patrick.net

What are "para metrics"??
Are you related to Roberto??

leo707 says

No one other than Zimmerman, and Zimmerman-apologists view(ed) Zim's injuries as anything significant.

Not his expert witness, not the prosecutions expert witness, not the para metrics at the scene,

Goran_K says

CL says

What were the extent of his wounds again? A broken nose? That's a punch.

Lacerations? Please. I got worse in my wrestling and judo days. Never shot a kid, either.

But, from the Defense's point of view they had to establish his "fear", don't you agree?

You mean you got worse in your dojo, with mats, and where your training partners were "practicing" moves on you?

You think training partners practicing moves on you in a controlled environment is the same as a violent street encounter?

You're kidding me right?

You prove my point. I got WORSE in a controlled environment, with mats, pads, headgear and professionals. If that is the extent of his phony injuries, there wasn't much of a brawl.

If I wrestled on concrete, there would be broken bones of the fatal kind you guys describe. This was a scuffle.

Call it Crazy says

leo707 says

People have successfully used stand your ground as a defense when having shot people in the back who were walking away.

But, to remind you once again... Stand Your Ground was NOT part of Zim's defense...

Correct, Stand Your Ground was not argued by Zimmerman's defense team.

This does not matter...

Stand Your Ground is part of Florida law, and the jury must take it into account when coming to a decision. In fact if one was to look at the jury instructions they would see that the Stand Your Ground law is included.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/zimmerman-final-jury-instructions/
"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."
-Zimmerman Trial: Jury Instructions

SoftShell says

What are "para metrics"??

Para-metrics are a CSI rapid response team. They parachute into a crime scene then measure and record all evidence before it degrades.

I hope this clears things up for you!

SoftShell says

Are you related to Roberto??

No, why? Does he know a lot about crime scene procedure as well?

lol

CL claims he gets worse than broken noses and gashes on his scalp practicing judo moves on a padded mat. Judo stands for the gentle way, maybe you and your training partners don't know what the heck you guys are doing. So yes that is dangerous when you have amateurs acting like idiots.

Correct.
And you get more internal cerebrum shock shots slamming ones head down on cement. Not too much visual damage on the outside, cerebral hemmorage resulting in death on the inside if repeated enough times.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

CL says

If I wrestled on concrete, there would be broken bones of the fatal kind you guys describe. This was a scuffle.

Right on. You get more blood just biting into someone's head or kicking their face.

Actually it clouds the issue even more, as there is not enough room for them to parachute to the scene, what with the buildings and accompanying power lines interfering with the projected landing path.

Kinda makes your assertion highly dubious....

leo707 says

SoftShell says

What are "para metrics"??

Para-metrics are a CSI rapid response team. They parachute into a crime scene then measure and record all evidence before it degrades.

I hope this clears things up for you!

Kinda like the unions driving us all into Obamacare, only to now line up to 'save us' after the fact...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/12/electrical-workers-union-jumps-aboard-anti-obamaca/

sounds like a
APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

There is no proof that Zimtard didn't drive this guy off the road before he 'saved' him.

Well, if he stalked Matin, Zimmy is in a heap of trouble....

https://www.facebook.com/matin.perlis

marcus says

Call it Crazy says

Also, calling someone an "asshole who always gets away" isn't legal grounds for getting the crap beat out of you...

No it just lends credence to the idea that Zimmerman stalked Matin thinking he was a bad guy

SoftShell says

Correct.

And you get more internal cerebrum shock shots slamming ones head down on cement. Not too much visual damage on the outside, cerebral hemmorage resulting in death on the inside if repeated enough times.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

CL says

If I wrestled on concrete, there would be broken bones of the fatal kind you guys describe. This was a scuffle.

Right on. You get more blood just biting into someone's head or kicking their face.

Again, the rightwingers prove that they will give anyone who kills a black citizen the benefit of the doubt.

There IS a presumption of innocence, but why doesn't a black victim get the same? Why would you blame the victim so often, yet exonerate the killer?

And I'll bet you did the same with Oscar Grant.

The bolded portion of your post contradicts itself.

The black victim did "get the same". A trial was held and a jury gave an impartial verdict.

CL says

Again, the rightwingers prove that they will give anyone who kills a black citizen the benefit of the doubt.

There IS a presumption of innocence, but why doesn't a black victim get the same? Why would you blame the victim so often, yet exonerate the killer?

