patrick.net

Funny how he lived right down the street From the Pakistani West Point, but none of "Our" Friends in the Paki Military knew about it.

Strategist says

3000 died at the hands of terrorists during 911, that is 200 years worth right there.

What part of per year are you not able to understand. I didn't say average. Less than 15 per year died before 9/11. So we must have been doing a better job then than today using your "logic". Without all the money spent on fighting the war on terrorism.

bob2356 says

Strategist says

Isn't that why we elected them? If they can't do the job lets get someone else. They work for us, we don't work for them

Are you really that innocent? The policitians are the tip of the iceberg. It's the entrenched permenent government workers that want ever more power and control that is the real problem. No one in government has ever said my job is done, cut my budget. Keeping the public in fear means bigger budgets and faster raises.

Well there certainly was not enough fear prior to 911. We had tens of thousands of terrorists being trained in Afghanistan to kill us, right under our nose, and what did we do? Nothing.
911 woke us up in such a hurry, we ended up overreacting by attacking the wrong country.
Now once again we see the terrorists who want to kill us try and acquire nukes and once again what do we do? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Are we really that naive to believe these wackos in power out there will not obey their God when he tells them to nuke us? Don't we ever learn?

Strategist says

Isn't that why we elected them? If they can't do the job lets get someone else. They work for us, we don't work for them.

In a perfect world that would be true. In our world, I think we can all say that very few believe in that type of naviette.

Strategist says

How would that benefit the government? Once the politicians are out of office they become like you and me . What is their motive to spy on everyone?

I doubt very much they become like you and me. Some individuals may, but the important once they are all in their own club of elite, attached at the hip. And they get very different treatment than the rest of us.

Strategist says

We had tens of thousands of terrorists being trained in Afghanistan to kill us, right under our nose, and what did we do?

You mean, we had trained, along with Saudi Arabia and the ISI, tens of thousands of radical Islamists when Russia invaded.

We recognized and gave aid to the Taliban government right up until 9/11.

The Biggest Support of Fundamentalist Islam has been, is, and will be Saudi Arabia, a completely tyrannical undemocratic country. They fund Wahabi radical madrassahs from Britain to DC to Indonesia and churn out fanatical graduates.

bob2356 says

Strategist says

3000 died at the hands of terrorists during 911, that is 200 years worth right there.

What part of per year are you not able to understand. I didn't say average. Less than 15 per year died before 9/11. So we must have been doing a better job then than today using your "logic". Without all the money spent on fighting the war on terrorism.

The terrorists were gaining training, expertise and momentum prior to 911, that is why the numbers were low. We should have taken care of them before, not after 911.
Now we are making the same mistake with them trying to get nukes. We may as well just give them the nukes as a Xmas present.

thunderlips11 says

Strategist says

We had tens of thousands of terrorists being trained in Afghanistan to kill us, right under our nose, and what did we do?

You mean, we had trained, along with Saudi Arabia and the ISI, tens of thousands of radical Islamists when Russia invaded.

We recognized and gave aid to the Taliban government right up until 9/11.

The Biggest Support of Fundamentalist Islam has been, is, and will be Saudi Arabia, a completely tyrannical undemocratic country. They fund Wahabi radical madrassahs from Britain to DC to Indonesia and churn out fanatical graduates.

We trained them to be freedom fighters to fight off the Russians, not to kill us. These ungrateful creatures turned around and stabbed us in the back.
Never trust a religious wacko, especially when we know what their Allah is telling them to do.

Strategist says

We trained them to be freedom fighters to fight off the Russians, not to kill us. These ungrateful creatures turned around and stabbed us in the back.

Never trust a religious wacko, especially when we know what their Allah is telling them to do.

"Blowback".

Everytime we fill up our car, a new madrassah opens.

thunderlips11 says

Strategist says

We trained them to be freedom fighters to fight off the Russians, not to kill us. These ungrateful creatures turned around and stabbed us in the back.

Never trust a religious wacko, especially when we know what their Allah is telling them to do.

