patrick.net

cloud15 says

Logan, What's yiur predicting for prices in SF Bay Area ?

Hopefully they would be flat or fall for the sake of the people their.

However, pricing power still looks good enough to eek out of a gain for 2015.

That market now
2014 Median 2013 Median
San Francisco County $1,050,000 $852,000 23.24%

% change from previous year

http://www.dqnews.com/charts/monthly-charts/ca-city-charts/zipcar.aspx

San Francisco is a very unique market due to high end $$$ and inventory levels that tie to the high end of an economic cycle

This is why I left the Bay Area years ago and will never move back. Only the uber rich or suckers would move there now.

debyne says

This is why I left the Bay Area years ago and will never move back. Only the uber rich or suckers would move there now.

California itself is a housing inflation nightmare.

My model shows that 82% of working population ( X out the Rich) Cash & 3X median income 189K are priced out housing

I go into California housing in my recent interview with Bloomberg Financial at he BNY Mellon Stock conference

http://loganmohtashami.com/2014/12/04/bloomberg-financial-interview-at-the-bny-mellon-conference-housing-reality/

Logan Mohtashami says

California itself is a housing inflation nightmare.

My model shows that 82% of working population ( X out the Rich) Cash & 3X median income 189K are priced out housing

Do you think prices in CA will eventually buckle and come back to reality?

debyne says

Do you think prices in CA will eventually buckle and come back to reality?

Main Street Reality, not likely

CA is 2 Tier state, broken into 6 it has the 3 richest and 3 poorest states in America.

This state has wealth and high incomes. However, that portion is small compared to the rest.

So, home prices dropping below enough to make sense for the majority is probably unlikely.

You have a lot people with cash both foreign and domestic that step in with CA homes. Then you have group of California residents who make money with every up turn in the cycle

CA has a rental inflation crisis which impacts more of it's citizens, over 50% of L.A. residents are living in multiple households

On the new home sale side of the equation which is only 1/11th of sales today. The MI2MP model deviated at the start of the century

debyne says

This is why I left the Bay Area years ago and will never move back. Only the uber rich or suckers would move there now.

The people who leave CA, from what I see, besides a job factor, it's been cost of shelter is much cheaper from the low end to high end of the market.

If you have a well high paying job 3X median income household then it's not a place to live with the weather and all. However, it's dam pricey on all fronts

Logan Mohtashami says

debyne says

This is why I left the Bay Area years ago and will never move back. Only the uber rich or suckers would move there now.

The people who leave CA, from what I see, besides a job factor, it's been cost of shelter is much cheaper from the low end to high end of the market.

If you have a well high paying job 3X median income household then it's not a place to live with the weather and all. However, it's dam pricey on all fronts

I'm actually now in San Diego, which is MUCH cheaper than the BA to live than people think. Before that, I was in Seattle and it was about the same COL as San Diego...San Diego would be cheaper than Seattle if not for CA state income taxes.

debyne says

CA state income taxes.

Yes!

anonymous says

retirement there is more I want to do than pay high prices at every turn.

retirement in California, that will be for the very wealthy, very expensive to retire here in the up coming decades

Logan, do you have any insight on the Las Vegas market?

Mandy Lifeboats says

Logan, do you have any insight on the Las Vegas market?

Off the top of my head if I remember right per the last report

Sales were down 8% year over year
Cash buyers falling from 43% to 32%
Inventory is up over 20%

Non distress sales were up year over year

Vegas had a big rise in inventory in 2014 but total sales fell and cash buyers not getting the deals they got before so they are falling

You would think that people here in Las Vegas would be worried given the info but my impression is that they feel bad times are behind them and there's only smooth sailing ahead.

Thank you.

Going forward as well, the past housing cycles rates have been lower for a lot housing cycles, almost impossible to have that trend unless the 10 year breaks under 1%

debyne says

San Diego, which is MUCH cheaper than the BA to live

not if you have kids, and wish to use public schools.

debyne says

CA state income taxes.

CA is home to roughly 1/3 of the entire country's welfare recipients.

Logan Mohtashami says

California itself is a housing inflation nightmare.

My model shows that 82% of working population ( X out the Rich) Cash & 3X median income 189K are priced out housing

we are over that threshold but have around $2250 per month in daycare costs. very nightmarish indeed! silver lining is that we will bring 100k cash and full income capacity to the housing market once we reach K-5 school age. just need to be patient for now.

landtof says

$2250 per month in daycare costs

This is why I always talk about LTI as well liability to Income doesn't get discussed much

landtof says

debyne says

San Diego, which is MUCH cheaper than the BA to live

not if you have kids, and wish to use public schools.

Not true. If you compare BA (not outskirts) and SD home prices in good school districts, BA prices are SIGNIFICANTLY higher. I've lived in both places with kids in schools, so I have first hand knowledge.

debyne says

Not true. If you compare BA (not outskirts) and SD home prices in good school districts, BA prices are SIGNIFICANTLY higher. I've lived in both places with kids in schools, so I have first hand knowledge.

there are only 2 good districts in the entire county - and only one near the coast. please don't tell me that 3bd houses well over $1M are MUCH cheaper than anything.

Re: Vegas...I join those who somewhat regret not buying in 2012. I was ready, willing and able but my LL wanted $50K (30%) over the average estimate at the time (he said it was what he owed - not likely.)

Now I've spent an additional 20K in rent (still in same place, much of my time taken up caring for elderly family member who is quite ill) and feel stupid as prices for house around me have sailed well past what he wanted. (Lately, they're falling.)

A good bit of my hesitation was the neighborhood being marginal; now it is looking even more sketchy than it was at that time. I also thought that prices would to continue to go down and that we might be able to buy in a better area :-p

landtof says

debyne says

Not true. If you compare BA (not outskirts) and SD home prices in good school districts, BA prices are SIGNIFICANTLY higher. I've lived in both places with kids in schools, so I have first hand knowledge.

there are only 2 good districts in the entire county - and only one near the coast. please don't tell me that 3bd houses well over $1M are MUCH cheaper than anything.

Which two? If you compare SD's Poway school district and Cupertino's school disctrict, housing prices within each are not even on the same planet.

that's like saying Foothill Ranch in OC is cheaper than Cupertino, so OC is MUCH cheaper to live than the SFBA. it's simply not true. try Irvine and Newport Beach to compare apples with apples.

if you go west of Poway Unified, you will find that RSF, Collins Ranch, Fairbanks Ranch, Carmel Valley, Del Mar, and Solana Beach are very comparable to SFBA house prices. and i forgot about Coronado, that ain't cheap either.

it does depend on geography and schools. Poway Unified is certainly one option if you are OK with inland geography and weather, and there are even pockets within that can be pricey.

i have lived in SD for almost 9 years and have yet to become OK with living anywhere but the coast. have accepted that it will take over $1M to ever afford a house here - and that sounds a whole lot like the SFBA, no?