patrick.net

leo707 says

SoftShell says

Glad you asked.

I goggled "beaten to death". Literally hundreds of hits came up. cut and pasted the first 4 to get you started towards the road to recovery.

Wow, hundreds of hits 'eh. And, you say these are results from a Google search? My, if you got that many and were able to link to four then that certainly answers the question as to how often beating deaths occur.

Yeah, screw those schmucks who would have used numbers from places like the FBI Uniform Crime Reports "data", or some other government propaganda! We know in our guts that it happens all the time, and Google proved it!

Here you go
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

Over 4000 people were "beaten to death" from 2007 to 2011 by "hands and feet" according to the FBI, or about 5% of all homicides tracked by the FBI during that time period. marcus is simply wrong. It's not rare at all.

He was better off with the gay rapist defense, at least that was comical.

marcus says

It doesn't really matter why Zimmerman was so delusional as to assume that
MArtin was a bad person,

lol ... aint marcus assuming TM aint a bad person?? lmao

How many twenty year olds were beaten to death when they outweighed their opponent by 30-40 LBS?

It ain't likely.

Also there are nearly a million assaults every year.

Weighing more does not necessarily translate into an advantage during a fight.
Being heavier can be an indication that the heavier person is not as fit as the lighter person.

StillLooking says

How many twenty year olds were beaten to death when they outweighed their opponent by 30-40 LBS?

It ain't likely

Zimmerman was trained in the martial arts and he outweighed Martin. The odds against him dying here must be astronomical.

Also since he had an arm free to shoot martin, he obviously had an arm free to defend himself with less lethal force.

And it is likely that Martin was the one that was doing the defending.

Goran_K says

I'm not sure what to say. The guy thinks Zimmerman shouldn't have shot Trayvon because "how often does someone get beat to death"?

So Zimmerman was perfectly safe and should have just waited until Trayvon got tired of beating him. If that doesn't paint marcus as a delusional racist who plays race like he plays sports teams, not sure what will. The worst part is this guy claims to teach kids. Would anyone want their kids around this guy?

Good PR for GZ would be bringing the "child" he killed back to life.

StillLooking says

Zimmerman was trained in the martial arts and he outweighed Martin. The odds
against him dying here must be astronomical.

only someone with zero time in conflict would ever say something so wrong. What if GZ was a woman ... with MMA training and outweighed TM by 50 lbs?? Use some honesty in your process.

StillLooking says

And it is likely that Martin was the one that was doing the defending.

it's likely TM picked the wrong victim. Libs hate it when someone refuses to be the victim.

Bap33 says

it's likely TM picked the wrong victim. Libs hate it when someone refuses to be the victim.

That's the entire platform. Wave the race card.... err... victim flag.

StillLooking says

How many twenty year olds were beaten to death when they outweighed their opponent by 30-40 LBS?

It ain't likely.

Also there are nearly a million assaults every year.

100% of the attackers that refused to stop before their victim was dead were successful. Suggesting a victim should gamble to see if their attacker is a quitter or not is horrible advice. You worry about yourself, and take that gamble if you wish.

There are 4,000 dead people from 2007 to 2011 who would say getting beat to death is a distinct reality in a street fight.

You are so full of it.

. And I know about fighting.

And Zimmerman wasn't a woman, and it is rare to be killed in a fight.

Bap33 says

StillLooking says

Zimmerman was trained in the martial arts and he outweighed Martin. The odds

against him dying here must be astronomical.

only someone with zero time in conflict would ever say something so wrong. What if GZ was a woman ... with MMA training and outweighed TM by 50 lbs?? Use some honesty in your process.

To make the claim that Martin picked Zimmerman as a victim is so idiotic.

We know Zimmerman Was stalking Martin

Bap33 says

StillLooking says

And it is likely that Martin was the one that was doing the defending.

it's likely TM picked the wrong victim. Libs hate it when someone refuses to be the victim.

StillLooking says

it is rare to be killed in a fight.

sir .... unless the victim is alseep or out of arms reach there SHOULD be a fight before someone is killed. How many pounds of dope have you smoked thus far in life? Be honest.

