patrick.net

hanera says

Your post #29 quoted many Apple failures

I'm sure there are plenty of failures after Jobs left. I just don't keep up.

hanera says

Mac's market share has been increasing for the past recent quarters.

Mac's current market share is 0%.

hanera says

If include iPad as the same category as Mac and PC, market share of iPad/Mac is way higher than PC-Windows/Android tablets.

If you include dogs as cats than cats make great pets...

However, you are still wrong on your stats.

According to Apple Insider, Apple has sold a total of 170 million iPads. That's quaint. Meanwhile, over four billion PCs have been sold where PC is defined as carrying an Intel x86 processor. And that's not including virtual PCs, which would increase the number by a factor of ten.

Of course popularity does not imply the best platform. Beta-max was superior to VHS, but lost that war. But if you're going to quote numbers, you need to get them right.

And if you are going to evaluate the success of a technology, you have to look at what technologies today's tech is based on. When you do video editing on a iPad, your using the MMX and XMM instructions that Intel built into their processors. It would not be possible to do any real video editing without those instructions. When you run two programs at once, you're using preemptive multitasking, again brought to you by Intel. You are also using multithreading, which first appeared in OS/2 and then Windows, and only much later in Unix, and never in an Apple OS. There are millions of such examples.

Thank the PC, OS/2, Windows, Unix, and Palm OS for everything you like about iPhones and iPads.

Peter P says

However, Apple runs an extremely effective religion

Exactly. And that's why I do not respect the opinion of their disciples. It's not based on knowledge or understanding.

hanera says

Bigsby says

There sure are a lot of people online who claim to have been Apple investors in 1997.

Many? I thought most are way before that date or in 2002-3.

Hmm, I'm pretty sure 1997 is one of the commonly referenced low points for stock purchases. $13 in December...

Dan8267,

Thank you for the discourse, have to stop replying you for reason you should know.

Bigsby says

hanera says

Bigsby says

There sure are a lot of people online who claim to have been Apple investors in 1997.

Many? I thought most are way before that date or in 2002-3.

Hmm, I'm pretty sure 1997 is one of the commonly referenced low points for stock purchases. $13 in December...

To be clearer, didn't do a lump sum purchase in 1997. Buy regularly between 1997-2003 regardless of price. Btw, I'm neither an Apple badge or an American citizen.

To be even clearer, didn't buy anymore, in fact, have been selling and bought RE in SV. So I could be one of those guys who push prices up. Well, need to diversify. Don't blame me.

Bigsby says

Does that make you an Android fan boy?

Here's the difference between fanboys and rational people. I can go into detail about what I like and dislike about Windows and what changes should be made to it. I praise Microsoft when they do something right, which happens quite a bit, but I also criticize Microsoft when they do something wrong, which happens even more often.

The same goes for Android although I haven't had time to play with that platform enough.

In contrast, to Apple fanboys, Apple can do no wrong. Ask them about how Apple sucks and they can't give you a reason. This has always been true. Even when shown side by side the disadvantages of an Apple product, they can't accept that it is inferior in any way. Of course, once Apple finally adopts the technology that everyone else has used for years, the fanboys cheer how innovative and cutting edge Apple is.

Dan8267 says

Peter P says

However, Apple runs an extremely effective religion

Exactly. And that's why I do not respect the opinion of their disciples. It's not based on knowledge or understanding.

That's awesome. We finally have a religion that actually works. :)

hanera says

As an investor in AAPL since 1997, happy to let it be.

People have made fortunes off of coal companies and wars. If that is your measure of success, fine, but it's irrelevant to this discussion.

We're not talking about whether or not people could make money off of Apple stock. That's an entirely different issue. I own Apple stock. It's in the S&P 500. But that has nothing to do with the op or with the spun-off conversation about which platform is better.

But hey, if you're talking return on investment, it was Google, not Apple, were you should have placed your money. Apple stock in the past decade has been shit compared to Google.

Dan8267 says

Thank the PC, OS/2, Windows, Unix, and Palm OS for everything you like about iPhones and iPads.

