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Why Police Raids should be illegal


               
2014 Dec 10, 3:28pm   40,947 views  128 comments

by Dan8267   follow (4)  

Cops do 20,000 no-knock raids a year. Civilians often pay the price when they go wrong.

Most of the time, when a person kills an intruder who breaks into his home, dressed in all black and screaming, the homeowner will avoid jail time. But what happens when the break-in was a no-knock SWAT raid, the intruder was a police officer, and the homeowner has a record?

Turns out that it depends entirely on the prejudices of the jury.

The Fourth Amendment protects citizens from "unreasonable search," meaning police can't bust into your home whenever they feel like it — they need a warrant, granted by a judge. Even a search warrant doesn't give police the right to enter your home by force — they're supposed to knock, announce themselves, and give you a chance to open the door.

But as the war on drugs ramped up in the 1970s and 1980s, police argued that criminals and drug dealers were too dangerous to be granted the typical courtesy of knocking first. In the early 1970s, the federal government made it legal for federal law enforcement agents to conduct no-knock raids — but the law was so widely abused that it was repealed a few years later.

Since then, though, a series of court decisions and state laws have carved out a set of circumstances that make it legal for police to raid a house without announcing their presence beforehand. This has happened at the same time that SWAT teams have proliferated around the country.

Most SWAT teams spend their time carrying out home raids. The ACLU analyzed 818 records of SWAT exercises from police departments around the country in 2011 and 2012. They found that 80 percent of the time, SWAT teams were deployed to execute a search warrant — instead of crises such as hostage situations or active shooters.

thanks to civil asset forfeiture, raiding a home lets cops seize whatever drug money (or other illegal money) is being stored there — and perhaps even the home itself — and use it for their own departments.

It's rare that judges deny warrants for no-knock raids.

Back in 2000, the Denver Post analyzed a year's worth of no-knock warrants and found that judges rejected five out of 163 requests. The Post also found that, 10 percent of the time, a judge would approve a no-knock raid even when police had simply asked for a standard warrant.

In other cases, police have said they need to conduct a no-knock SWAT raid when homeowners have legally registered guns — to the outrage of conservatives and libertarians.

So much for gun rights. Own a gun, the police shoot you on site.

There isn't great data, but the ACLU's analysis showed that about 35 percent of SWAT drug raids turned up contraband, while 36 percent of them turned up nothing. (And 29 percent of SWAT reports didn't mention whether they found anything — a fact police are more likely to omit when they didn't find anything than when they did.) In forced-entry SWAT raids, the "success" rate of actually finding drugs dropped to about a 25 percent.

In 2003, the commissioner of the NYPD estimated that, of the more than 450 no-knock raids the city conducted every month, 10 percent were wrong-door raids. That estimate came after a wrong-door raid resulted in the homeowner's death: when police broke into the home of 57-year-old Alberta Spruill and threw in a flash-bang grenade, the shock gave her a fatal heart attack.

In some of these cases, the target of the raid might reasonably claim self-defense; the law allows a homeowner to defend himself against someone he thinks is an intruder. But unlike when a cop shoots a civilian in a raid, a homeowner doesn't have a police chief on hand to tell a jury that the shooting was justified. So, as Guy's case demonstrates, even though civilians are more likely to get killed in SWAT raids than cops, civilians are the ones more likely to get brought into court for murder.

9 Horrifying Botched Police Raids

Police are often amped up for a SWAT-style raid, and suspects or innocent people behind the wrong door often believe that they are being attacked.

Sometimes they fire a weapon at cops thinking they are being burglarized. Sometimes the cops fire at them because they see something in their hands. Sometimes the police just make elementary mistakes.

What follows is a baleful litany of botched raids that include chainsawing through the door of the wrong address, executing friendly family dogs in front of weeping children and slamming grandmothers into the wall.

Mother watches her door get chainsawed and then gets held at gunpoint in front of her crying daughter. Oops! Wrong Address.

Police break a guy's arm and laugh at him. Turns out he isn't a drug dealer.

Police looking for a stolen X-Box slam a grandmother into the wall and execute two dogs in front of the kids. No stolen goods.

Cops knock. Teenagers open and offer to tie up dog. Police refuse and then shoot it. Arrest one teen. No drugs. No conviction.

Cops in Broward County get a bad address then end up in a guns-drawn standoff with the local judge.

Framingham SWAT Officer shoots and kills an unarmed grandfather while he was laying face down on the floor.

Computer glitch leads NY cops to conduct successive raids on elderly couple's home for 8 years

Minneapolis police burn the flesh off an innocent woman's leg with a flash-bang grenade

SWAT Team puts 22 bullets into a former Marine, while his wife and child cower in a closet. Nothing illegal found.

