patrick.net

hrhjuliet says

Where are you two the same?

Ironically, I think the Captain said it best, in response to a new User who wondered why people here seemed to thrash each other so much. He said we're people who thought our elected representatives listened to actual people, maybe some of us even wrote letters, then we saw that elected representatives listen primarily to campaign financiers and revolving doormen offering patronage jobs and "investment" opportunities. So, instead of getting drunk at the bar, we type at each other here. As the Captain said, "It's our thing."

One thing I've learned here, seeing how deeply divided people are, and how unmovable they are in their disagreements, governing this country is a real challenge. It reminds me of something Ron Paul said: the less government we have, the less we need to agree on. Conversely, the more government gets involved in every aspect of our daily lives, the more opportunities politicians have to divide and misrule us. It's very lucrative, as the prison industrial complex can attest.

Thank you sbh, I am covered in some chalky pink stuff and my two year old is a little freaked out by it. I will try Technu, maybe it will be less freaky. Carmel is seriously one big poison oak farm. I think the sand on the beach and the city streets are the only safe spots in the entire area. Ugh. Thank for the insights and answering my questions. I do enjoy the rants on Pat.net, more entertaining than TV, and always an education. I hope more people answer my little question. :-)

hrhjuliet says

chalky pink stuff

Ah, calamine lotion, I'm guessing from memory. At night, you might want to try a diphenydramine hydrochloride tablet. It's an anti-histamine, the main side effect being drowsiness, so it gets marketed as a night-time product, e.g. in "Tylenol PM" and generic versions. It is also available as a cream, somewhat effective but not better than calamine. IMMV, and I'm not pretending to give medical advice over the interwebs; read the warnings on the label and the directions carefully; IIRC, other side effects can include temporarily elevating the blood pressure, which can be problematic for people who suffer from hypertension.

hrhjuliet says

What do the conservatives and liberals agree on?

Yeah, I don't agree with the essential premise of a "pox on both your houses". There isn't a compromise between, say wrong and right, or if the Earth is round. There is a truth and that is real, and the conservatives are almost always on the wrong side of it.

The values that you can see above, illustrated by SBH and Dan, are that our PRINCIPLES are larger than our individual self-interest. If you want justice, you want it for all people. That is fair, Democratic, -- even what we used to call sportsmanship falls under that rubric. Is there really another opinion that's better, or more noble?

I'm not gay, but I'm not a liberal because I have gay friends or for some weird political agenda. I am pro-fairness, and against pettiness. Our foundational principles don't allow for equal treatment under the law, they demand it.

And they are and should be timeless. Not based on some electoral whim, and not conveniently tossed aside because someone thinks so, based on their own morality.

It's not "free speech" unless you offend, right? Similarly, there is no point to freedom if it means the majority reserves some rights for itself exclusively.

If I'm right, then a conservative is just a liberal waiting to have that epiphany. And me being a liberal, I believe in their inherent abilities to reason and come to good, moral conclusions, and I'm patient enough to wait it out. :)

That said, perhaps we agree that we should not be taxed any higher than necessary to pay for our government. It's not like liberals WANT to be taxed, but again, they are able to put that aside and do what is in the larger interest. That's how we roll. :)

FortWayne says

You point out that their priorities rival to that of a 15 year old, and they get really offended.

I point out that these aren't priorities just because you say so, and you can't even begin to comprehend what I'm saying.

Good trolling though. This thread was an all time stupid one, even for you, and yes it is amazing that so many of us bother responding to something this absurd.

If an issue is worth addressing, and simultaneously exposes you for being homophobic and probably secretly a homo yourself (like most others that make such a big deal of this), then why not address it ?

That doesn't make it a high priority though, above things like jobs, or energy policy, or the environment.

FortWayne says

If you watch the news even badly lately, you'll notice a pattern. Liberals are more concerned about gays in Russia, than about economy, well being, or stability of an American economy.

Is it any wonder no one takes those clowns seriously anymore?

Oh, sure, Republicans don't quibble over unimportant nonsense... like "The War On Christmas".

Fort Wayne, maybe the people are creating a dialogue about what is happening to gays in Russia mainly because personal liberty is being threatened. It may not be the subject itself, but the principal. People are being jailed because they are protesting and there are gay couples who are having their assets seized, and now the Russian government is threatening to take the children of gay couples and put them in foster care. When any personal liberty is threatened to this hideous degree, people who believe in liberty, humanity and justice must be alarmed. If a person was not alarmed by that then my assumption would be that they are against the principles of a democratic republic. What is happening in Russia is totalitarianism, and what is happening to the gays is a symptom of that. We should be against this abuse, and we should be vocal about it.