Why? It's of no real concern to the average consumer. If I like my fridge, am I supposed to thank the inventor of ice makers?

hanera says

Thank you for the discourse, have to stop replying you for reason you should know.

My only conjecture is this is your way of getting the last word. If that's important to you fine. I don't follow the dumb philosophy that the person who gets the last word "wins". I find the person with the best reason and evidence to be the most convincing. Then again, I'm a PC user, not a MAC user, so it's not surprising that I value substance over fluff.

Bigsby says

Why? It's of no real concern to the average consumer.

You're missing my point. Whether or not you care about how technology evolves does not change they way in which technology evolves. One important and meaningful measure of the success of a technology is whether or not later technology is built on top of it.

Strategist,

Is hard to explain to others who don't appreciate the beauty of Apple design and it-just-works UX. I have given up doing so, is either you love or hate Apple products. I find those who dislike Apple products tends to prefer tons of features/free apps, easy to tinkle with and lower front-end price of Android phones. IMHO, is a choice, there is no wrong or right.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

That's awesome. We finally have a religion that actually works. :)

Pasted the wrong URL. That image has the important bit cut off: the title "religious fanaticism". I've already corrected it.

By the way, without the meaning of the y-axis, how the hell did you conclude that Apple is a religion "that works"?

Apple is now a religion. Anyone who insults Apple will be executed.
Apple ho Akbar.

Dan8267 says

In contrast, to Apple fanboys, Apple can do no wrong. Ask them about how Apple sucks and they can't give you a reason. This has always been true. Even when shown side by side the disadvantages of an Apple product, they can't accept that it is inferior in any way. Of course, once Apple finally adopts the technology that everyone else has used for years, the fanboys cheer how innovative and cutting edge Apple is.

So a small section of purchasers are childish about the product they buy. I see a lot of the Android fans being equally childish in their criticism of Apple. Who cares? Apple make some good products. So do plenty of other companies. For some reason, certain people seem to like over praising the company while others seem to enjoy over criticising it. Personally, I like both my Macbook Air and my LG G3.

hanera says

Is hard to explain to others who don't appreciate the beauty of Apple design and it-just-works UX.

All the software I've ever written my entire life "just works". I've seen Apple's OS crash and show a bomb icon -- that wouldn't fly today.

As for aesthetics, that's completely subjective and is typically preferred based on what a person is used to and, in the case of Apple users, whether or not it's an Apple product. Take the logo off an Apple product and slap on a Microsoft logo and the Apple fan base will call it ugly and stupid. Take the Microsoft logo off a product and slap an Apple logo on, and the base will call it the greatest invention ever.

Apple fanboys are like Fox News. It doesn't matter what the product or policy is: Apple/Republican good, everyone else bad. Look at how many of Obama's policies are identical to the ones Fox News praised under Bush but attack because now they got black cooties on them. Apple fanboys are no different.

But hey, prove me wrong. Name at least ten seriously bad things about the iPhone.

It's so hard to find a premium PC laptop nowadays. Most of them pretend to be MacBooks. I want my PgUp/PgDn/Home/End/Del!!!

Bigsby says

I see a lot of the Android fans being equally childish in their criticism of Apple.

There's nothing childish about my criticisms of Apple or their fans here. You might not like those criticisms, but that doesn't make them untrue or unfair.

Dan8267 says

But hey, prove me wrong. Name at least ten seriously bad things about the iPhone.

1. Does not make coffee.

Sarcastic answers only serve to prove my point.

Dan8267 says

Sarcastic answers only serve to prove my point.

No, it disproves your point. In the eyes of the average person there is nothing wrong with it.

Dan8267 says

Bigsby says

Why? It's of no real concern to the average consumer.

You're missing my point. Whether or not you care about how technology evolves does not change they way in which technology evolves. One important and meaningful measure of the success of a technology is whether or not later technology is built on top of it.

I'm not missing the point. If someone incorrectly claims credit for something, then fine, you pull them up on it, but that has nothing to do with how the end consumer views the product they purchased, most particularly for the type of things you mentioned.

Strategist says

No, it disproves your point.

Contradiction is not debate. Nor is it convincing.