"Blowback".

Everytime we fill up our car, a new madrassah opens.

Don't blame me, I drive a Prius.

Strategist says

We trained them to be freedom fighters to fight off the Russians, not to kill us. These ungrateful creatures turned around and stabbed us in the back.

Never trust a religious wacko, especially when we know what their Allah is telling them to do.

We were not supposed to train them in the first place. What goes around, comes around. Too few people understand that, it's not just an old adage, it is ladden with truth.

Sure NSA might not be putting people in prison just yet for disagreeing with feds, but given time it'll get there. And it'll get there fast. Facebook and email sure makes it easy for NSA to make black lists of people that they'll make to send for concentration camps.

Strategist says

A few bad apples in the force does not make them all bad.

If there were only a few bad apples in the police force, the overwhelming majority of good cops would investigate and arrest the few bad cops.

The reality is that the brutality and corruption of the police forces in our nation is so great that it is only possible with systematic corruption and overwhelming support of all cops. The typical cop must be protecting bad cops in order for them to get away with all of the crimes they are committing. And a cop that protects a bad cop from the law is a bad cop himself.

So, no, I don't buy the few bad apples argument. Same goes for Congress and for the exact same reasons.
Strategist says

Dan8267 says

This student had done nothing wrong, broke no laws, and was clearly no threat to the cop. And he wasn't the only student that was threatened with death at that school that day.

We don't know that. Let them do their job.

Actually I do know. It's been a while, but I read multiple news articles on this particular raid. The kid did absolutely nothing.

The photo and video of the entire incident was captured on the school's security camera system, which showed that the police aimed an assault rifle at the head of a kid. The police denied this ever happened until after the security footage came out. Then they had to backtrack. I.e., the police lie about the crimes they commit, and pointing a loaded assault rifle at an innocent person is a felony. It's a death threat, literally.

Strategist says

If the kid is innocent, nothing will happen to him.

That statement is simply not true. Innocent persons are killed by the police all the time. Most often, the police will cover up their mistakes even planting false evidence on the victim.

Example: Cops shoot homeowner and then try to cover it up

A homeowner says a Phoenix police officer shot him six times in the back during a 911 home-invasion call, and the 911 tape recorded the officer's partner saying, "That's all right. Don't worry about it. I got your back. ... We clear?" The family says the officers were not aware that the 911 call was still recording as they spoke about covering up the shooting.

Example: Cops falsify reports and planting evidence to cover up murder

Investigators determined the raid at Johnston's home was based on falsified paperwork stating that illegal drugs were present.

All three men pleaded guilty to federal charges of conspiracy to violate civil rights resulting in death. Smith and Junnier also pleaded guilty to state charges of voluntary manslaughter and making false statements, and Smith admitted to planting bags of marijuana in Johnston's home after her death.

Tesler was convicted on one state count of making false statements after filling out an affidavit saying that an informant had purchased crack cocaine at Johnston's home in a crime-plagued neighborhood near downtown.

Their victim, Mrs. Johnston, was an 92-year-old woman. Yeah, the typical drug kingpin.

There are literally hundreds of cases where the police have raided the wrong house and ended up shooting, and usually killing, one of the innocent persons in that house.

If you're still not convinced, read this. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/20/war-on-drugs-420_n_3117993.html

Innocent people are killed all the time.

Strategist says

Isn't that why we elected them? If they can't do the job lets get someone else. They work for us, we don't work for them.

Politicians do not consider you their boss. Elections are systematically rigged by gerrymandering and other means. They are also bought by lobbyists. You are the last person the politicians will answer to.

Strategist says

Can someone please tell the NSA men don't wear bras.

The type of man that works for the NSA probably does.

curious2 says

I would add that mandatory Obamacare with electronic medical records creates even more opportunities for surveillance and chemical management of whole populations.

We already have effectively mandatory SS numbers at birth and many children are being fingerprinted "for their own protection". It is inevitable that every person's DNA will be recorded at birth and the government will own that data.