Even murdering veterans who committed no wrong isn't below the police.

At this point, anyone who says it's just a few bad apples is delusional.

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50   bob2356   2014 Dec 11, 5:03pm  

FortWayne says

I can explain it. Because we allowed government to carve out instances where they can take away our rights as they please. And that allowed government to use their own personal prejudices to screw Americans on their personal level of asshole in their brain.

And if liberals fought against those kinds of injustices, instead of just whining about racism, we'd probably have a coherent fight against big brother.

Is this a joke? Last I checked conservatives spend a great deal of time complaining about liberals being too soft on criminals and protecting criminals rights against injustices. You know that liberal ACLU thing.

Since I find it impossible to believe anyone in america can be unaware of which end of the political spectrum is always calling for more police, stricter laws, and continued erosion of civil rights this has to either be satire or the greatest example of self delusion in the history of the world.

51   bob2356   2014 Dec 11, 5:12pm  

FortWayne says

It is a crime and it is a big deal, because it almost always leads to "retardation". It is why it was outlawed in the first place.

and masterbation leads to blindness and hairy palms. Really, its' true.

Vice is nice, but incest is best. I'm also all in favor of as many gay guys as possible. Leaves more available women for me. If you do want to go to the dark side woody allen says being bi doubles your chance of a date on any given saturday night.

52   bob2356   2014 Dec 11, 5:45pm  

Dan8267 says

No, you're thinking of religion. It is religion that disrupts society. For example, Christianity has set back Western Civilization by a thousand years. Nothing has ever disrupted civilization on such a massive scale.

Not all religions disrupt society in the negative way the catholic church affected europe. Science and arts advanced very nicely from the rise of islam until the invasion of the mongols. Technology and infrastructure flourished. The so called islamic golden age. After the mamluks drove out the mongols the mughal, safavid, and ottoman empires were very progressive. The eastern religions of Hinduism and Buddhism didn't hold back science either. Modern Islam is very different than pre colonization Islam. Modern Islam is pretty much a result of what was basically a post WWI oil grab by the west followed by post colonial leaders using Islam as a tool to further their own ends creating a permanent angry underclass throughout the middle east.

53   indigenous   2014 Dec 11, 10:04pm  

Dan8267 says

No, you're thinking of religion. It is religion that disrupts society. For example, Christianity has set back Western Civilization by a thousand years. Nothing has ever disrupted civilization on such a massive scale.

Yet it never occurs to you that government overreach has anything to do with it...

54   Dan8267   2014 Dec 11, 11:19pm  

bob2356 says

Not all religions disrupt society in the negative way the catholic church affected europe.

All religions demand irrationality and belief in contradiction of evidence. That alone is disruptive to society and corrosive to any foundation of ethics and wisdom upon which to run society and the government.

55   Dan8267   2014 Dec 11, 11:22pm  

indigenous says

Dan8267 says

No, you're thinking of religion. It is religion that disrupts society. For example, Christianity has set back Western Civilization by a thousand years. Nothing has ever disrupted civilization on such a massive scale.

Yet it never occurs to you that government overreach has anything to do with it...

Government giving preferential treatments to religion over other enterprises by, say giving religions tax-free status, is government overreach and should be stopped.

But make no mistake, the giant hole left by Christianity has nothing to do with government and everything to do with the Christian religion burning people at the stake for proposing that the Earth revolves around the sun or that extra-terrestrial life might exist.

56   indigenous   2014 Dec 11, 11:41pm  

Dan8267 says

Government

Not that you will hear a word I'm saying. A rule of law allows an economy to exist. But once it metastasizes into that economy the end begins.

So the religious "cause" is just a correlation and you miss the point that crazy religion is just a symptom.

57   Tenpoundbass   2014 Dec 12, 12:21am  

Or it could be argued that homosexualtiy and debatchery killed civilization and brought about the dark ages.

58   Bigsby   2014 Dec 12, 12:30am  

CaptainShuddup says

Or it could be argued that homosexualtiy and debatchery killed civilization and brought about the dark ages.

I'd like to see that argument. Fire away.

59   indigenous   2014 Dec 12, 12:56am  

Bigsby says

I'd like to see that argument. Fire away.

Genocidal suicide for the Roman culture, Taken over by the Christians.

IOW they gave up the very thing that got them to where they were. I.E. sodomy is not procreation.

60   Dan8267   2014 Dec 12, 1:05am  

indigenous says

Not that you will hear a word I'm saying.

From your lips to your fictitious god's ears.

61   Dan8267   2014 Dec 12, 1:08am  

CaptainShuddup says

Or it could be argued that homosexualtiy and debatchery killed civilization and brought about the dark ages.