The sad part is, the people who were pulled from the wreck wanted to publicly thank him, but feared a vile tongue lashing from Obama.
They worried he would sick the hoodie army on them.

leo707 says

Oh, another interesting side note to this is that if everyone who was at the
receiving end of an aggravated assault by "personal weapons" used that as a
justification to kill there would have been an additional 172,931 "justifiable"
homicides in 2011.

um, is it not possible that all violent attacks would reduce a whole bunch if the results were more dead attackers and less dead victims? In my world that is why every able bodied adult should carry a loaded firearm at all times in public, have one in the truck too, and serveral at the house. Then, "aggrivated assulters" might get the hint. Maybe.

Even the TM, GZ issue would have went differently. If both men knew there was a very good chance that they were both armed, then there would have been a much more respectful interaction. As it went down, TM was counting on GZ not being able to defend the attack (an attack promped by fill-in-blank). GZ was not "wanting" to use his weapon for defense, he was "willing" to use his weapon for defense.

SoftShell says

The black victim did "get the same". A trial was held and a jury gave an impartial verdict.

What are you talking about?

CL says

There IS a presumption of innocence, but why doesn't a black victim get the same? Why would you blame the victim so often, yet exonerate the killer?

Yes, this has been my big issue with the one-sided assumptions about Trayvon Martin. Some seem to want to paint his as a vicious street thug waiting for an opportunity to kill. But, alas, Trayvon will never have his chance to be found "not guilty", due to lack of evidence and crappy Florida State law.

Yes, there were those on the jury that felt Zimmerman is guilty of murder, but due to the law and lack of evidence were unable to come back with a guilty verdict.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/Juror-says-she-owes-Martin-s-parents-apology-4686881.php

"[Juror B29] feels George Zimmerman got away with murder for fatally shooting Trayvon Martin, but that there wasn't enough evidence at trial to convict him under Florida law.
* * * * *
'I was the juror that was going to give them a hung jury,' she said. 'I fought to the end.'

But by the second day of deliberating, [Juror B29] realized there wasn't enough proof to convict the 29-year-old neighborhood watch volunteer of a crime.

'George Zimmerman got away with murder, but you can't get away from God,' [Juror B29] said. 'And at the end of the day, he's going to have a lot of questions and answers he has to deal with.'"

Yes, the system "worked", even if we are "pretty sure" that someone is guilty they have to be cut loose. Unfortunately, it often takes money in-order to plant enough doubt in a jury and many people are convicted with far less evidence that was stacked against Zimmerman.

CL implies in

quote#1: that rightwingers gave zimmerman the benefit of the doubt because he shot a black person.

quote#2: that the accused has "a presumption of innocence".

If the accused has the presumption of innocence by Joe Public, how is that further distilled down to quote#1? Joe Public gives zimmerman the benefit of the doubt, not just the 'rightwingers', because that is the law. Innocent until proven guilty.

As far as "why doesn't the black victim get the same?", Joe Public never accused Trayvon Martin of anything. I don't see the connection.

CL says

Again, the rightwingers prove that they will give anyone who kills a black citizen the benefit of the doubt.

CL says

There IS a presumption of innocence, but why doesn't a black victim get the same?

I'm not so sure about that.
Given the uproar after the trial, I think some jurors may feel intimidated and in fear of physical harm, and may not be admitting their true feelings about the innocence of George.

leo707 says

Yes, there were those on the jury that felt Zimmerman is guilty of murder, but due to the law and lack of evidence were unable to come back with a guilty verdict.

leo707 says

Yes, there were those on the jury that felt Zimmerman is guilty of murder, but due to the law and lack of evidence were unable to come back with a guilty verdict.

Far too many comments on news websites about this trial from people with African sounding names or Africans in their avatars show that blacks have horrible logic and reasoning skills. This juror is no exception.

She knows her identity would get out eventually and is doing damage control with the black community to try to show that she's not at fault, hoping their spare her.

She "knows" GZ is guilty, yet there's wasn't enough evidence to convict is doubletalk and shows her mind was already made up before the start of the trial.

SoftShell says

I'm not so sure about that.

I am, juror B29 said so in an interview...

leo707 says

[Juror B29] feels George Zimmerman got away with murder for fatally shooting Trayvon Martin

...However...

leo707 says

but that there wasn't enough evidence at trial to convict him under Florida law.

SoftShell says

Given the uproar after the trial, I think some jurors may feel intimidated and in fear of physical harm, and may not be admitting their true feelings about the innocence of George.