Don't worry everything is simply done for your own covenience, suggestions from helpful entities will be everywhere and everyone will be saved from needless OCD. It is much easier and humane than having stalinist gulags where obtaning intel with their crude methods was fruitless and prone to sadistic corruption. So make sure that you agree to the terms of agreement with all the helpful entities and don't worry about anything.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Can someone please tell the NSA men don't wear bras.

The type of man that works for the NSA probably does.

Just to clarify, morbidly obese men do wear bras. Picture the sort of guy who can't get any attention in his own life and so works overtime reading other people's private correspondence and hacking into their webcams.

Or the Seinfeld bro/manzier.

Dan8267 says

curious2 says

I would add that mandatory Obamacare with electronic medical records creates even more opportunities for surveillance and chemical management of whole populations.

We already have effectively mandatory SS numbers at birth and many children are being fingerprinted "for their own protection". It is inevitable that every person's DNA will be recorded at birth and the government will own that data.

Hospitals do actually need fingerprints and/or DNA to prevent mixups and baby-swapping. Home births do not suffer from that problem, but in America there has been a huge marketing push to make all childbirth a hospital event. That maximizes opportunities for Caesarians and infections, both very lucrative. American spending is the highest in the world, while infant mortality is higher than dozens of other countries that spend less; there are reasons for that.

http://rt.com/usa/156924-weyker-arrested-dui-deputy-crashes/

It was already a horrible night for a Wisconsin woman when a local sheriff’s deputy rolled past a stop sign and into her car, breaking her neck – but it erupted into a full-blown nightmare when she got stuck with wrongful drunk-driving charges.

For 25-year-old Tanya Weyker, the incident began on February 20, 2013, and its consequences have lasted to this day. Milwaukee County Sheriff’s Deputy Joseph Quiles initially crashed into her car, spinning it out of control and into a tree nearby General Mitchell International Airport.

Weyker – who recently told FOX 6 Now, “It was a miracle I wasn’t paralyzed” – broke her neck in four places. Despite the severity of her injuries, Weyker was questioned at the scene as she was receiving medical attention, and that’s when accusations of drunk driving first emerged.

...

According to Fox 6, Quiles wrote in his official report on the incident that he made a complete stop at the stop sign and also looked both ways before continuing. He also wrote that he never saw the headlights on Weyker’s Toyota Camry, despite the fact that her lights always switched on automatically when the vehicle started.

“If Deputy Quiles hadn’t essentially blamed the accident on her, they never would’ve drawn her blood. They never would’ve arrested her,” said Andrew Mishlove to Fox 6.

When those test results did come in, they were negative, meaning Weyker was neither drunk nor under the influence of other drugs. When the district attorney’s office decided not to file charges against her, Weyker said she wasn’t informed.

About 10 months after the accident occurred, investigators decided to interview Quiles regarding the accident. Just two days after the crash, surveillance video that showed Quiles was responsible was made available to the sheriff’s office, but law enforcement had decided to continue pressing Weyker to pay for the damages caused in the accident.

During the interview with investigators, however, Quiles admitted he probably rolled through the stop sign. Below is a transcript, courtesy of Fox 6:

Internal Investigator “You believe that you probably did roll?”

Voice of Deputy Quiles “Yes. Yes, I do.”
Internal Investigator “And because of that, you believe you were at fault for this accident.”
Voice of Deputy Quiles “That’s correct.”

Weyker has now filed a complaint against the deputy who arrested her, a move that could lead to a civil rights lawsuit aiming to cover the cost of her medical bills.

That's SOP for bad cops. What would get anybody else fired and probably sued by their employer, gets Cops a medical retirement. For example:

One of the elite athletes who crossed the finish line in the grueling Ironman Arizona last November is 49-year-old Audrey Glemba.

She's a medically-retired police officer who collects a worker's compensation check every month for an injury she said prevented her from doing her job.

A review of Glemba's records reveal she suffered a back and knee injury in 1995 during a training exercise with the Mesa Police Department.

