Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
invite response
2013 Oct 23, 1:21pm 29,747 views 91 comments
« First « Previous Comments 61 - 91 of 91 Search these comments
Vicente
2013 Oct 26, 3:43pm
The Sonoma County coroner said he found seven "apparent entry wounds," two of them fatal.
7 is how many rounds hit the target. 8 were actually fired, so one shot went wild. This is quite unusual, shootings typically involve many more shots going wild. E.g. recent NYC incident where police attempted to shoot some crazy guy on the street, missed every time, and hit 2 bystanders.
http://reason.com/blog/2013/09/15/nypd-officers-shooting-at-crazed-guy-tak
Vicente
2013 Oct 26, 3:52pm
Yes, and from what I understand it is illegal to have a toy gun without at least a red tip
Per this story, the red tip had broken off. Plastic toys do break. Many of the guns of my childhood had duct tape fixing broken corners. Fortunately the many neighborhood "shootouts" of my youth never involved police.
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/north_bay&id=9300434
gang infested
drug peddling
armed criminals
You (and the body armored hard-ons in the picture you posted) need to calm the fuck down.
Maybe a puff of the Herbal Sacrament........
good luck with that.... this is what happens in gang infested areas. No different had
it been Chicago with its dreadful violence.
Jimmell Cannon Shot Eight Times By Police While Allegedly Holding A BB Gun
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/26/jimmell-cannon-shot-eight_n_909583.html
Jimmell Cannon was in serious to critical condition late Monday night at Chicago's Stroger Hospital, as the 13-year-old was riddled with bullets -- two in the hand, two in the shoulder, four in the leg.
The 13-year-old boy, whose parents describe him as a fun-loving, "straight A-B student," wasn't the victim of gang violence or a crazed attacker. Instead, the gunmen were Chicago police officers.
According to FOX Chicago, police arrived at a park near the Piccolo Specialty School where Jimmell attends to respond to a call of shots fired. They claim Jimmell matched the description of the shooter, so they came after him. He appeared to be holding a weapon in his hand, police say, and when they asked him to lower it, he refused. When he pointed the weapon in the officers' direction, they opened fire. Apparently, eight rounds were required to subdue the 13-year-old.
Police Shoot Woman Armed with BB Gun
http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20130927/pilsen/police-shoot-woman-armed-with-bb-gun
PILSEN— A 19-year-old woman was shot by police after pointing a BB gun at cops Thursday in Pilsen, police said.
Police responded to a call of a "man with a gun" in the 1000 block West Cullerton Avenue around 10:40 p.m. Thursday, according to a statement from police.
Moorland Avenue in Santa Rosa doesn't seem much like the Bronx.
if you noticed all the LA -- NYC gangs have spread nation wide by now.
http://www.fugitive.com/tag/santa-rosa-gangs/
MICHAEL LIRA AND 13-YEAR-OLD ACCOMPLICE ARRESTED IN SANTA ROSA FOR ALLEGED HOME INVASION ROBBERY
Published by Staff Writer on April 29, 2011
Two teens were arrested Thursday after allegedly breaking into a Santa Rosa home, ordering the residents to give them money, and threatening them with a gun in what appears to be a gang-related incident, police said. Michael Lira, 19, and a 13-year-old boy are suspected of breaking into a home in the 900 block of West Avenue early Thursday morning.
Y
2013 Oct 27, 12:29am
I thought you had the intelligence to see that I was not referring to the kid, but to criminals in general.
I guess I was wrong....
guttersnipes
Now the kid, murdered when he walked down the street and made a couple of cops nervous, is a guttersnipe.
Nice.
Y
2013 Oct 27, 12:31am
Precisely.
You recognize that you would most likely wind up acting just like the majority of officers in these situations.
Thanks for making my point.
I sure would like some of the police haters here to take on their role for a couple of months and see how well you wear the stench of the world.
The job of enforcing the oppression of the underclass and funneling them into the largest Gulag in the world?
Not for all the money.
Y
2013 Oct 27, 12:33am
As soon as you can define a "sot", we can give you an answer....
The Sonoma County coroner said he found seven "apparent entry wounds," two of them fatal.
Way seven sots, just to be sure kid be dead. One is not enough?
Y
2013 Oct 27, 12:34am
20 to life for the parents.
They should have dumped the broken toy...
Yes, and from what I understand it is illegal to have a toy gun without at least a red tip
Per this story, the red tip had broken off. Plastic toys do break.
I'm telling you, you hysterical pantywaists need to calm down.
THE US CRIME RATE IS THE LOWEST IN DECADES.