Even juror B37 (the first juror to be interviewed), said someone wanted a 2nd degree murder conviction initially. And, that was when B37 was planning on writing a book about the trial. I do think that the book idea was axed after she realized the degree of uproar. (you also know that after her statement that the other jurors made it clear that B37 did not speak for them, right?)

But, please feel free to ignore anything you need to in order to maintain your preconceived notions about Zimmerman, Trayvon and the US justice system. We certainly would not want new data to adjust your views.

SoftShell says

Given the uproar after the trial, I think some jurors may feel intimidated and in fear of physical harm, and may not be admitting their true feelings about the innocence of George.

leo707 says

SoftShell says

I'm not so sure about that.

I am, juror B29 said so in an interview...

SoftShell says

Actually it clouds the issue even more, as there is not enough room for them to parachute to the scene, what with the buildings and accompanying power lines interfering with the projected landing path.

Kinda makes your assertion highly dubious....

leo707 says

SoftShell says

What are "para metrics"??

Para-metrics are a CSI rapid response team. They parachute into a crime scene then measure and record all evidence before it degrades.

I hope this clears things up for you!

Sorry! I can't maintain this ruse, the guilt is eating me alive!

It was a typo I meant to say "paramedics."

I hope you can forgive my deception...

Not ignoring it.
But the intimidation factor remains.
Would you want a whole race of people mad at you because you thought the guy was innocent?
It's no skin off her ass to tell the mob what they want to hear now...

leo707 says

But, please feel free to ignore anything you need to in order to maintain your preconceived notions about Zimmerman, Trayvon and the US justice system. We certainly would not want new data to adjust your views

I know...I know.
It's Roberta's fault for turning me into a nit-picking punctuation prick.

leo707 says

Sorry! I can't maintain this ruse, the guilt is eating me alive!

It was a typo I meant to say "paramedics."

I hope you can forgive my deception...

Something for people to chew on:

She said she doubted that the case should have been brought to trial, calling it a “publicity stunt.” But once it was, she said, the lack of evidence and Florida law left the jury no choice but to acquit.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-juror-b29-20130725,0,3330582.story

I don't understand this woman. She thinks he got away with murder, but the case shouldn't have been brought to trial, and it was a publicity stunt...

SoftShell says

Not ignoring it.

But the intimidation factor remains.

Would you want a whole race of people mad at you because you thought the guy was innocent?

It's no skin off her ass to tell the mob what they want to hear now...

I think that makes the most sense. To me, the truth is that she didn't think it should have even gone to trial (although I disagree with her on that point). To cover her butt, she said what she felt people wanted to hear.

SoftShell says

Not ignoring it.

But the intimidation factor remains.

Would you want a whole race of people mad at you because you thought the guy was innocent?

It's no skin off her ass to tell the mob what they want to hear now...

I would believe this to be the case if her story was not already consistent with what was said by Juror B37, who at the time of here interview did not realize all the implications of the ruling.

Hey, and that is the way it should be. A jury should make decisions regardless of what the mob wants and feels.

I don't think that justice was served by the verdict, but that said if I was sitting on the Jury I may have come to the same conclusion. If there is a law on the books that allows for people to kill others by shooting them in the back as they walk away, or frees gang members after a kill because it can not be determined who shot first then as a juror your hands are tied. If I had realized what people get away with under Stand Your Ground laws, I would have put much a higher chance that Zim would get acquitted.

Ideally the law dispenses justice most of the time, but there will always be judgements where justice is not served. Well, until our robot overlords come to power...

require video cameras on all guns. they are small enough now to not interfere with the shooting process.
you would have to put your pistol in it's charger at night, just like a phone.
and the camera starts automatically whenever it comes out of the holster..
Just think of the upgrade market!

leo707 says

Well, until our robot overlords come to power...

If Martin was overpowering Zimmerman, and Martin knew that Zimmerman had a gun.

How did Martin get shot through the heart?

Its unknown that martin knew zimmerman had a gun...zimmy said martin was reaching for it, but that was zimmy's perception. It could have been wrong after taking the head to the concrete...

StillLooking says

If Martin was overpowering Zimmerman, and Martin knew that Zimmerman had a gun.

How did Martin get shot through the heart?

You mean Zimmerman's perception was wrong? Who would have thunk it?

SoftShell says

Its unknown that martin knew zimmerman had a gun...zimmy said martin was reaching for it, but that was zimmy's perception. It could have been wrong after taking the head to the concrete...

StillLooking says

If Martin was overpowering Zimmerman, and Martin knew that Zimmerman had a gun.