A year later she was promoted to sergeant and in 2002 she became supervisor of the Dobson Bicycle Squad.

Sgt. Audrey Glemba put in for a medical retirement in 2008.

In the 14 years from her injury to her medical retirement, Glemba ran 29 races, including 10 triathlons, according to the website athlinks.com, a website that compiles results of such races.

CBS 5 Investigates learned that at the time she sought medical retirement, Glemba was under investigation by the internal affairs division.

"This investigation went from 2007 to 2008 when it ultimately ended," said Detective Steve Berry of the Mesa Police Department.

The 2007 internal affairs investigation revealed Glemba and members of the squad she supervised were taking photos of themselves, the homeless and disabled, which they ridiculed with disparaging and offensive remarks.

The article goes on to state that this harasser of the weak and mentally ill also won a "Handiest Woman" contest for her remodel of a 1958 kitchen - while collecting disability.

curious2 says

Hospitals do actually need fingerprints and/or DNA to prevent mixups and baby-swapping.

And baby stealing. "Code Pink" it's called.

When a gal who has been lying to her boyfriend sees that 9 months has gone by and needs proof.

curious2 says

Hospitals do actually need fingerprints and/or DNA to prevent mixups and baby-swapping.

Ah, but there is no need to store that information permanently or to give it to the government.

Dan8267 says

curious2 says

Hospitals do actually need fingerprints and/or DNA to prevent mixups and baby-swapping.

Ah, but there is no need to store that information permanently or to give it to the government.

There wasn't before, but there is now, since the medical records must be electronic and thus available for remote surveillance. The hospital corporations themselves tend to be huge chains, maximizing revenues (including by means of fraud and spreading infections) and buying up their less lucrative competitors. Once the data get entered into the corporate database of a national chain, they become globally accessible.

Strategist says

bob2356 says

Strategist says

3000 died at the hands of terrorists during 911, that is 200 years worth right there.

What part of per year are you not able to understand. I didn't say average. Less than 15 per year died before 9/11. So we must have been doing a better job then than today using your "logic". Without all the money spent on fighting the war on terrorism.

The terrorists were gaining training, expertise and momentum prior to 911, that is why the numbers were low. We should have taken care of them before, not after 911.

Now we are making the same mistake with them trying to get nukes. We may as well just give them the nukes as a Xmas present.

More evidence: They will do what Allah commands.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/05/world/africa/nigeria-abducted-girls/index.html?hpt=wo_c2

Strategist says

More evidence: They will do what Allah commands.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/05/world/africa/nigeria-abducted-girls/index.html?hpt=wo_c2

And what does that have to do with NSA wiretapping Americans in America?

Still waiting for that savior Obama to come down to us mortals and save us all huh?

FortWayne says

Strategist says

More evidence: They will do what Allah commands.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/05/world/africa/nigeria-abducted-girls/index.html?hpt=wo_c2

And what does that have to do with NSA wiretapping Americans in America?

Still waiting for that savior Obama to come down to us mortals and save us all huh?

The same mindset are looking for nukes to hurt us. We need NSA to stop them.
Remember the old bumper sticker... One nuclear bomb can ruin your whole day.

Strategist says

The same mindset are looking for nukes to hurt us. We need NSA to stop them.

Remember the old bumper sticker... One nuclear bomb can ruin your whole day.

The only answer to that is to convince the whole world to abandon religion. Eventually that will happen, but it will take time. Whenever a Marcus promotes religion, he sets this agenda back.

Put simply, the world needed to embrace rationality before the invention of nuclear weapons and ICBMs.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

The same mindset are looking for nukes to hurt us. We need NSA to stop them.

Remember the old bumper sticker... One nuclear bomb can ruin your whole day.

The only answer to that is to convince the whole world to abandon religion. Eventually that will happen, but it will take time. Whenever a Marcus promotes religion, he sets this agenda back.

Put simply, the world needed to embrace rationality before the invention of nuclear weapons and ICBMs.