In the past 20 years, for instance, the murder rate in the United States has dropped by almost half.
In the meantime the police have gone straight crazy in the pursuit of arming themselves for occupation and repression.
Really, they are who you should be scared of. When was the last time you bumped into and were victimized by the Nuestra or La Eme or the bad boy biker boogie men that the cops use to justify buying armored assault vehicles.
It is amazing to me how fearful (TERRORISTS! GANG CRIME!) you propagandized pansies are.
Shaman
2013 Oct 27, 1:43am
APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says
THE US CRIME RATE IS THE LOWEST IN DECADES.
In the past 20 years, for instance, the murder rate in the United States has dropped by almost half.
That's because the cops shoot everything that moves.
According to the authors of "Freakonomics" it's because of rampant abortions for inner city types being pushed throughout the 80s and 90s. Less urban youths = less crime.
Y
2013 Oct 27, 1:44am
and when was the last time 99.9% of the population were shot at by the police? We can play these word games from both angles.
The police are hyped up as they should be given the frequent shootings by juveniles. And it's probably not the % of shootings, but the sensational reporting of them by the rabid liberal media that has enforcement on edge.
In the meantime the police have gone straight crazy in the pursuit of arming themselves for occupation and repression.
Really, they are who you should be scared of. When was the last time you bumped into and were victimized by the Nuestra or La Eme or the bad boy biker boogie men that the cops use to justify buying armored assault vehicles.
According to the authors of "Freakonomics" it's because of rampant abortions for inner city types being pushed throughout the 80s and 90s. Less urban youths = less crime.
Maybe so. Whatever the cause why does less crime warrant insanely militarized, hostile and authoritarian law enforcement? Or draconian laws and sentencing guidelines?
I have noticed stories lately about "woman arrested and strip searched over traffic tickets!" or whatever. It is because the Supremes ruled last year that they could SS anybody that they brought in for any crime. Do you think they will miss any opportunity to make you spread your cheeks and squat?
Or mandatory blood draws under restraint for suspected drunk drivers as is happening in a few states?
This is civilian degradation and submission training.
My grandfather would have been aghast, and it would have been a bloody free-for-all.
reporting of them by the CORPORATE CONTROLLED media that has enforcement on edge.
There, I fixed that for you.
It is very important to correctly identify your enemies.
Homeboy
2013 Oct 27, 7:15am
Looking at the timeline, the shooting took place awfully goddamn fast:
That doesn't necessarily prove anything. It certainly would take less than 10 seconds for a person to shoot a policeman. If you're saying that cops must count to ten before they shoot back at someone pointing a gun at them, I can't say I agree.
Automan Empire
2013 Oct 27, 8:05am
THE US CRIME RATE IS THE LOWEST IN DECADES.
In the past 20 years, for instance, the murder rate in the United States has
dropped by almost half.
According to the authors of "Freakonomics" it's because of rampant abortions
Many believe that removal of lead from paint and gasoline is a major driver of this trend, too. Landlords, remember this instead of grousing about lead paint regulations in your units.
Y
2013 Oct 27, 10:21am
There. I fixed that for you.
It is very important to correctly identify the pressure the various police departments are under.
THE US CRIME RATE IS THE LOWEST IN DECADES.
In the past 20 years, for instance, the murder rate in the United States has dropped by almost half.In the meantime the police ARE UNDER UNIMAGINABLE PRESSURE in the pursuit of ADOLESCENTS arming themselves WITH SEMIAUTOMATIC WEAPONS for THE EXPRESS INTENT OF SHOOTING SCHOOL PERSONNEL.
In the meantime the police ARE UNDER UNIMAGINABLE PRESSURE in the pursuit of ADOLESCENTS arming themselves WITH SEMIAUTOMATIC WEAPONS for THE EXPRESS INTENT OF SHOOTING SCHOOL PERSONNEL.
OK, we are going to have to take more extensive measures to get your cortisol levels back down. You need to immediately unplug your TV. It is most probably the source of this hysterical anxiety.
A kid in America is more likely to be struck by lightning than shot in a mass school shooting. Maybe the cops could patrol the playground with some kind of umbrella lightning rods grounded to their new $250,000 Lenco BearCat armored vehicle.
Because as far as I know they have never, ever, stopped a school shooting from taking place. They are more likely to "shelter in place" behind the BearCat waiting for the suicide shot. (Officer safety being paramount) That is certainly what they did at Columbine, while people bled to death.
You on the other hand are more likely to be killed by the TV (that is hopefully now unplugged) or your toaster than by International Terrorism.
You don't really need to be so scared.
