAIO: Oh, it means that he's perfectly fine.

leo707 says

Expert opinion of exhibit A:

Ah, ha, funny how my last post got a "dislike."

I guess someone hates it when the evidence presented by experts at the trial does not align with what they imagined happened that night.

The big question is, why do they hate the American legal system so much?

lostand confused says

should be Martin's corpse- a dead boy who never got to be an adult and make choices-all because an overzeoulous armed thug decided not to let these punks get away.

Or someone who was shot in self defense as a Jury decided.

The system works.

The big question is, why do they hate the American legal system so much?

That's the big question? Seriously? I can think of infinite reasons anyone would hate the american injustice system.

The big question is, why do people waste so much time pontificating about crap that they don't have any perspective on, and holds no bearing to their lives

Id place a large wager with some hefty juice that the majority of the people bickering on the internet about this case, never interact with 17 y.o. black american males, and an even bigger wager that the majority of people arguing about the what ifs of the fight, have NEVER been anywhere near a strret fight let alone participated

New Renter says

Ironic yes but it begs the question: Why does anyone care WHAT this woman says or does?

Hey, it's Kim Khardashian, the umm, err....why is she famous exactly?

The system works

Lolololololol

Oh fucking dear

Goran_K says

Yeah her father managed to get a killer off the hook, with race the focal point of the trial. Nevermind Nicole Simpson's nearly decapitated head courtesy of OJ.

The race baiters are simply trying to ruin the justice system,

This guy has to be the stupidest person commenting on this forum.

Troll tactic 101: When you have no valid points to bring to the table, resort to personal insults.

marcus says

Goran_K says

Yeah her father managed to get a killer off the hook, with race the focal point of the trial. Nevermind Nicole Simpson's nearly decapitated head courtesy of OJ.

The race baiters are simply trying to ruin the justice system,

This guy has to be the stupidest person commenting on this forum.

Oh, come now marcus, Goran is not stupid. Sure I disagree with him on some points with this issue, but I understand why he is coming to his conclusions. There is a reasoning behind it.

And there are actual stupid, entirely unreasonable, people who do comment on this forum.

Goran_K says

Troll tactic 101: When you have no valid points to bring to the table, resort to personal insults.

I wasn't even talking to you. Just sharing an observation with those reading this thread.

Goran_K says

lostand confused says

should be Martin's corpse- a dead boy who never got to be an adult and make choices-all because an overzeoulous armed thug decided not to let these punks get away.

Or someone who was shot in self defense as a Jury decided.

The system works.

I agree that the system did work here, but that does not mean that Zim is innocent. I just means that a man did not get convicted on weak evidence. Apparently half the jury thought he should have been guilty of something, but when faced with the realities of the law they had no choice but to set him free.

We can't convict and send people to prison because we are "pretty sure" they did it. We have to let guilty people if the proof is not there. What is unfortunate is that not everyone gets the same quality of defense that Zim got. Many people have been convicted on far less evidence than was against Zim.

marcus says

Goran_K says

Troll tactic 101: When you have no valid points to bring to the table, resort to personal insults.

I wasn't even talking to you. Just sharing an observation with those reading this thread.

You weren't personally insulting me by quoting my post and saying "This guy has to be the stupidest person commenting on this forum"?

Oook.

leo707 says

I agree that the system did work here, but that does not mean that Zim is innocent. I just means that a man did not get convicted on weak evidence. Apparently half the jury thought he should have been guilty of something, but when faced with the realities of the law they had no choice but to set him free.

We can't convict and send people to prison because we are "pretty sure" they did it. We have to let guilty people if the proof is not there. What is unfortunate is that not everyone gets the same quality of defense that Zim got. Many people have been convicted on far less evidence than was against Zim.

That's what I meant, whether you believe Zimmerman initiated the fight or Trayvon did, the evidence present could not possibly be used to convict Zimmerman of 2nd degree murder, and even manslaughter apparently (I thought Zimmerman might get caught on that one the day before the verdict).

I have no problem with OJ and Zimmerman getting off. I do believe OJ guilty, and Zimmerman innocent, but both of them getting acquitted preserved the integrity of the justice system when it comes down to it.

leo707 says

There is a reasoning behind it.

Really ?

Goran_k says

The race baiters are simply trying to ruin the justice system,

Are those that think race was the reason Zimmerman concluded that Martin was as "asshole that was getting away," race baiting?

And even if they are (they aren't), is their motive that they are trying to ruin out justice system ?

I'm impressed if you can actually understand that kind of convoluted thinking.

marcus says

Goran_K says

Troll tactic 101: When you have no valid points to bring to the table, resort to personal insults.

I wasn't even talking to you. Just sharing an observation with those reading this thread.

You can't expect to share an offensive "observation" about someone on a public forum and not have them respond.

Marcus I often like your contributions to a conversation, and agree with a lot of what you have to say. But, for some reason you seem to often end up in incredibly vitriolic exchanges with others.

Umm...*er*, that is my observation to share.

leo707 says

You can't expect to share an offensive "observation" about someone on a public forum and not have them respond.

I didn't.

I just felt like it needed to be said.

marcus says

leo707 says

There is a reasoning behind it.

Really ?

Yes.

marcus says

Are those that think race was the reason Zimmerman concluded that Martin was as "asshole that was getting away," race baiting?

No, they are just flat out racist and projecting internal feelings.

But trying to turn a self defense case into a civil rights incident is in fact an attempt to pervert the justice system IMO.

They need to release OJ so he can slaughter Zimmerman like a dog, then get off again in another media circus.

Never too many media circuses for the so called justice system, just need the chumps to feed the beast.

Goran_K says

marcus says

Are those that think race was the reason Zimmerman concluded that Martin was as "asshole that was getting away," race baiting?

No, they are just flat out racist and projecting internal feelings.

But trying to turn a self defense case into a civil rights incident is in fact an attempt to pervert the justice system IMO.

Exactly. And the reason Marcus can arrive at these opinions is because he is himself a racist. He is in tune with young black men. He said so himself. Only a racist could make such a statement.

Marcus, what happened in your life to make you a racist. Ill go all wimpy lib here....Marcus, we want to help you. First you have to help us understand. Why are you racist?