FortWayne says

I still remember you claiming that constitution had a "right to happiness" in it. So you really are that guy, along with sbh who has "foundational ideas".

Does that make what you've said any more correct? No. In addition- yes- there is in fact parts of the constitution that guarantees the equal rights of all US citizens. As pointed out in the 14th amendment. I guess it really comes back to the question of whether or not you agree with the constitution or not.

errc says

You go to great lengths to avoid being critical of your own party,,,and your beliefs for that matter. It is ok to admit wrong doing, learn from your mistakes, and moved forward

You seem hell-bent on trying to turn the subject of this post into something different, I assume because since you pretty much lost the debate over this subject then I guess another tactic would be to bring in a totally different debate entirely. Did I say that I am totally fault-less or that the Democratic party is perfect in every way? Nope. But again- that has nothing to do with this debate and if you want to have a debate about those subjects then feel free to create a new post.

BoomAndBustCycle says

unimportant nonsense... like "The War On Christmas".

unimportant nonsense... like "The War On Christmas" is no less unimportant than "The war on Gays".

CaptainShuddup says

BoomAndBustCycle says

unimportant nonsense... like "The War On Christmas".

unimportant nonsense... like "The War On Christmas" is no less unimportant than "The war on Gays".

The Establishment Clause and the Separation of Church and State...important.

The War on Gays...important, due to the 14th amendment and basic human dignity.

Conservatives, wrong on both.

Again, would you be singing a different tune if the majority were gay and Muslim? And they treated you, based on your religious beliefs or sexuality, as a 2nd class citizen? I don't need an answer because I know what the truth is. You'd be terribly upset, as you should be. And as they should be.

Which means that you currently either have no principles or they are situational, which is as good as having none.

CL says

The Establishment Clause and the Separation of Church and State...important.

Yes but the over reach of the Liberal's assault on Christmas goes way beyond the separation of the Church and the State. They tell companies what they can display, harass home owners, hide themed decoration on the back wall of the big retail store, hidden behind a Motor Oil display. Why just the last year or two the Left, or Obama's special brand of it. Is back peddling so hard on the Retail assault on Christmas, he was practically offering a federal blow job for every Christmas present bought last year. The Left has sucked all of the fun out of Christmas so much so to the point, that Christmas comes and goes, and the Job report never budges. In spite of the official press release in December, then corrected, honest reflection posted in January. The Liberals have Retail Santa in the best Cancer treatment center in the world trying to rehabilitate his tired dead ass. While they placed Jesus in the smoking friendly Hospice retreat.

The State doesn't have the right to tell me, what I think is, and is not a sin, just because I sell the world's best Chicken Sandwich, or produce the World's best Duck Call.

Libs wrong on both counts!

CL says

Which means that you currently either have no principles or they are situational, which is as good as having none.

The very definition of social conservatism. The very anti-thesis of liberalism. Well said.

CaptainShuddup says

Yes but the over reach of the Liberal's assault on Christmas goes way beyond the separation of the Church and the State. They tell companies what they can display, harass home owners, hide themed decoration on the back wall of the big retail store, hidden behind a Motor Oil display.

Bullshit. I'm a liberal. Most of my friends are liberals. We don't argue that the state should force any private individual or store not to display any symbols. We do argue for equality. If you can put a nativity scene on your lawn, I can but a Satanic orgy on mine. Fair's fair.

CaptainShuddup says

Why just the last year or two the Left, or Obama's special brand of it.

Obama is no liberal by any means. I hardly consider Obama a leftist. If he were white and a Republican, he'd be a poster boy for the warfare industry and big business. He's right of Reagan. Hell, he's right of Nixon.

CaptainShuddup says

They tell companies what they can display, harass home owners, hide themed decoration on the back wall of the big retail store, hidden behind a Motor Oil display.

Really? Please show us where liberals or the alleged liberal Government has done any of the above?

This reminds me of people bitching about bi-lingual signs at Home Despot. Did the PC police dictate this, as the right assumes? Or is it just businesses doing what makes sense to their business.

Hispanics shop at Home Depot...a lot. Every time I've been in there in the morning there are countless maintenance, mowing service and landscaping folks buying supplies for their day's work. It makes sense to have bilingual signs or miss out on big sales.

The big businesses for a long time trod upon the sensibilities on non-Christians. Nobody has told them not to, but they've made the same calculated decision that Home Despot did. I'm sure that Christianity )and business) will survive even without having to belittle non-Christians via a de facto state religion.