REpro
2013 Oct 27, 12:17pm
Or mandatory blood draws under restraint for suspected drunk drivers as is happening in a few states?
In CA if a person is suspected for DUI and refuse to take breathe test is arrested and blood test is taken by force.
Y
2013 Oct 27, 12:43pm
The point is obviously over your head. It only takes one kid with one semiautomatic to put every cop in america on edge, courtesy of your beloved red diaper doper media.
The endless cnn coverage over the hours...days...weeks turning a rare event (on a per capita basis) into an endless reel of hellish carnage.
Thank you RedDiaperDoperMedia for putting every dick with a stick on hair trigger status.
Robert Sproul says
A kid in America is more likely to be struck by lightning than shot in a mass school shooting. Maybe the cops could patrol the playground with some kind of umbrella lightning rods grounded to their new $250,000 Lenco BearCat armored vehicle.
Because as far as I know they have never, ever, stopped a school shooting from taking place.
It only takes one kid with one semiautomatic to put every cop in america on edge
Damn it to Hell Tex, them cops are even jumpier than you are.
Y
2013 Oct 27, 1:21pm
Thank you for finally coming around to my pov...
Robert Sproul says
It only takes one kid with one semiautomatic to put every cop in america on edge
Damn it to Hell Tex, them cops are even jumpier than you are.
Vicente
2013 Oct 27, 3:02pm
Looking at the timeline, the shooting took place awfully goddamn fast:
That doesn't necessarily prove anything. It certainly would take less than 10 seconds for a person to shoot a policeman. If you're saying that cops must count to ten before they shoot back at someone pointing a gun at them, I can't say I agree.
You seem to be missing my point. Rolling down the street in a car....
Radio in
2 seconds, Get out of car
1.5 seconds, Draw gun
3 seconds, Shout commands
??? seconds, Await response ?
I wasn't there, but let's ASSUME he's carrying the toy muzzle down. As he turns, he's raising both hands and the muzzle describes an upward arc that looks to nervous cop like RAISING TO FIRE.....
BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM
Only senior officer fires, rookie does nothing. Let's say 4 seconds firing time.
Now they radio in about shots fired.
I don't see how the kid had even a millisecond to comprehend what was going on before he was looking down at his chest watching his life end.
Vicente
2013 Oct 31, 6:47am
Veteran liked to write articles for SWAT magazine, teach firearms, and talk about the need to have a "mean gene".
In a 2008 article written by Gelhaus for S.W.A.T. Magazine, the officer warned against hesitation in deciding to use a firearm lethally.
"Today is the day you may need to kill someone in order to go home," he wrote. "If you cannot turn on the 'mean gene' for yourself, who will? If you find yourself in an ambush, in the kill zone, you need to turn on that mean gene."
He once shot himself in the leg, it would have been a shame for him to retire with the only person he shot having been himself. Looks like he finally got that gunfight he wanted to play & win, too bad it turned out to be with a kid.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/29/erick-gelhaus-cop-shooter_n_4173593.html?utm_hp_ref=crime
RWSGFY
2013 Oct 31, 7:00am
Or mandatory blood draws under restraint for suspected drunk drivers as is happening in a few states?
In CA if a person is suspected for DUI and refuse to take breathe test is arrested and blood test is taken by force.
RU sure? Isn't it more like "refusal to take test == automatic admission of guilt of DUI"?
REpro
2013 Oct 31, 9:09am
RU sure? Isn't it more like "refusal to take test == automatic admission of guilt of DUI"?
Not necessary, a friend of mine did refuse due to severe asthma condition.
Homeboy
2013 Oct 31, 11:11am
You seem to be missing my point.
I don't believe that I am.
Radio in
2 seconds, Get out of car
1.5 seconds, Draw gun
3 seconds, Shout commands
??? seconds, Await response ?
Even considering that you pulled these numbers out of your ass, that leaves 3.5 seconds for the suspect to turn around and point the gun at them. Had it been real gun, you could have a dead cop. If 3.5 seconds is long enough for the cop to shoot the suspect, it is ALSO enough time for the suspect to shoot the cop. So AGAIN, if you believe the police must count to ten, or count to ANY number before shooting, I don't think that makes a lot of sense. What you seem to be saying is that the cop deliberately murdered the suspect even though he didn't believe his life was in danger. What's the motive?
Only senior officer fires, rookie does nothing. Let's say 4 seconds firing time.
Well that's a separate issue. Yes, the fact that only one officer fired, and fired 7 shots, is worthy of investigation. But the timeline alone is not proof of melfeasance.
