patrick.net

thunderlips11 says

I don't see the link?

Just your link. I just keep waxing poetic about this great talk. I get excited hearing people talk about this issue--which means recognizing it in the first place.

CaptainShuddup says

You guys make it sound like wealth inequality is first a bad thing, and second something that just came along when Bush got elected.

Do you really lack the ability for nuance and detail so much?

lahossain says

Just your link. I just keep waxing poetic about this great talk. I get excited hearing people talk about this issue--which means recognizing it in the first place.

OH. I listened to it several days ago, but I know EXACTLY the questioner you're referring to. The old Posh cunt.

Wouldn't it be funny if ordinary Schmcuks got the Bankster treatment from Politicians?

"Billy Bob is here, sir."
"Show him in, show him in. Billy Bob, sir, how great to see you. I did enjoy attending the latest Nitro Burnin' Funny Car rally with you last week."
"Hey, so did I, hoss. But hoss, listen. I put all my money down on Iraqi Dinars in the name of Freedom, even HELOC'd the house. Now I can't afford any Monster Truck Rallies"
"Well, Billy Bob, you need a bailout, sir. I will lend you thousands of dollars at no interest, guarantee your mortgage, give you a subsidy and a tax write off for supporting the important Race Car and Demolition Derby Industry, and we'll pass a bill giving you funeral money for Old Yeller."
"But don't give my ex-wife, who just lost her job at Manny's Diner, any money."
"No, no Billy Bob. That would be socialism."

thunderlips11 says

Reality says

I see. Well, at least you didn't buy pets.com stock.

I brought the Iraqi Dinar to back freedom (and fund my retirement) --- and I lost it all!

https://www.safedinar.com/

Hope you learnt your lesson. Anything that says "In Allah we trust" will eventually be worth zero.

zzyzzx says

Wealth equality destroys societies:

Now I know why they say "A picture is worth a thousand words."

thunderlips11 says

Wouldn't it be funny if ordinary Schmcuks got the Bankster treatment from Politicians?

That's why communism/socialism/central-planning (central banking is one of the 10 planks proposed in the Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx) is just slavery dressed up in fancy words: owner privileges at the expense of the vast slaves.

thunderlips11 says

See above. I explained how increasingly, landlords are faceless investment trusts, rather than local well-to-do.

That's the result of central planning of money. How is this significantly different from mortgage payment to far away big banks?

Money goes out, does not necessarily come back, except in the form of more bids on more housing stock.

That is not correct. What the central banking cabal and their cronies want is not money per se (which they can print) but the fruits of labor from the economic periphery.

Furthermore, instead of Joe Sixpack having an asset where his actual job is, he's got to schlep miles away.

Renting actually provides better mobility than owning.

Since 3% yields suck anyway, it's better to have a resident owner that cares instead of increasingly absentee landlords that are number crunchers that don't give a shit.

Are you talking about local landlords vs. big banks? In that case I agree with you. Many home debtors however have proved themselves incapable of taking care of the houses. It seems to me that only about 60% of the population are capable of taking good care of their houses. The other 40% need to be housed somehow.

Bad for the economy, the environment, and certainly the trade deficit.

When you fill up your car, you fill up ISIS' coffers.

ISIS is just another leg of the Petro-Dollar Complex. The US is rapidly becoming the largest oil producer in the world.

Reality says

That's why communism/socialism/central-planning (central banking is one of the 10 planks proposed in the Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx) is just slavery dressed up in fancy words: owner privileges at the expense of the vast slaves.

Oh? Look to the left of North Korea. It sure doesn't look dim there.

Which goes to show that Capitalism != Democracy.

Reality says

ISIS is just another leg of the Petro-Dollar Complex. The US is rapidly becoming the largest oil producer in the world.

For a few years at most...

Production from wells bored into these formations declines by 60 percent to 70 percent in the first year alone, says Allen Gilmer, chairman and chief executive officer of Drillinginfo, which tracks the performance of U.S. wells. Traditional wells take two years to slide 50 percent to 55 percent, and they can keep pumping for 20 years or more.