You know zero about fighting. zero.

StillLooking says

and it is rare to be killed in a fight.

Bap33 says

StillLooking says

Zimmerman was trained in the martial arts and he outweighed Martin. The odds

against him dying here must be astronomical.

only someone with zero time in conflict would ever say something so wrong. What if GZ was a woman ... with MMA training and outweighed TM by 50 lbs?? Use some honesty in your process.

Getting beat to death accounts for about 5% of all FBI tracked homicides. That's rare? Seems like it happens quite a bit.

Your stats don't show 4000 people killed in a fight.

Obviously compromised individuals will be at risk of death in a physical altercation.

Goran_K says

There are 4,000 dead people from 2007 to 2011 who would say getting beat to death is a distinct reality in a street fight.

StillLooking says

Obviously compromised individuals will be at risk of death in a physical altercation.

Exactly our point. Thank you for finally admitting that.

Thanks for coming over to our side.
Your membership papers are in the mail.

StillLooking says

Obviously compromised individuals will be at risk of death in a physical altercation.

John Bailo says

SoftShell says

someone getting beaten to death is such a rare event,

Since when is shooting a person, then, after they are dead, staging a fight and smearing their own blood on your head a "fight"?

(Remember, Zimmerman had no cuts on is scalp. The bleeding stopped when they wiped the surface liquids off.)

But, but...he feared for his life! The ground is as scary as a gun!

Rescued? George Zimmerman did not rescue anyone. He just assisted some people that had been in a car accident in getting out of their overturned car. Anyone would have done that, not just Saint George. This anecdote has no significance at all. Just because Zimmerman is capable of doing something that any normal person would does not make him less of a murderer.

justme says

Just because Zimmerman is capable of doing something that any normal person would does not make him less of a murderer.

You don't understand. In the right wing world, this isn't normal. This is extreme selfless heroic behavior to them. "he risked his life !" hahaha...

Seriously. They wouldn't stop their car and help some person that they don't even know that isn't paying them. Are you kidding me ?

But I agree, in my world where I assume everyone (or a high majority) is like me, this is very normal and nothing exceptional. As I said before, the only unusual thing is that he happened to be the very first person there to help.

By the way, do we know yet whether this story is even true ? It seems like it is. But the stories of the car being on fire have been retracted. (ironically by NBC)

(note: NBC originally reported the car was on fire - but later retracted that part of the story. NBC originally reported words in Zimmerman's 911 call the night that he killed Martin, that weren't there, and later retracted that story. )

Zimmerman was not a compromised individual.

Goran_K says

StillLooking says

Obviously compromised individuals will be at risk of death in a physical altercation.

Exactly our point. Thank you for finally admitting that.

So in Marcus's world, overturned cars don't leak gas, can't catch fire, can't explode at any moment killing everyone inside and anyone trying to extract them.
In Marcus's world, there is no risk to anyone. Everyone's skin is made of Kevlar...

marcus says

In the right wing world, this isn't normal. This is extreme selfless heroic behavior to them. "he risked his life !" hahaha...

And you can complete the trilogy by retracting this stupid post.

marcus says

(note: NBC originally reported the car was on fire - but later retracted that part of the story. NBC originally reported words in Zimmerman's 911 call the night that he killed Martin, that weren't there, and later retracted that story. )

Actually it can be scarier.
There are some nasty pics out there of heads bashed in from the ground. So grotesque i won't even link to them.
Google it yourself. ( or request an FBI report if you are looking for something more formal )

CL says

John Bailo says

SoftShell says

someone getting beaten to death is such a rare event,

Since when is shooting a person, then, after they are dead, staging a fight and smearing their own blood on your head a "fight"?

(Remember, Zimmerman had no cuts on is scalp. The bleeding stopped when they wiped the surface liquids off.)

But, but...he feared for his life! The ground is as scary as a gun!

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/meramec-float-trip-ends-in-fatal-shooting-after-dispute-over/article_a2774d0e-578c-5d01-89e2-d334dbe7c9c3.html

Here is a story of a guy getting shot for picking up a rock. I guess this was self defense also.