You will never realize how much I like this response. See below.
All I can say is...in the meantime we (Russians included) need to control all nukes and prepare them for eventual destruction, and control lunatics who want to explode one over New York.
Send me your address and I'll send you a Yard House gift card for a beer. We drink one at the same time and post pictures of the beer we had right on this site. OK??

The Professor says

Strategist says

911 woke us up in such a hurry, we ended up overreacting by attacking the wrong country.

The named terrorists were mostly from Saudi Arabia. Are you suggesting we attack one of our staunchest allies in the middle east?

The county that has been the largest source of funding for madras schools (aka terrorist recrutment schools) and terrorist organizations for at least 30 years? Would have been a really good idea, but we need their oil too badly to do it.

The Professor says

Strategist says

We had tens of thousands of terrorists being trained in Afghanistan to kill us, right under our nose, and what did we do? Nothing.

Ah yes, the Mujahedin! Didn't we train and supply them?

Yes, but they were fighting the Soviets at the time. How could we have known that a militant religious group would turn on us?

The enemy of my enemy can still be an asshole.

The Professor says

Strategist says

We had tens of thousands of terrorists being trained in Afghanistan to kill us, right under our nose, and what did we do? Nothing.

Ah yes, the Mujahedin! Didn't we train and supply them?

There was a case some time back where a policeman took his gun and shot his wife or girlfriend. We trained him too. By your argument, the policeman is innocent, but the country is guilty, because we trained him.

bob2356 says

The Professor says

Strategist says

911 woke us up in such a hurry, we ended up overreacting by attacking the wrong country.

The named terrorists were mostly from Saudi Arabia. Are you suggesting we attack one of our staunchest allies in the middle east?

The county that has been the largest source of funding for madras schools (aka terrorist recrutment schools) and terrorist organizations for at least 30 years? Would have been a really good idea, but we need their oil too badly to do it.

We are in deep shit aren't we? The solution is puppet governments, where we control them until they are ready for democracy.
If there is a need for a military response in the Wild Mid East, we make sure they use their military and their money, not ours.

The Professor says

Strategist says

911 woke us up in such a hurry, we ended up overreacting by attacking the wrong country.

The named terrorists were mostly from Saudi Arabia. Are you suggesting we attack one of our staunchest allies in the middle east?

I'm suggesting we control them better, and let them send their men to die every time there is trouble in the Wild Wild Mid East.

Strategist says

There was a case some time back where a policeman took his gun and shot his wife or girlfriend. We trained him too. By your argument, the policeman is innocent, but the country is guilty, because we trained him.

If the cop had vowed that he hated all women (westerners) and wanted to kill women (westerners) and called for a jihad against women (westerners) then we trained him anyway then the answer is yes the country is guilty.

Strategist says

I'm suggesting we control them better, and let them send their men to die every time there is trouble in the Wild Wild Mid East.

Won't happen. Saudi Arabia lobbies heavily, rewards US Ambassadors, funds whole Mid East Studies Departments and Chairs (like at Columbia U.). Plus they are backed by most of America's large Oil Companies, who also lobby and propagandize.

Politicians work for donors, not the American People.

I should also note that throughout the 80s, the US helped Saddam Hussein greatly.

We gave him and arranged for other sources, to provide Saddam dual-use industrial equipment of all kinds, mustard gas ingredients, pesticides we knew he could and would dual-use for chemical weapons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riegle_Report
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war
http://www.webcitation.org/5flvP0UgC

When he gassed Iranians and then Kurdish civilians, he was our buddy. We were supplying him with the ingredients and the know-how.

We then used his gassing of Kurds as an excuse to invade, even helped arrange the delivery of the murder weapons.

Dan8267 says

The only answer to that is to convince the whole world to abandon religion.

Religion isn't the cause of these problems. You are missing cause and effect Dan.

bob2356 says

Strategist says

There was a case some time back where a policeman took his gun and shot his wife or girlfriend. We trained him too. By your argument, the policeman is innocent, but the country is guilty, because we trained him.

