patrick.net

Why do you hate Job Creators?

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

I think this is called Innovation.

Why does everyone hate it?

You misunderstand - the state does not hate such innovation.

Far from it, the state want to recognize and reward these innovators!

Think about it, these innovators are escorted to an exclusive state resort, given their very own accomplishment ceremony at which the state lists the accomplishments for all to hear and twelve of society's finest then decide just how awesome the innovators are.

Depending on the level of awesomeness the innovators may then be treated to many years of state sponsored luxury, again at one of the state's many exclusive private resorts where the innovators will be treated to delicious meals, recreation facilities, and all the fantasy sex they can handle (and then some). These resorts are SO exclusive they have armed guards and razor wire to keep out the riff raff.

Its so awesome few guests ever want to leave. In fact many of those who do go out and innovate some more to get back in.

Boomer geniuses at the top of the pile!

zzyzzx says

Authorities said the couple got $167,000 in welfare from the state of Minnesota while living in Palm Beach on a $1.2 million yacht.

How does one do that ? Must be over several years.

I knew Reagan was right about those welfare gueens. We just had to wait a few decades for them to finally catch one.

Hey zzyzzx. Why don't you ever post the Fox URL to these articles, that is the one you originally read ? Or was it drudge ?

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/03/23/minnesota-couple-andrea-and-colin-chisholm-who-lived-yacht-accused-welfare-fraud

I'm still trying to understand why Zzyzzx or Fox News would post this. Rich douchebag fraudsters on the run, doesn't work very well for that Welfare Queen narrative. They aren't even brown. They probably dodge their taxes though, which in TeabagLand would make them heroes no matter what.

$167,000 over 7 years is $23,857 a year. So while rich douchebags undoubtedly welcome any income, it would hardly keep up payments on the yacht or mansion. Probably used for groceries.

Ah ha... I assume this story was mentioned because its a really neat lil' trick that some right wingers use: Find A story about an instance of someone abusing food stamps and by golly, that must then mean that EVERYONE on food stamps does the same thing.

Yup. Totally convinced...

you don't have to lie to get really good public assistance. the programs are very generous with tax payers money.

Typical liberals, they don't like the outcome, so all they do is criticize the source. That's how you know you have won an argument with a liberal.

zzyzzx says

Typical liberals, they don't like the outcome, so all they do is criticize the source.

That's how you know you have won an argument with a liberal.

Okay.

I need to make a list of the places I have read that climate scientists are corrupted by research grants, that Al Gore is fat and uses lots of electricity.

(I should be finished within 200,000 years.)

casandra says

you don't have to lie to get really good public assistance

Example?

zzyzzx says

Typical liberals, they don't like the outcome, so all they do is criticize the source. That's how you know you have won an argument with a liberal.

Point missed. This is a single story of one couple. That doesn't equal to everyone on food stamps behaving the same, which is a common theme I see conservatives try to inject into all things social programs.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

When I signed up they gave me a yacht and Michelle Obama appeared at my house with a white baby to eat

Why go through the hassle? Just open a bank, or become a government contractor!

zzyzzx says

They first have to get caught. Authorities said they have reason to believe the couple fled the U.S. and may be hiding out some place where it’s warm and keeping a low profile.

Who's the Genius that sent a Welfare "Our records indicate..." letter to a Yacht?

Hilarious, they donated $1,000 to Connecticut Republican committees.

What we have here is old-fashioned Red State Socialist grifters. What a laugh riot for Faux News and TeaMerica to bring this up as indictment of welfare. Instead of you know, as an indictment of their hypocrisy and willingness to excuse fraud and criminality.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/03/23/Couple-Rips-Off-Minnesota-for-Benefits

"See it wasn't the fault of the robber, it was the victim's fault for making it too easy to steal!"

Nice boat though.

zzyzzx says

Authorities Look For Couple Living Lavish Lifestyle On Food Stamps

Some asshole Republicans ripped of the state's social safety net, breaking the law majorly while doing so. Therefore, this child should starve to death as all food stamps are abolished.

Republican logic. Someone commits a welfare crime, therefore welfare should be banned. Someone commits a gun crime, therefore guns should not be banned. Consistency much?

For more information about why social safety nets are needed, read this.

Dan8267 says

zzyzzx says

Authorities Look For Couple Living Lavish Lifestyle On Food Stamps

Some asshole Republicans ripped of the state's social safety net, breaking the law majorly while doing so. Therefore, this child should starve to death as all food stamps are abolished.

Republican logic. Someone commits a welfare crime, therefore welfare should be banned. Someone commits a gun crime, therefore guns should not be banned. Consistency much?

For more information about why social safety nets are needed, read this.

This child should be given food, clothes, shelter, love, education and a future.
The yacht couple should be starved to death.

edvard2 says

This is a single story of one couple. That doesn't equal to everyone on food stamps behaving the same, which is a common theme I see conservatives try to inject into all things social programs.

Their case is not that unusual, since it's not unusual for people on welfare to work under the table, or get benefits in more than one state.

Dan8267 says

Someone commits a welfare crime, therefore welfare should be banned.