Bigsby says

I'm not missing the point. If someone incorrectly claims credit for something, then fine, you pull them up on it, but that has nothing to do with how the end consumer views the product they purchased

And if that were relevant to the discussion we were having...

Dan8267 says

Bigsby says

I see a lot of the Android fans being equally childish in their criticism of Apple.

There's nothing childish about my criticisms of Apple or their fans here. You might not like those criticisms, but that doesn't make them untrue or unfair.

You are over generalising and making mileage out of a ridiculous comedy video. Apple has obviously made products that people have wanted. Their growth is testament to the fact that they may not be first with products, but they have very effectively implemented some key products and done enough with those products to keep people repurchasing. So a small group of people hyperventilate over Apple's stuff. Big deal. I find it just as strange that people who like other products get so annoyed by it.

Dan8267 says

Bigsby says

I'm not missing the point. If someone incorrectly claims credit for something, then fine, you pull them up on it, but that has nothing to do with how the end consumer views the product they purchased

And if that were relevant to the discussion we were having...

It's perfectly relevant to what was being discussed. You said thank X, Y and Z every time you use your idevice. Why? Do people do it for other products?

Bigsby says

You are over generalising and making mileage out of a ridiculous comedy video. Apple has obviously made products that people have wanted

I've never said anything that implied Apple never made a product that people didn't want. I think you want to have a conversation that is different, and not relevant, to everything I've said. If so, please start a new thread. However, I reserve the right to not disagree with you, so it may be a damn short thread if you base it on a Straw Man argument.

Bigsby says

So a small group of people hyperventilate over Apple's stuff. Big deal. I find it just as strange that people who like other products get so annoyed by it.

What we people find annoying is the false claims that Apple is the leader of innovation when every single product they ever released was a copy-n-paste of someone else's product and then given a new paint job. That's all I'm saying.

There are technologies that truly advanced the computing industry, and that industry includes portable music players, smart phones, the Internet, etc. When people advance technology, I respect that. When people claim to have advanced technology but are simply creating a new fashion, I don't respect that. When a fan base takes a shit on everyone else while claiming their idol invented things that can be clearly traced back to the very people they just shitted on, I don't respect the people in that fan base. And that's all I've been saying.

If you want to discuss anything else, feel free to open a thread and clearly state your point. I may or may not agree with it, but I'll give you an honest reason why in either case.

Dan8267 says

But hey, prove me wrong. Name at least ten seriously bad things about the iPhone.

I'll mention a few...
1. It's overly large for its 2 screen sizes.
2. It's overpriced especially for the increased memory.
3. It should have more ram.
4. I like micro sd slots.
5. I like being able to swap batteries.
6. People who have used the current os can add some stuff about the software, but it seemed poor for multi tasking in the past...

I wonder if apple has a violent old testament. Did gates and jobs ever reach fisticuffs?

Strategist says

That's awesome. We finally have a religion that actually works. :)

Dan8267 says

There are technologies that truly advanced the computing industry, and that industry includes portable music players, smart phones, the Internet, etc. When people advance technology, I respect that.

Have Apple claimed that as I don't know? They, from my experience of their marketing, seem to claim that their products are the ones that just work the best (or some variation along that line). I'd argue that with the ipod, iphone and ipad that there has been some truth to that, and once you are used to it/invested a lot of money in the software, it becomes more difficult to switch. I had an off contract iphone 3g for a long time, and switched to the G3. If I had been rolling over a 2 year contract, then I'd probably still be using an iphone. I'm sure many just keep buying the newer shiny version of what they are used to without too much consideration of the tech let alone the original inventors.

Bigsby says

1. It's overly large for its 2 screen sizes.

2. It's overpriced especially for the increased memory.

3. It should have more ram.

4. I like micro sd slots.

5. I like being able to swap batteries.

6. People who have used the current os can add some stuff about the software, but it seemed poor for multi tasking...

Typically smart people don't care about these things because:
1 - well... the size is perfect
2 - smart people don't care because they have buying power
3 - smart people have more important things to think about than RAM as long as it works well - which it does
4 - smart people know how to exchange files over the air.
5 - smart people don't care because they buy a new phone every 2 years.
6 - smart people focus on important things and don't lose time playing tricks with their phones

SoftShell says

I wonder if apple has a violent old testament. Did gates and jobs ever reach fisticuffs?