If the cop had vowed that he hated all women (westerners) and wanted to kill women (westerners) and called for a jihad against women (westerners) then we trained him anyway then the answer is yes the country is guilty.

That would be a reason not to allow Muslims on planes, or even into the country, because that is pretty much what their religion preaches. It would make us responsible for 911, Boston massacre, and every single terrorist act by any Muslim, because we allowed them into our country and to fly on a plane.
As the great majority of Muslims are peaceful regardless of what that Koran says, we would be opening up a whole new can of worms.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

The only answer to that is to convince the whole world to abandon religion.

Religion isn't the cause of these problems. You are missing cause and effect Dan.

Religion isn't the only cause of problems, but it is the primary cause of the constant warfare in the Middle East and the threat of a loose nuke being detonated in a major American city.

People who are looking forward to the end of the world are dangerous.

The Professor says

I will give up my belief in God when some one can explain to me the singularity right before the big bang.

Whether or not science explains why there is something instead of nothing, and whether or not you can understand the explanation, is irrelevant. The god hypothesis explains nothing.

You need a god to create the universe? Then what created that god? And if that god was not created but simply just always existed, then why not just say that for the universe. Assuming an intelligent entity that always existed is a way larger assumption than a non-intelligent one always existed.

And, why for that matter, only one god? Is there only one of anything? Only one star? Only one person? Only one grain of sand? Surely, if you believe in one god, you must expect there to be many. Why not presume it takes many gods cooperating to create a universe?

Monotheism is a far greater assumption than polytheism.

The Professor says

A computer virus will never understand the software engineer that created it. It is beyond the mind of the creation to understand the creator.

The statement It is beyond the mind of the creation to understand the creator. is demonstrably false. Today's PCs literally run virtual copies of their predecessors inside their CPUs. It is inevitable that man, if he does not destroy himself first, will create artificial intelligence that is smarter and more sentient than man himself. Such an AI would understand human beings better than any human ever has.

The Professor says

organized religion gives tyrants a way to control their populace

Disorganized religion is less evil, but it is still evil. Anything that promotes making important decisions on misinformation is a bad idea.

Strategist says

That would be a reason not to allow Muslims on planes, or even into the country, because that is pretty much what their religion preaches. It would make us responsible for 911, Boston massacre, and every single terrorist act by any Muslim, because we allowed them into our country and to fly on a plane

Try to stay on focus here. The subject was the wisdom of US providing military equipment and training to the mujahideen who morphed into the Taliban, not the religious teachings of islam. Many people in high positions said that the US involvement in afganistan sponsoring the mujahideem against the russians would come back to haunt us. The other shoe to drop was the absolutely insane decision to station US troops in Saudi Arabia. The US couldn't have done anything more effective to recruit terrorists against the US.

Arming and training what were in effect terrorists, our terrorists but terrorists nevertheless and stationing US troops in the holy land of islam is not in any way shape or form comparable to allowing muslim to enter the country or fly on airplanes. Get a grip.

Religion is not the primary "cause", it is the primary conduit.
Crazy power hungry fuckers that don't believe the shit they spout are the primary cause.

Dan8267 says

Religion isn't the only cause of problems, but it is the primary cause of the constant warfare in the Middle East

It was a wicked cocktail of strawberry banana lemonade laced with roofies...

The Professor says

I will give up my belief in God when some one can explain to me the singularity right before the big bang.

The Professor says

I will give up my belief in God when some one can explain to me the singularity right before the big bang.

English please, for the simple minds like me.
I would give up my lack of belief in God if someone can explain to me where God came from.

Dan8267 says

You need a god to create the universe? Then what created that god?

Waiting for an answer Professor.

Dan8267 says

Religion isn't the only cause of problems, but it is the primary cause of the constant warfare in the Middle East and the threat of a loose nuke being detonated in a major American city.

People who are looking forward to the end of the world are dangerous.

They are primitive so they use religion as excuse. Without religion they'll use another excuse. Vietnam was not fought over religion, neither was Korea or WW2. You focus too much on man made excuses, instead of focusing on the root of the problem.