patrick.net

Want government labeling? Walmart will be moving into organic foods.
I'm sure they'll do as good a job as the SEC does with ferreting out fraud
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-08/sec-goldman-lawyer-says-agency-too-timid-on-wall-street-misdeeds.html

sbh says

indigenous says

sbh says

Implicit in the lawful market is the government. Businesses cheat.

And you don't think government does?

Of course it does and you've heard me say as much. Both entities share the identical sins, hence they must lean against each other. Being simple minded you would destroy the one and claim the other is flawless. I would never be so naive.

Happy Easter Everyone. Now back to solving world problems.
I understand businesses cheat as there is a profit motive. How does the government cheat? And what is the motive? I just don't get it.

Strategist says

How does the government cheat? And what is the motive?

Government is not a monolith they are individuals who can hide behind the anonymity of "government".

Evil by definition is choosing to be complacent. Government is a culture of complacency. And individuals exploiting at the expense of the greater good. To greater or lesser degree this is treason.

They cheat by using unions to be overpaid and by not doing their jobs and by by stealing as with the case of the city of bell or paying cronies as with TBTF

Most do not realize they are stealing but they are stealing none the less.

Business does not steal as they are held accountable to the marketplace. They can cheat to some extent as sbh suggests but they are caught sooner than later and it hurts their business. They can cheat though government cronyism as Goldman Sachs does or by creating monopolies through government.

sbh says

The government suspended mark to market and prevented the market clearing and the financial collapse of the world economy.

This was the meme, but it were just a meme.

Paulsen secured through the FED, that derivatives and sub prime mortages were monetized by the FED.

indigenous says

Strategist says

How does the government cheat? And what is the motive?

Government is not a monolith they are individuals who can hide behind the anonymity of "government".

Evil by definition is choosing to be complacent. Government is a culture of complacency. And individuals exploiting at the expense of the greater good. To greater or lesser degree this is treason.

They cheat by using unions to be overpaid and by not doing their jobs and by by stealing as with the case of the city of bell or paying cronies as with TBTF

Most do not realize they are stealing but they are stealing none the less.

You are describing corruption by government officials. Corrupt officials do not benefit the government, they benefit themselves. Unless the country is a dictatorship there is no motive for the government as an entity to cheat. We, the people control the government, and we can replace our politicians at will, even between elections.

Strategist says

Corrupt officials do not benefit the government, they benefit themselves.

Xactly

Strategist says

Unless the country is a dictatorship there is no motive for the government as an entity to cheat.

Tru Dat

Strategist says

We, the people control the government, and we can replace our politicians at will, even between elections.

What makes you think that?

indigenous says

Strategist says

Corrupt officials do not benefit the government, they benefit themselves.

Xactly

Strategist says

Unless the country is a dictatorship there is no motive for the government as an entity to cheat.

Tru Dat

Strategist says

We, the people control the government, and we can replace our politicians at will, even between elections.

What makes you think that?

We can impeach Presidents, and recall Governors as in the case of California governor - Davis.

Strategist says

We can impeach Presidents, and recall Governors as in the case of California governor - Davis.

Ok but what about votes being stolen by candidates, wars being caused/started for the benefit of cronies, an entire industry, healthcare, being coerced into government control, etc, etc.

The problem is that pesky complacency that so many are affected by...

sbh says

Maybe you're not as stupid as you sound. Businesses are cons. When they've fucked their customer long enough they just move on to the next one.

This is simply a stupid statement from some one who has either never worked in business or is totally dishonest. You're just as good at creating boogey men of the private sector as indignous is of government. It's like watching two little kids go nah, nah, nah.

indigenous says

Strategist says

We can impeach Presidents, and recall Governors as in the case of California governor - Davis.

Ok but what about votes being stolen by candidates, wars being caused/started for the benefit of cronies, an entire industry, healthcare, being coerced into government control, etc, etc.

The problem is that pesky complacency that so many are affected by...

That does not affect the ability to impeach Presidents or recall governors.

bob2356 says

This is simply a stupid statement from some one

Who is the antecedent?

Strategist says

hat does not affect the ability to impeach Presidents or recall governors.

Sure it does.

indigenous says

Strategist says

hat does not affect the ability to impeach Presidents or recall governors.

Sure it does.

How?

Strategist says

How?

By inducing group thinking. This convinces the collective to quit believing their lying eyes and to just do what you tell them to do.

This was the product of Edward Bernays, who showed Wilson enough, for the communist countries to proclaim they learned everything they knew about about propaganda from him, Wilson. This the sort of thing that sbh swears up and down were his idea when it was anything but.

sbh says

smaulgld says

A company can only seek profit lawfully

Implicit in the lawful market is the government. Businesses cheat. Those who vilify the government as the sole criticism of "markets" are biased liars. You don't get to blame government for BOTH capitalism's desire to cheat the consumer for profit (this is intrinsic to humans and their business entities) and the fact that when the cheating succeeds it is because of government inefficiency or corruption.

Inherent in human nature is fraud for some. Institutions enable it on a larger level. Capitalists do not have an initial desire to cheat customers for profit any more than your neighbors have an initial desire to rob your home. Some may but for most businesses and people their primary aim is not to commit crimes.
Similarly most politicians don't run for office to get kickbacks and bribes.

Yet these things happen. Madison wrote if men were angels, no government would be necessary. I take the view that large business and large government are inherently more corruptible than smaller ones. If big government enables big corporations, I think a smaller government would be less able to facilitate unlawful, unethical and un earned profits that big companies make.

Both big business and government are to blame. More essential goods and services, however, come from businesses than government so I favor curbing government more than business.

Reduce the government size, and let big companies try to cheat customers and competitors will drive them from the market.

Here is an example of how a big government regulatory agency with a massive budget is ineffective in regulating the big banks

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-08/sec-goldman-lawyer-says-agency-too-timid-on-wall-street-misdeeds.html