If you had bothered to read the story, the guy that got shot was not the one who picked up the rocks.
But, hey...who needs facts when the headline will do....

StillLooking says

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/meramec-float-trip-ends-in-fatal-shooting-after-dispute-over/article_a2774d0e-578c-5d01-89e2-d334dbe7c9c3.html

Here is a story of a guy getting shot for picking up a rock. I guess this was self defense also.

SoftShell says

Actually it can be scarier.

There are some nasty pics out there of heads bashed in from the ground. So grotesque i won't even link to them.

Google it yourself. ( or request an FBI report if you are looking for something more formal )

You don't think that Occam's razor dictates that the defense really needed to come up with an excuse for using lethal force against an unarmed person, by pretending that he was in fact, armed with the sidewalk?

StillLooking says

Zimmerman was not a compromised individual.

If you believe that, you are the compromised individual.

I think Occam's razor dictates that when one party has a broken nose, two black eyes, and a lacerated scalp, and the other party only has bruised knuckles, a gunshot fired in self defense becomes plausible.

CL says

You don't think that Occam's razor dictates that the defense really needed to come up with an excuse for using lethal force against an unarmed person, by pretending that he was in fact, armed with the sidewalk?

StillLooking says

Your stats don't show 4000 people killed in a fight.

Obviously compromised individuals will be at risk of death in a physical altercation.

Goran_K says

There are 4,000 dead people from 2007 to 2011 who would say getting beat to death is a distinct reality in a street fight.

For anyone that bothers to look at the FBI reports, yeah there were about 4,000 people murdered the 5 years of 2007-11 (4,058 to be exact). Gosh that seems like a lot, it is almost 1/10th of the 46,313 people murdered with guns over the same time. In a country of 300+ million that does seem scary!

Also, given that over that time there were 4,055,903 aggravated assaults, if you are in the midst of being assaulted that would put your chances of death at like 0.1%, and that is like 1 beating death for every thousand assaults!

Christ in 2011, with the 172,931 aggravated assaults (this is of course not including unreported assaults, of which I am sure there were zero) that were purely done with "personal weapons" (hands, feet, etc.) there were literally hundreds of murders (just like the Google results -- creepy...). And, by literally hundreds I mean there were exactly 728. That means that each person assaulted by only "hands, feet, etc." had only, like, a 99.6% chance of surviving the encounter!

I don't know about you, but a 99.6% chance of surviving a fist-a-cuffs encounter does not sound like very good odds to me. If someone raises their fists against you, I say shoot first and ask questions later! Better safe that sorry...

*pssst...* don't worry, if the facts and numbers don't agree with your narrative you can just ignore them, you always do!...

For anyone that is interested in actual crime data:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s

leo707 says

Christ in 2011, with the 172,931 aggravated assaults (this is of course not including unreported assaults, of which I am sure there were zero) that were purely done with "personal weapons" (hands, feet, etc.) there were literally hundreds of murders (just like the Google results -- creepy...). And, by literally hundreds I mean there were exactly 728. That means that each person assaulted by only "hands, feet, etc." had only, like, a 99.6% chance of surviving the encounter!

Faulty logic. Homicides themselves are extremely rare. You have a higher chance of dying in a car accident than going out and having someone murder you with a gun.

Even in Chicago, where hundreds of black men die every year at the hands of other violent black men, you have a less than .01% chance of walking around and just getting shot.

Does that mean you should never worry about homicide?

It all depends on the situation you're in. When Zimmerman is taking a shower at home, he's probably got a 0.00001% chance of dying by homicide. When he's walking around in a war zone in sub-Sahara Africa, it probably jumps to 10% .

When he's got Trayvon Martin on top of him punching his head against the concrete, and no way to escape, those chances shoot up a LOT. It's probably 50/50 in that situation.

The fact remains 5% of all homicides tracked by the FBI involved someone killing the other person by beating them. In the realm of homicides, it's not a rare occurance as marcus, leo, etc are trying to paint.