Have you watched Pirates of Silicon Valley? Epic stuff.

Bill Gates has the last laugh because he is still ALIVE.

Heraclitusstudent says

Bigsby says

1. It's overly large for its 2 screen sizes.

2. It's overpriced especially for the increased memory.

3. It should have more ram.

4. I like micro sd slots.

5. I like being able to swap batteries.

6. People who have used the current os can add some stuff about the software, but it seemed poor for multi tasking...

Typically smart people don't care about these things because:

1 - well... the size is perfect

2 - smart people don't care because they have buying power

3 - smart people have more important things to think about than RAM as long as it works well - which it does

4 - smart people know how to exchange files over the air.

5 - smart people don't care because they buy a new phone every 2 years.

6 - smart people focus on important things and don't lose time playing tricks with their phones

Smart people also don't care about battery life because they can simply snatch someone's Android device when their iPhones run out of juice.

This is what my wife does. :-)

Bigsby says

Dan8267 says

But hey, prove me wrong. Name at least ten seriously bad things about the iPhone.

I'll mention a few...

Failure, both in number and seriousness. If that's the best you can do, you're hardly being objective. I've can name more important problems that are common to both Android and iPhones.

Here's an example. Horrendous Apple 'Keylogger' Flaw Lets Hackers See Everything You Do On Your iPhone. Key loggers have been installed by OEMs on both iPhones and Android devices. And since both run Unix as the OS, often it's the same spyware.

Now if having your banking and personal photos compromised isn't a big deal to you then I could understand how you overlooked this. But really, are you seriously looking at your iPhone objectively if your top complaints are the ones above?

Heraclitusstudent says

Bigsby says

1. It's overly large for its 2 screen sizes.


2. It's overpriced especially for the increased memory.


3. It should have more ram.


4. I like micro sd slots.


5. I like being able to swap batteries.


6. People who have used the current os can add some stuff about the software, but it seemed poor for multi tasking...

Heraclitusstudent says

Typically smart people don't care about these things because:

1 - well... the size is perfect

2 - smart people don't care because they have buying power

3 - smart people have more important things to think about than RAM as long as it works well - which it does

4 - smart people know how to exchange files over the air.

5 - smart people don't care because they buy a new phone every 2 years.

6 - smart people focus on important things and don't lose time playing tricks with their phones

1. Looks perfect to me.
2. I would pay even more.
3. I didn't even know my iPhone had RAM. Cool. :)
4. You can do that? No one told me. :(
5. Like me. And sell the old one on E-bay.
6. Like logging on to Patnet. :)

Now I like my iPhone even more. Thanks guys.

Peter P says

Smart people also don't care about battery life because they can simply snatch someone's Android device when their iPhones run out of juice.

This is what my wife does. :-)

Your wife is obviously smart.

Dan8267 says

Failure, both in number and seriousness

Good grief. I listed a few things. I said others with experience could talk about the OS. And who the fuck are you to decide what is a serious issue to someone else? Those are important to me. I didn't say they were the most important. And I numbered them not for importance but clarity before you oh-so predictably go down that line.

bgamall4 says

Strategist, you are an example of a wasted life.

You sound like my wife. Stop nagging. I already took out the garbage.

Strategist says

1. Looks perfect to me.

Indeed, though the 4.7 is only a little smaller than my G3.

Strategist says

2. I would pay even more.

Though I presume you'd be happier to pay less.

Strategist says

3. I didn't even know my iPhone had RAM. Cool. :)

I guess we'll have to see after the next OS update or two, though if you don't buy unlocked phones, it's probably less of an issue.

Strategist says

5. Like me. And sell the old one on E-bay.

That would be just dandy if your locked phone was good for those of us travelling a lot.

Bigsby says

Strategist says

5. Like me. And sell the old one on E-bay.

That would be just dandy if your locked phone was good for those of us travelling a lot.

I use AT&T. They let you unlock at no cost. I thought the newer models are already unlocked.