In North Dakota’s Bakken shale, a well formally known as Robert Heuer 1-17R put out 2,358 barrels in May 2004, when it went live. The output proved there was money to be made drilling in the Bakken and kicked off an oil rush in North Dakota. Continental Resources (CLR), the well’s operator, built a monument to it. Production declined 69 percent in the first year. “I look at shale as more of a retirement party than a revolution,” says Art Berman, a petroleum geologist who spent 20 years with what was then Amoco and now runs his own firm, Labyrinth Consulting Services, in Sugar Land, Tex. “It’s the last gasp.”

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-10/u-dot-s-dot-shale-oil-boom-may-not-last-as-fracking-wells-lack-staying-power

Not to mention that traditional wells put out a lot more energy than they use; fracking consumes almost as much energy as it produces.

And one more interesting tidbit about claims:

thunderlips11 says

And one more interesting tidbit about claims:

Both those numbers are massive. The difference could be proven reserves vs. expected reserves. Just 10 million barrels per day is the size of Saudi Arabias output, and would last us 50 years without any new technologies to increase output or reserves.
Gentlemen, our energy problems have been solved.

thunderlips11 says

Reality says

That's why communism/socialism/central-planning (central banking is one of the 10 planks proposed in the Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx) is just slavery dressed up in fancy words: owner privileges at the expense of the vast slaves.

Oh? Look to the left of North Korea. It sure doesn't look dim there.

Which goes to show that Capitalism != Democracy.

Chinese economy used to be worse than that of the North Korea only 35 years ago. It was the capitalistic free market liberalization process that brought that country into a modicum of prosperity. As for Democracy, depending on what you mean by it. Majority/Mob rule is just a process for a prosperous people to destroy themselves.

Karl Marx may have been correct in observing that recorded human societal history consisted of 3 phases: slavery, feudalism and capitalism. His apocryphal "primitive communism" before slavery and post-capitalism social-communism may well be non-existential (i.e. before birth and after death for each individual, all are equal). Human society may well just cycle through the 3 phases: slavery, feudalism and capitalism. "Socialist" and "Communist" may just be tricky ways of introducing slavery to a formerly free people.

19M Barrels per day is what we consume, however.

About 7B Barrels per Year.

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=33&t=6

Assuming the companies aren't exaggerating to hype their share price and reporting accurately, and that all the reserves are accessible at a price economic to drill, their entire reserves would last the USA about 4 years.

Reality says

Oh? Look to the left of North Korea. It sure doesn't look dim there.

Which goes to show that Capitalism != Democracy.

Chinese economy used to be worse than that of the North Korea only 35 years ago. It was the capitalistic free market liberalization process that brought that country into a modicum of prosperity. As for Democracy, depending on what you mean by it.

No doubt about that. It was capitalism, only capitalism, and nothing but capitalism that propelled China to the success it is today. If communism worked, Cuba would be a superpower, instead of a pathetic basket case that drives World War 2 cars, and produces nothing of value.

We have prosperity because striking workers, who lived horrible lives of back breaking toil, struck and struck and struck, and Capitalism faced a huge crisis of underconsumption - much like today. With police getting beaten and the economy tanking, the rich panicked and listened to Keynes.

It's no surprise that as Keynes has been supplanted by Friedman, life is starting to suck again.

The rich need a solid beating now and again, when they get uppity, so everyone can prosper.

thunderlips11 says

19M Barrels per day is what we consume, however.

About 7B Barrels per Year.

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=33&t=6

Assuming the companies aren't exaggerating to hype their share price and reporting accurately, and that all the reserves are accessible at a price economic to drill, their entire reserves would last the USA about 4 years.

We already produce half of it through conventional means. That will obviously continue. So if you look at the 33billion number, it would last close to 10 years as a replacement for imports. I would go with the higher number, even though we will never use it all, because solar power will reign supreme.
In the meantime high oil prices are history. Rejoice my friends...praise the Lord.

Reality says

. As for Democracy, depending on what you mean by it. Majority/Mob rule is just a process for a prosperous people to destroy themselves.