What were the extent of his wounds again? A broken nose? That's a punch.

Lacerations? Please. I got worse in my wrestling and judo days. Never shot a kid, either.

But, from the Defense's point of view they had to establish his "fear", don't you agree?

CL says

What were the extent of his wounds again? A broken nose? That's a punch.

Lacerations? Please. I got worse in my wrestling and judo days. Never shot a kid, either.

But, from the Defense's point of view they had to establish his "fear", don't you agree?

You mean you got worse in your dojo, with mats, and where your training partners were "practicing" moves on you?

You think training partners practicing moves on you in a controlled environment is the same as a violent street encounter?

You're kidding me right?

I love the logic of leo and CL.

Like someone is going to be on the ground, unable to escape, while taking punches to the face thinking, "Well I've only got a 1% chance of dying from the beating I'm taking according to FBI statistics. My nose is broken, and I am yelling for help and this guy is still not relenting in his attack, but you know what he'll get tired eventually so I'll just take my chances and let this guy keep punching my face."

Can we just accept the "Trayvon didn't deserve to get blown away in self defense" bandwagon has gone off the deep end?

One can only hope that CL and leo aren't in a violent street encounter, where some black guy is pummeling them. I wonder how long they will consider FBI statistics before taking drastic measures for their own survival.

leo707 says

Christ in 2011, with the 172,931 aggravated assaults (this is of course not including unreported assaults, of which I am sure there were zero) that were purely done with "personal weapons" (hands, feet, etc.) there were literally hundreds of murders (just like the Google results -- creepy...). And, by literally hundreds I mean there were exactly 728. That means that each person assaulted by only "hands, feet, etc." had only, like, a 99.6% chance of surviving the encounter!

Oh, another interesting side note to this is that if everyone who was at the receiving end of an aggravated assault by "personal weapons" used that as a justification to kill there would have been an additional 172,931 "justifiable" homicides in 2011. Assuming that using something other than just fists and feet is more dangerous and everyone killed the person aggravated assaulting them in 2011 then all the 751,131 aggravated assaults would have added to the justifiable homicide rate.

Anyone care to hazard guess about how may private citizens actually kill someone in a justifiable homicide per year....about 260...(that is right I did not forget any zeros).

751,131 justifiable homicides...ah what a country we would be living in if the leading cause of death was justifiable homicide! Christ, it could easily beat out heart disease or cancer.

How is Zimmerman unable to escape from Martin with an arm free?

None of you Yahoos is able to answer this one. He obviously not only had an arm free, but he was able to point his gun square at Martin's chest and then you claim that he was helpless.

This dog aint hunting. If Zimmerman was helpless under Martin, and Martin knew there was a gun, how is it that Martin let Zimmerman draw the gun and blast him to eternity?

Goran_K says

I love the logic of leo and CL.

Like someone is going to be on the ground, unable to escape, while taking punches to the face thinking, "Well I've only got a 1% chance of dying from the beating I'm taking according to FBI statistics. My nose is broken, and I am yelling for help and this guy is still not relenting in his attack, but you know what he'll get tired eventually so I'll just take my chances and let this guy keep punching my face."

Can we just accept the "Trayvon didn't deserve to get blown away in self defense" bandwagon has gone off the deep end?

Regardless of whether you die from a beating, once someone starts beating you you have the right to stop them by any means necessary.

StillLooking says

How is Zimmerman unable to escape from Martin with an arm free?

Why don't you test it out for us? Pay someone to choke the shit out of you while you are on your back with 2 free arms, and their body on top of your center of mass preventing you from escaping. Then you could ponder upon that question for a while right before you pass out.

Was Zimmerman 90 years old? Was Zimmerman an infant? Was Zimmerman sick? How was Zimmerman compromised?

Your data is badly skewed. The odds of a healthy 20 something year old that considerably outweights his opponnent being killed in a fight are much longer than 758 in a million.

Goran_K says

StillLooking says

Zimmerman was not a compromised individual.

If you believe that, you are the compromised individual.