Vicente
2013 Oct 31, 1:13pm
Even considering that you pulled these numbers out of your ass, that leaves 3.5 seconds for the suspect to turn around and point the gun at them.
I didn't pull the number out of my ass, they are reasonable guesses. Once upon a time I designed practical pistol courses, so I have more than a passing acquaintance of how long various events in pistol handling take.
Bullet wounds were on the side, so doesn't appear he even completed turning.
He put 7 of 8 rounds on the kid, so he wasn't doing "spray and pray". So I would expect 3+ seconds for that which you didn't account for. Let's say 2.5 seconds to complete firing 8 aimed rounds, so back up that 10 seconds by that amount. Which leaves little time for someone to understand what is going on and react reasonably.
2+1.5+3+x+2.5=10, leaves x as 1 second.
Let me give you a simple example, quick draws. Everyone thinks they can be FAST and react immediately if they train. The fact is simply that from the moment you hear a beep even on a calm range situation, the time delays to even perceive that beep and start initiating muscle movement are significant. A really good response is ~1.5 seconds. A *really* good response time would be just under a second. That's someone who practices a LOT and has turned it into nearly muscle response very little cognition.
13-year old kids are spastic to start with. Expecting one to understand what is going on with a shout from behind and absolutely no time to take it in... well that apparently ends in death when Sgt. Farva is on the other end of the gun.
The training of police these days is IMO to shoot first and ask questions later. The citizen response ordinarily seems to be if a kid ends up dead well they must have been asking for it, so why change anything. You have a bunch of twitchy veterans and SWAT guys roaming the streets and they train to come into a room and kill everything that might "look like a bad guy", which is not good training IMO. Police death rates of ANY type on the job are not in the top 10, it is not as dangerous a job as they would have you think. Dangerous job? Fisherman!
Police death rates of ANY type on the job are not in the top 10, it is not as dangerous a job as they would have you think.
Yet Officer Friendly is always ready to escalate the violence in the name of "officer safety".
This is how they recruit the right testosterone poisoned authoritarians for the job:
http://www.youtube.com/embed/w_rKA6ROAVk
Homeboy
2013 Oct 31, 5:18pm
I didn't pull the number out of my ass, they are reasonable guesses. Once upon a time I designed practical pistol courses, so I have more than a passing acquaintance of how long various events in pistol handling take.
Oh, I didn't realize you "designed practical pistol courses". Well then, I guess everything you say must be gospel. LOL. If I had a nickel for everyone on the internet who imagined himself to be an "expert" on a subject, I would be a millionaire.
Bullet wounds were on the side, so doesn't appear he even completed turning.
Well then that would be important evidence to consider. However, you didn't mention that before. You only argued that the shooting "took place too fast", and that is what I took issue with. So don't confuse the issue.
Which leaves little time for someone to understand what is going on and react reasonably.
The issue is not whether the suspect "had time to react reasonably"; the issue is whether the officer believed his life was in danger. As I said, it takes but a second to fire a gun. It does not require an extended amount of time or contemplation. So to expect police to always wait for some "reasonable action" from a suspect who is pointing a gun at them rather misses the point. They could be dead in the time it takes them to contemplate. If the shooting was unjustified, so be it. But the mere fact that it happened "fast" does not prove that.
It's interesting that you take ONE part of the USA Today article completely to heart - the part about the 10 seconds, even though you don't really know the sequence of events. Did he get out of the car and draw his gun at the same time? Does that really need to be two separately timed events? Was the second call made AS the shooting was taking place? Does it really take 3 seconds to fire seven shots? No, it could be done faster than that. I think you make a LOT of assumptions, based on taking this vague "timeline" to heart, but then completely ignore the sentence in the article which says,
Witnesses say at least one of the deputies took cover behind an open front door of the cruiser, and one yelled twice "drop the gun."
Notice that is says WITNESSES say "drop the gun" was yelled twice. Not the cops, the witnesses. So why is ONE part of the article gospel to you, yet another part seems to be beneath your notice?
13-year old kids are spastic to start with. Expecting one to understand what is going on with a shout from behind and absolutely no time to take it in... well that apparently ends in death when Sgt. Farva is on the other end of the gun.
It's a tragedy, but was it malicious? I think you're making a lot of assumptions that haven't been proven yet.
« First « Previous Comments 61 - 91 of 91 Search these comments
Northern California sheriff's deputies have shot and killed a 13-year-old boy after repeatedly telling him to drop what turned out to be a replica assault rifle, sheriff's officials and family members said.
http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/calif-sheriffs-deputies-shoot-kill-13-year-old
#crime