Yes, and one would be a moron to make that argument. Alan Turing was homosexual and he was the smartest person in human history, with the possible exception of Friedrich Gauss, and he advanced the field of computability more than most people, including yourself, could possibly understand.

But feel free to make that argument and look like a moron. I look forward to ridiculing it.

62   indigenous   2014 Dec 12, 1:11am  

Dan8267 says

From your lips to your fictitious god's ears.

There you go, when you talk to mutts...

63   Bigsby   2014 Dec 12, 1:17am  

indigenous says

Bigsby says

I'd like to see that argument. Fire away.

Genocidal suicide for the Roman culture, Taken over by the Christians.

IOW they gave up the very thing that got them to where they were. I.E. sodomy is not procreation.

I actually laughed when I read that. You make Bgamall's posts sound coherent in comparison.

64   indigenous   2014 Dec 12, 1:20am  

Bigsby says

I actually laughed when I read that.

Doesn't surprise me, I'll bet you answer out of context a lot as well...

65   Bigsby   2014 Dec 12, 1:23am  

indigenous says

Bigsby says

I actually laughed when I read that.

Doesn't surprise me, I'll bet you answer out of context a lot as well...

Out of context would still be preferable to the baseless drivel that you seem to have a proclivity for posting.

66   indigenous   2014 Dec 12, 1:31am  

Bigsby says

Out of context would still be preferable to the baseless drivel that you seem to have a proclivity for posting

Fuck off.

I back mine up better than any of you mutts.

67   FortWayne   2014 Dec 16, 3:15am  

Peter P says

FortWayne says

It is a crime and it is a big deal, because it almost always leads to "retardation". It is why it was outlawed in the first place.

It is a crime in America but not in France. It will not lead to retardation if there is no offspring. What is the point of having kids anyway? If genetics is the concern, then perhaps a man and a woman must be screened before they are allowed to marry?

Back in the days, they made you take a blood test to make sure you can have an offspring that is healthy.

Marriage was for children, that is the only point to marriage. Liberals just never got it, too busy boozing and drugging themselves up to realize how they are damaging the very structure of society for their personal sick pleasures.

68   Dan8267   2014 Dec 16, 4:17am  

FortWayne says

Marriage was for children, that is the only point to marriage.

Then why do infertile couples marry?

Then why do old widows remarry?

Then why do women marry men who have a life sentence and cannot father their children?

Children are not even the primary reason for marriage. A man proposes because he wants to spend the rest of his wife with a woman he loves, regardless of whether or not he or she wants children.

Women with no intention of having children get marry because they want to live with the love of their life.

Even couples who intended to have children and find out that one or both of them cannot, usually don't divorce because of it. Many people have remained with an infertile mate because they love their spouse and have even sacrificed the ability to have children to remain marry to that person.

So, no, you are wrong.

And if you gave a rat's ass about children, then you'd accept gay marriage simply because a lot of financially secure gay couples could adopt children who otherwise will grow up in state-run orphanages and have shitty lives. With gay marriage, many children can be saved, live in loving homes, and get the parental and financial support to become productive members of society instead of living on welfare for the rest of their lives.

69   Peter P   2014 Dec 16, 9:01am  

FortWayne says

Marriage was for children, that is the only point to marriage.

Where did you get this idea?

Marriage is all about community property and the synergy of cash-flow. It can also be viewed as a form of risk arbitrage.

If marriage was for children, how could anyone be born out of wedlock?

70   Peter P   2014 Dec 16, 9:03am  

sbh says

What does a clitoris have to do with a uterus?

To compete with the G-spot?

71   Peter P   2014 Dec 16, 9:04am  

I am so tired of people who think anything fun must be sinful. They are bringing hell on earth for themselves.

72   Strategist   2014 Dec 16, 9:09am  

FortWayne says

Marriage was for children, that is the only point to marriage.

Silly.

73   anonymous   2014 Dec 16, 9:11am  

Peter P says

I am so tired of people who think anything fun must be sinful. They are bringing hell on earth for themselves.

I have up headaching over right and wrong, long ago

I figure, if it feels good , go with it

74   Peter P   2014 Dec 16, 9:24am  

Invariably, atrocities in human history happened because somebody wanted to do the "right" thing.

75   FortWayne   2014 Dec 16, 10:40am  

Peter P says

If marriage was for children, how could anyone be born out of wedlock?

You think about it, I'm sure you can figure it out.

76   Dan8267   2014 Dec 16, 10:42am  

sbh says

waterboarding the baby jesus!!!

Well, he is a good-for-nothing Arab.

77   FortWayne   2014 Dec 16, 10:43am  

Peter P says

I am so tired of people who think anything fun must be sinful. They are bringing hell on earth for themselves.