Well, the Soviet Union and China and Saudi Arabia have no free voting, no universal suffrage.

Sweden, Norway, and Iceland, on the other hand...

Strategist says

No doubt about that. It was capitalism, only capitalism, and nothing but capitalism that propelled China to the success it is today.

It was corporate socialism: The Corporations outsourced all the jobs there, and collected tax benefits for doing so.

And in the 90s, with the help of the "Third Way" Democrats, convinced the Republican dummies and Limo Liberals that unilaterally cutting tariffs by giving one-way free trade MFN with China. China still has massive duties against most US finished goods, which is where the value-added money is (not in scrap metal and timber).

Stop listening to Oligarchs, they don't have the country's best interests in mind.

thunderlips11 says

It's no surprise that as Keynes has been supplanted by Friedman, life is starting to suck again.

Life only sucks for the countries that still foolishly embrace Marxism like Cuba. Venezuela is swimming in oil, yet their people lead pathetic lives. They would much rather sneak into America and live the good life by collecting welfare. Religious nations like Saudi arabia are even worse, surviving on their oil lottery, which will soon be worthless. oooohh, I can hardly wait. :)

thunderlips11 says

Strategist says

No doubt about that. It was capitalism, only capitalism, and nothing but capitalism that propelled China to the success it is today.

It was corporate socialism: The Corporations outsourced all the jobs there, and collected tax benefits for doing so.

Corporations do not outsource jobs unless they profit from it. China was competitive, hard working and talented, which led them to be the country with the lowest manufacturing costs in the world. Even other third world countries find it cheaper to import from them. Now they have billionaires coming out the wazoo.

Strategist says

Venezuela is swimming in oil, yet their people lead pathetic lives.

Like Nigeria?

Mexico is a paradise for Juan Average, I hear.

Strategist says

Corporations do not outsource jobs unless they profit from it.

Did I say they didn't?

Strategist says

China was competitive, hard working and talented, which led them to be the country with the lowest manufacturing costs in the world.

That and they work people 72 hours a week for chump change. And disappear any pesky democracy activists, unionizers, etc. for involuntary organ donation.

Vietnam also.

Companies didn't outsource to China for glittering generalities about work ethics. They went there for cheap labor, no environmental laws, etc.

thunderlips11 says

Strategist says

Venezuela is swimming in oil, yet their people lead pathetic lives.

Like Nigeria?

I checked. Venezuela has the worlds largest proven reserves, yet they can't produce much because they hate America. Nigeria produces 2 million per day.

History of the Venezuelan oil industry
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Real and Nominal price of oil from 1968 to 2006.[1]
Venezuela is the world's fifth largest oil exporting country and has the world's largest proven oil reserves at an estimated 296.5 billion barrels (20% of global reserves) as of 2012. In 2008, crude oil production in Venezuela was the tenth-highest in the world at 2,394,020 barrels per day (380,619 m3/d) and the country was also the eighth-largest net oil exporter in the world. Venezuela is a founder member of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC).[2]

Strategist says

Venezuela has the worlds largest proven reserves, yet they can't produce much because they hate America.

Or, many of the reserves are uneconomic unless the price of oil is high.

Interesting chart here. I find Colombia's GDP per Capita very interesting... relative to Venezuela.

But the media is always hyping Colombia as a great success thanks to liberal policies, and VZ as a basket case!

All hail the Pink Tide, producing growth after the 80s and 90s were full of Chicago Boy Bad Advice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_tide

thunderlips11 says

Or, many of the reserves are uneconomic unless the price of oil is high.

Technology will change that

indigenous says

Technology will change that

You mean, the price of oil will change that :-).

thunderlips11 says

My only regret is the market I brought it in. If I had brought in Miami, I would have doubled my money.

Why do you repeatedly write "brought" when it should be "bought"? Is that your german accent?

Habit - I didn't even realize I was doing it.