How did Martin get shot through the heart?

it's a good thing that silly mother of 8 didn't get to hear all the liberal tilt to the case before casting her vote, huh?

Call it Crazy says

Well, maybe we should throw away the whole legal system, laws, courts, lawyers, ect. and just move to a system that uses Emotions to make a ruling of guilty or innocent.

You'd like to have any legal matter against you decided on Emotions instead of law, wouldn't you??

I am surprised that you feel that way (well, I am not surprised about you letting your emotions rule your decision making process).

As for what I would like, you may have missed this part of my post:
leo707 says

Hey, and that is the way it should be. A jury should make decisions regardless of what the mob wants and feels.

I don't think that justice was served by the verdict, but that said if I was sitting on the Jury I may have come to the same conclusion....

Ideally the law dispenses justice most of the time, but there will always be judgements where justice is not served.

Call it Crazy says

Well, maybe we should throw away the whole legal system, laws, courts, lawyers, ect. and just move to a system that uses Emotions to make a ruling of guilty or innocent.

You'd like to have any legal matter against you decided on Emotions instead of law, wouldn't you??

And, yes clearly our only two choices are the current code of laws, or no law at all.

leo and marcus want minorities to have permanent seat or two on every jury.

they want the jury to have predetermined number biased jurors to handle race issues,

to make the issues balanced.

SoftShell says

The bolded portion of your post contradicts itself.

The black victim did "get the same". A trial was held and a jury gave an impartial verdict.

CL says

Again, the rightwingers prove that they will give anyone who kills a black citizen the benefit of the doubt.

There IS a presumption of innocence, but why doesn't a black victim get the same? Why would you blame the victim so often, yet exonerate the killer?

Did the jury blame the victim? No. I said that YOU and your ilk do. That is your justification for this murder. Trayvon deserved it. He is "responsible" for his own death.

It makes you feel better about your racism.

Goran_K says

CL claims he gets worse than broken noses and gashes on his scalp practicing judo moves on a padded mat. Judo stands for the gentle way, maybe you and your training partners don't know what the heck you guys are doing. So yes that is dangerous when you have amateurs acting like idiots.

You deliberately left out wrestling. Why?

If you've ever done competitive sport like this, and for many years, you'll get cracked in the face, broken bones, fingers in the eye, hyperextended joints. They are tough, hand-to-hand sports.

Besides, I'm gentle and won anyway. My opponents, well, some of them were hyperaggressive punks who didn't obey the codes of conduct, or were poorly trained. Kinda like Zim, now that you mention it.

Can't beat a man fairly, you resort to cheating. In sport, you have impartial refs so it's hard to win that way.

In law, you just need people to believe the weak-willed cheater had no choice but to cheat, and the apologists come to their defense.

thomaswong.1986 says

leo and marcus want minorities to have permanent seat or two on every jury.

they want the jury to have predetermined number biased jurors to handle race issues,

to make the issues balanced.

if jurys are to be "of ones peers", then the entire jury should have been 1/2Hispanic gun owners with CCW permits that have an active roll in public safety. GZ would have been found not guilty, and given an award. Then the procecuter that held back evidense would have been put in prison for life.

I want a jury of my peers. Not a jury of liberal trash.

CL says

Goran_K says

CL claims he gets worse than broken noses and gashes on his scalp practicing judo moves on a padded mat. Judo stands for the gentle way, maybe you and your training partners don't know what the heck you guys are doing. So yes that is dangerous when you have amateurs acting like idiots.

You deliberately left out wrestling. Why?

If you've ever done competitive sport like this, and for many years, you'll get cracked in the face, broken bones, fingers in the eye, hyperextended joints. They are tough, hand-to-hand sports.

Yep, anyone who spends a good amount of time in Judo (or similar) classes is going to see all kinds of injuries, it is not easy on the body.

Perhaps Goran may have confused Judo with cuddle parties. It seems that Goran is often easily confused when faced with realities that don't confirm per-concieved notions.

What racism?
And please show me exactly where I blame Trayvon Martin for the incident?
You can't because the evidence does not exist.
I have argued all along that there is no evidence to find zimmerman guilty.
I have never argued that Trayvon was guilty.
U are starting to sound like you are full of shit.

CL says

Did the jury blame the victim? No. I said that YOU and your ilk do. That is your justification for this murder. Trayvon deserved it. He is "responsible" for his own death.

It makes you feel better about your racism.

Sounds like masturbation en masse.
I don't know where you dig this shit up....

leo707 says

Perhaps Goran may have confused Judo with cuddle parties.