Maybe we are tired of all the nuts sabotaging our society for their personal sick pleasures thinking they are entitled to everything in the world.

That's the problem with you liberals, you have no moral or personal restraint and think everyone around you should live like that. And that kind of society doesn't survive.

We got rules, don't like it than move to doasyoupleasestan.

78   Peter P   2014 Dec 16, 11:03am  

FortWayne says

That's the problem with you liberals, you have no moral or personal restraint and think everyone around you should live like that. And that kind of society doesn't survive.

We got rules, don't like it than move to doasyoupleasestan.

No, we will *never* force you to have fun. And you are free to live by your own rules.

79   indigenous   2014 Dec 16, 11:10am  

Peter P says

No, we will *never* force you to have fun. And you are free to live by your own rules.

Actually Liberals depend heavilly on using force.

80   Strategist   2014 Dec 16, 11:16am  

FortWayne says

We got rules, don't like it than move to doasyoupleasestan.

Isn't that what America is? FREE. doasyoupleasestan.
This country was founded by people escaping religious persecution. We are the number one destination of 7 billion people looking for freedom and opportunity.

81   Dan8267   2014 Dec 16, 12:16pm  

FortWayne says

Maybe we are tired of all the nuts sabotaging our society for their personal sick pleasures thinking they are entitled to everything in the world.

Maybe we are all tired of all the nuts in your religion sabotaging our society for your sick perverted religion and evil, false god thinking you are entitled to everything in the world.

Last time I checked, homosexuals were just demanding equality under law. Anyone who would deny them that is not a real American.

FortWayne says

That's the problem with you liberals, you have no moral or personal restraint and think everyone around you should live like that.

No, you're thinking of conservatives. They are the ones who are pro-torture. They are the ones who destroy the Earth's ecosystem for profits. They are the ones who invade countries to steal natural resources. They are the ones who were slavers and purveyors of genocide. In the fight of good against evil, conservatives have been on the side of evil every single time in the past 400 years of our society. Yes, going back even pre-revolution.

Moral restraint means not blowing up schools and children in response to terrorism. Moral restraint means not gunning down innocent people in the war on drugs. Moral restraint means not letting the police strip search people stopped at traffic lights or arrested for minor (hell even major) crimes. Moral restraint means not polluting the Earth and killing off half the world's wildlife to increase profits. Moral restraint means doing whatever it takes to reverse Climate Change. Moral restraint means being liberal.

82   Strategist   2014 Dec 16, 12:19pm  

Dan8267 says

sbh says

waterboarding the baby jesus!!!

Well, he is a good-for-nothing Arab.

He was a Jew, and he turned water into wine. Now that's entrepreneurship. So far I have managed to turn wine into urine.

83   Peter P   2014 Dec 16, 12:23pm  

Dan8267 says

Moral restraint means doing whatever it takes to reverse Climate Change.

No, that is plain ignorance and arrogance. What makes you think we can reverse the effects? We should just react to the changes.

84   Dan8267   2014 Dec 16, 1:05pm  

Peter P says

No, that is plain ignorance and arrogance.

Feel free to back up that assertion with actual evidence.

Peter P says

What makes you think we can reverse the effects?

Negative feedback mechanisms in the ecosystem. If we stop polluting, those mechanisms take over. If we continue polluting, those mechanisms get overloaded and break. It's a math thing; you wouldn't understand.

85   Dan8267   2014 Dec 16, 1:05pm  

Strategist says

So far I have managed to turn wine into urine.

And words into horse shit.

86   Peter P   2014 Dec 16, 2:14pm  

Climate scientists, like other academians, make things unnecessarily complicated to justify their existence.

I know a charlatan when I see one.

87   Peter P   2014 Dec 16, 2:21pm  

Any measure to "reverse" climate change represents poor risk/reward at best. A reasonable society will attempt to benefit from the consequences while others waste time doing the "right" thing.

Alas, most countries will try to make the most noise and do the least anyway. Classic game theory. Just like "life" in Macbeth, full of sound and fury, and that's it.

Anyone who counts on humanity to save the world is dumb beyond hope. Charles Darwin Award goes to ...

88   FortWayne   2014 Dec 17, 4:25am  

Strategist says

FortWayne says

We got rules, don't like it than move to doasyoupleasestan.

Isn't that what America is? FREE. doasyoupleasestan.

This country was founded by people escaping religious persecution. We are the number one destination of 7 billion people looking for freedom and opportunity.

There is no religious persecution here. Gays have pretty good life, and don't talk to me about founding principles in this country, because they'd probably stone you back in 1776 if you were openly gay right here in America.

89   Peter P   2014 Dec 17, 4:50am  

Marriage ought to be allowed between/among 2 or more persons of the same kind (natural or corporate).

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