I blame the federal reserve, and the illuminati Jewish-Jesuit banking cabal.

thunderlips11 says

We have prosperity because striking workers, who lived horrible lives of back breaking toil, struck and struck and struck,

This is complete utter hogwash. Massive numbers of economic immigrants came to the US from Europe during the Guilded Age. Those were people who left behind the proto welfare-state inaugerated by Bismarck so they could start a new life in America, the land of the free: free to toil and make something of yourself for a change! It's silly to think striking could bring prosperity; the Communists among European immigrants were the late 19th century equivalent of today's Jihadis!

and Capitalism faced a huge crisis of underconsumption - much like today.

No it does not. Mal-investment is also a form of consumption, whether by private sector or by public sector coercive choice.

With police getting beaten and the economy tanking, the rich panicked and listened to Keynes.

Nonsense. Keynesian policies were implemented before Keynes wrote the book. Keynes only provided an intellectual cover for what was already being done in Soviet Union, Italy, Japan, and Nazi Germany: fascism! All those countries went down the road of massive government spending to induce make-belief employment in the 1920's and early 1930's. Keynes did not have his book ("General Theory") until 1936!

It's no surprise that as Keynes has been supplanted by Friedman, life is starting to suck again.

After Keynesianism gave way to Friedmanites in the late 1970's, we had two decades of prosperity, through the year 2000, and the economy went through virtuous cycles as people endeavor to be more productive, instead of trying to rip each other off.

The rich need a solid beating now and again, when they get uppity, so everyone can prosper.

LOL. When the ethos is about ripping each other off, it just means the vicious cycles have to continue a little longer, and life has to continue suck for a while until morons give up on trying to make others' lives worse in hopes of making their own better.

thunderlips11 says

indigenous says

Technology will change that

You mean, the price of oil will change that :-).

No, he means what he says. New technologies that make it cheaper and easier to find and extract the oil.

thunderlips11 says

You mean, the price of oil will change that :-).

82 dollars a barrel says you have that backwards, or at least sideways

Also this from an excellent source of info:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-14/5-reasons-oil-prices-are-dropping

Reality says

This is complete utter hogwash. Massive numbers of economic immigrants came to the US from Europe during the Guilded Age. Those were people who left behind the proto welfare-state inaugerated by Bismarck so they could start a new life in America, the land of the free: free to toil and make something of yourself for a change! It's silly to think striking could bring prosperity; the Communists among European immigrants were the late 19th century equivalent of today's Jihadis!

It was when the nice people banks and factories ran some calculations and said "Schucks, we can pay workers more." and did so out of the goodness of their hearts.

No Great Depression and massive labor unrest had anything to do with it. Hoover had the situation in hand! Especially once he had MacArthur and Patton run down all the WW1 Veterans.

Reality says

Mal-investment is also a form of consumption, whether by private sector or by public sector coercive choice.

This sounds very Keynesian. Like dropping money from a helicopter, or burying money just to create economic activity by having people dig for it.

Reality says

After Keynesianism gave way to Friedmanites in the late 1970's, we had two decades of prosperity, through the year 2000, and the economy went through virtuous cycles as people endeavor to be more productive, instead of trying to rip each other off.

Two decades of a credit expansion... culminating in two massive bubbles where the government had to rescue the Die Hard Free Marketeers with trillions of dollars.

Things looked great in the 20s, too. Lots of credit expansion, also.

It was the "weakest" recovery in Post War History.

Reality says

, instead of trying to rip each other off.

S&L Crisis, Pets.com, the LTCM bailout?

Reality says

When the ethos is about ripping each other off, it just means the vicious cycles have to continue a little longer, and life has to continue suck for a while until morons give up on trying to make others' lives worse in hopes of making their own better.

No matter how much the Right tries to spin, they can never get away from the fact that the US at it's most Social Democrat had the greatest expansion in the standard of living, ever. No other time period - not the Rothbardian Wildcat Banking Era, not the 80s or 90s - can even come close.