While I do think that welfare for able bodied people should be banned, at the very least, I would think that even liberals would want to eradicate all forms for welfare fraud. Sadly, I see no evidence of this.

zzyzzx says

Their case is not that unusual, since it's not unusual for people on welfare to work under the table, or get benefits in more than one state.

You're simply making that up instead of placing any facts. If you want to have a debate then you're going to have to come up with legitimate facts.

edvard2 says

You're simply making that up instead of placing any facts. If you want to have a debate then you're going to have to come up with legitimate facts.

Even the liberal Washington Post acknowledges this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/welfare/stories/wf110397.htm

zzyzzx says

While I do think that welfare for able bodied people should be banned, at the very least, I would think that even liberals would want to eradicate all forms for welfare fraud. Sadly, I see no evidence of this.

Sure, rich douchebag Republican grifters should go to jail. And pay fines.

Struggling family who forgot to report the weekend one of them worked security at a concert, not so much. In the sense that spending $10,000 or man-hours per case to audit and catch $50 worth of piddly stuff amongst poor people doesn't make any damn sense except to people whose goal is allegedly "fiscal conservatism". No the goal of anti-welfare is to punish poor people.

GOP wants to use rare incidents and fantasy to cancel an entire program, to claim anything else is dishonesty.

I full support finding and eliminating opportunities for fraud, but not if it results in reducing or killing programs to help the poor. There's this thing I recall from my Glibertopian days about "bang for the buck" and accomplishing your goals sometimes involves waste which you can reduce but not eliminate.

Let's say out of 4 underprivileged kids, you helped 3 of them become successful adults, but 1 is an abject societal failure and ends up in jail draining our tax dollars. GOTP would look at this and say the entire program is a failure and hold up the "Welfare Kid" as the poster child for their attempt to wipe it out entirely. They don't want to talk about the 3 that were helped, nor seriously examine what went wrong with #4, it's best if that one is in a privately-run jail.

zzyzzx says

Even the liberal Washington Post acknowledges this:

Yes- there is acknowledge that SOME people do in fact abuse the system. It doesn't matter what the subject at hand is either: people everywhere and of every financial background abuse whatever various systems at their disposal.

The point of this post seems to be trying to make the actions of a select few people and suggest that this is the norm versus the reality, which is cases such as these being the minor exceptions.

Otherwise there is no point to this post whatsoever.

zzyzzx says

Dan8267 says

Someone commits a welfare crime, therefore welfare should be banned.

While I do think that welfare for able bodied people should be banned, at the very least, I would think that even liberals would want to eradicate all forms for welfare fraud. Sadly, I see no evidence of this.

There is no reason why an able bodied person should receive welfare. It's simply ridiculous. What ticks me off the most is when I see healthy, young, able bodied young men in their 20's begging for money. When I get approached at a fast food by a frail old woman who says she is hungry, I will always buy her lunch - anything she wants.

Strategist says

There is no reason why an able bodied person should receive welfare. It's simply ridiculous. What ticks me off the most is when I see healthy, young, able bodied young men in their 20's begging for money.

Again- using generalized assumptions to make a point. Welfare is really broad-based. So in that regard, unemployment and social security fall into those categories. So assume someone is laid off for no fault of their own. Don't they deserve the benefits of unemployment- a system in which they paid into while they had a job? What about retirees who spent lifetime paying into their social security while they worked?

edvard2 says

Strategist says

There is no reason why an able bodied person should receive welfare. It's simply ridiculous. What ticks me off the most is when I see healthy, young, able bodied young men in their 20's begging for money.

Again- using generalized assumptions to make a point. Welfare is really broad-based. So in that regard, unemployment and social security fall into those categories. So assume someone is laid off for no fault of their own. Don't they deserve the benefits of unemployment- a system in which they paid into while they had a job? What about retirees who spent lifetime paying into their social security while they worked?

Yes, the unemployed do deserve the benefits they paid into, but not for ever.
The retired deserve their benefits for the rest of their lives.
It's the able bodied who have no desire to work, but use every means possible, every loop hole they can, to sponge off the rest of society, that bothers me.
It's not fair to me and for others who have to pay for this abuse.

Strategist says

It's the able bodied who have no desire to work, but use every means possible, every loop hole they can, to sponge off the rest of society, that bothers me.

Yes... and most people would agree. So with that said... would you agree that those who use the system in such a way are not atypical nor overall representative of the average user of such social welfare programs?

Let's look at that headline again:

"Authorities Look For Couple Living Lavish Lifestyle On Food Stamps"

Well were they living a lavish lifestyle on food stamps?

No!

They were living a lavish lifestyle because they were rich douchebags, they were assuredly not paying even upkeep on their yacht with $23K a year of "assistance". The article doesn't say it was all food stamps BTW, I expect a lot of it was not. Max for SNAP for 2 people would be about $4K.

Let's compare with someone else who lies to get some food assistance:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/trisha-lovetrove/why-i-lie-to-the-food-pantry_b_5064008.html

Vicente says

they were assuredly not paying even upkeep on their yacht with $23K a year of "assistance". The article doesn't say it was all food stamps BTW, I expect a lot of it was not. Max for SNAP for 2 people would be about $4K.

Very good point Vincente and yet and salvo to sink this rather pointless post.