The only time period since 1980 where there was actual upward wage pressure was the late 90s - and businesses quickly lobbied government to whip out those H1-Bs ASAP!

thunderlips11 says

Reality says

. As for Democracy, depending on what you mean by it. Majority/Mob rule is just a process for a prosperous people to destroy themselves.

Well, the Soviet Union and China and Saudi Arabia have no free voting, no universal suffrage.

Sweden, Norway, and Iceland, on the other hand...

A regime can persist only by majority consent. Saudi Arabian regime certainly has majority consent for most of its policies. The Soviet Union and China always had rubber-stamping elections, resulting in near-100% approval rating. LOL. Even Stalin always had to live by a majority in the Politburo; he just killed off those in the minority at each turn.

The key to a functional and prosperous society is preserving the rights of the political minority, not majority rule.

thunderlips11 says

It was when the nice people banks and factories ran some calculations and said "Schucks, we can pay workers more." and did so out of the goodness of their hearts.

No Great Depression and massive labor unrest had anything to do with it. Hoover had the situation in hand! Especially once he had MacArthur and Patton run down all the WW1 Veterans.

Hoover started the Great Depression by preventing the market from clearing. FDR ran on a platform of abolishing Hoover's myriads of government committees that were designed to keep prices up . . . then he continued and exacerbated Hoover's programs after being elected. Just like the W and Obama 1-2 punch. The Great Depression and the Great Recession are not co-incidences.

thunderlips11 says

Reality says

Mal-investment is also a form of consumption, whether by private sector or by public sector coercive choice.

This sounds very Keynesian. Like dropping money from a helicopter, or burying money just to create economic activity by having people dig for it.

LOL. You think that somehow digging for money is better than bankruptcy writing off bad debts? You are so buried in consumption-mindedness that you failed to recognize: consumption is no different from investment gone bad! Your advocacy for consumption is essentially advocating for bad investments!

thunderlips11 says

After Keynesianism gave way to Friedmanites in the late 1970's, we had two decades of prosperity, through the year 2000, and the economy went through virtuous cycles as people endeavor to be more productive, instead of trying to rip each other off.

Two decades of a credit expansion... culminating in two massive bubbles where the government had to rescue the Die Hard Free Marketeers with trillions of dollars.

Things looked great in the 20s, too. Lots of credit expansion, also.

It was the "weakest" recovery in Post War History.

The government did not have to "rescue" anyone. It was the interventionists like yourself who advocated government stepping in to rescue the cronies, at the expense of the rest of the society.

thunderlips11 says

, instead of trying to rip each other off.

S&L Crisis, Pets.com, the LTCM bailout?

Pets.com did go bankrupt, and that's how capitalistic price discovery works: resources get re-allocated from incompetents to those who can do better. As for the bailouts, those were crony projects advocated by Keynesian FED apologists like yourself.

thunderlips11 says

No matter how much the Right tries to spin, they can never get away from the fact that the US at it's most Social Democrat had the greatest expansion in the standard of living, ever.

Nonsense. The fastest improvement in living standards took place in the late 19th century and early 20th century, the Guilded Age. The US was far from Social Democratic during that time; in fact, any social democrats arriving from Europe were treated as communists and "anarchists" like we treat Jihadis today.

The only time period since 1980 where there was actual upward wage pressure was the late 90s - and businesses quickly lobbied government to whip out those H1-Bs ASAP!

Why should it be a surprise that businesses would lobby a nexus of political power? Do you let your tenant pass their apartment to their relative when you know you can get substantially more in the market place? Do you let your tenant live in your property for free? If you do not run your business as a charity, why should anyone else be expected to?

Reality says

Hoover started the Great Depression by preventing the market from clearing

You're kidding, right? Treasury Secretary Mellon said to Hoover, "Liquidate** Everything... liquidate businesses, liquidate workers, liquidate Aunt Jemima, etc. etc."

Hoover instead had sit downs with large companies and tried to get them not to fire anybody or cut wages.

That's literally it. That was the extent of Hoover's interference with "Clearing the Markets".

If he did anything beyond that, it sure didn't work. Wages fell and unemployment exploded.

** Also a popular euphemism for "Murder"