patrick.net

zzyzzx says

Yes you are.

I disagree (who decides what job needs a college education, anyway?), but like Bigs said--even if you think there are too many college educated people now, shouldn't the decision to go to college be based on academics and not one's family finances?

indigenous says

Economics is the study of the use of scarce resources which have alternative uses

Do you think that's some earth shattering revelation there? Please explain how that definition is relevant to our discussion?

tatupu70 says

shouldn't the decision to go to college be based on academics and not one's family finances?

No. It' certainly should not be at the taxpayer's expense if they are not needed. It's just common sense. you don't use taxpayers money to subsidize something that you already have too many of. Why do you hate common sense???

The score is Tat/Bigby=0 everyone else=a shitload

The college education thang is just more propaganda brought to you by indoctrination/edjumication industry, this like Keynesian economics, the military industrial complex, public transfers, and a million other alphabet soup parasites are a bad case of the kings new clothes.

tatupu70 says

Do you think that's some earth shattering revelation there? Please explain how that definition is relevant to our discussion?

It encompasses a shade more than supply and demand...

What I find hilarious is that no politician is willing to entertain the idea of legally defaulting on loans. That would be the ultimate check in whether money gets loaned out and also the amount of tuition these colleges charge to begin with.

zzyzzx says

No. It' certainly should not be at the taxpayer's expense if they are not needed. It's just common sense. you don't use taxpayers money to subsidize something that you already have too many of. Why do you hate common sense???

It's not common sense to me. If we're going to start to stop subsidizing things that we already have too many of--let's begin with fighter planes, tanks, battleships, etc.

I think society is much better off giving opportunity for everyone to have a college education than it is building more weapons.

indigenous says

It encompasses a shade more than supply and demand

OK great--so explain how it's relevant to our discussion.

indigenous says

The score is Tat/Bigby=0 everyone else=a shitload

Sure, because you've made a convincing argument that your country benefits when a student is blocked from going to college purely on financial grounds. Oh, hang on, no you haven't.

Bigsby says

Sure, because you've made a convincing argument that your country benefits when a student is blocked from going to college purely on financial grounds. Oh, hang on, no you haven't.

What kind of strange rationale. Someone can't buy something because he couldn't afford it-not the end of the world. They can go to college later if they so desire. What else do you takers want to mandate-do we have to pay for your pets too and maintain them in the comfy lifestyle of the pets in rich people's homes?? Really good poor students already get scholarship-the rets can get non college degree jobs.

lostand confused says

What kind of strange rationale. Someone can't buy something because he couldn't afford it-not the end of the world. They can go to college later if they so desire. What else do you takers want to mandate-do we have to pay for your pets too and maintain them in the comfy lifestyle of the pets in rich people's homes?? Really good poor students already get scholarship-the rets can get non college degree jobs.

You've got to be kidding me. We're not talking about someone buying a 40" LCD TV here. Education is an investment. A highly educated workforce is extremely beneficial to society.

You're literally advocating a caste system. Things will certainly cost less when only a small fraction of the population have any money....

tatupu70 says

OK great--so explain how it's relevant to our discussion.

No gawd dammit, this is your MO, and it is a huge time waster.

Bigsby says

Sure, because you've made a convincing argument that your country benefits when a student is blocked from going to college purely on financial grounds. Oh, hang on, no you haven't.

The argument is simply what is valuable and what is not. It gets skewed by government meddling. IOW a college education would not be as valuable if the market did not demand it.

indigenous says

No gawd dammit, this is your MO, and it is a huge time waster.

My MO? Asking you to make an argument or shut the hell up? I'm sorry, but you are an idiot. Please leave so the adults can have a discussion.

lostand confused says

What kind of strange rationale. Someone can't buy something because he couldn't afford it-not the end of the world. They can go to college later if they so desire. What else do you takers want to mandate-do we have to pay for your pets too and maintain them in the comfy lifestyle of the pets in rich people's homes?? Really good poor students already get scholarship-the rets can get non college degree jobs.

There's nothing strange about it. It's the US that's been the exception in the developed world. What has paying for pets got to do with allowing well-qualified students from poor backgrounds access to higher education that they would otherwise have to forfeit? There's fuck all benefit from me subsidizing your pets. There's plenty for society to gain from allowing these kids to get further education. The mere fact you start blathering on about pets as an equivalence says it all.

indigenous says

It gets skewed by government meddling. IOW a college education would not be as valuable if the market did not demand it.

lol--you can't even make this argument coherently. The MARKET demands it. It has nothing to do with government. Government is just helping folks achieve what the market demands.

tatupu70 says

My MO? Asking you to make an argument or shut the hell up?

Go fuck yourself, you always want me to splain you stuff, to which you reply that's not it.

indigenous says

The argument is simply what is valuable and what is not. It gets skewed by government meddling. IOW a college education would not be as valuable if the market did not demand it.

Education is valuable. Allowing well-qualified kids access to higher education who would otherwise miss out is valuable.

mmmarvel says

So I seriously believe she is making more than $15 an hour (oh, and she works 13 hours a day, 3 days a week, has 4 days to play with 2 of those 4 days being Friday and Saturday).

So yeah, there are a TON of jobs out there that don't require a college degree.

How does on "live" in washington dc on $15 and hour? That's netting less than 1600 a month. Good luck.

So yeah there are a TON of jobs out there that don't REQUIRE a college degree, but so many people with a degree apply the companies just throw out applications that don't have one. Go look at what HR is doing with applications some time

tatupu70 says

lol--you can't even make this argument coherently. The MARKET demands it. It has nothing to do with government. Government is just helping folks achieve what the market demands.

Congratulations you regurgitate the slogan perfectly...

indigenous says

Go fuck yourself, you always want me to splain you stuff, to which you reply that's not it.

Yes, god forbid you actually make an argument.

Bigsby says

There's plenty for society to gain from allowing these kids to get further education.

No there is not. They can always go to community college and/or choose to go to college at a later stage. For the truly brilliant among the poor-there is the scholarship and grants route.Bigsby says

It's the US that's been the exception in the developed world

Does not mean we have to follow them -the European settlers came to escape their native countries-not to recreate the same .
Bigsby says

The mere fact you start blathering on about pets as an equivalence says it all

Your kind never stops taking. it is always something more you want to take away from the hard working folks and you always feel so high and mighty.

Call it Crazy says

Another post that shows how TOTALLY clueless you are. EVERY kid that wants to go to college sends out multiple applications in hopes that one college will accept him... Common sense (which you have NONE) would tell you that there a ton more applications versus acceptances

No kidding. It's pretty easy to adjust for that. Doesn't hurt my argument at all.

Bigsby says

Education is valuable. Allowing well-qualified kids access to higher education who would otherwise miss out is valuable.

Yup the market for engineers is tremendous and apparently for code writers.

Not for Greek History or similiar.

tatupu70 says

Yes, god forbid you actually make an argument.

Projecting...

lostand confused says

Your kind never stops taking. it is always something more you want to take away from the hard working folks and you always feel so high and mighty

There's the rub. I want to take from the non-hard working folks. The ones that are making PASSIVE income. Income they make by sitting on their ass all day.

YOUR kind are the ones who keep changing the tax code to take more and more from the hard working folks.

indigenous says

Yup the market for engineers is tremendous and apparently for code writers.

Not for Greek History or similiar.

So what? The choice of the course is up to the student. Just because you don't see value in a particular course doesn't mean that it has none. And your point is irrelevant anyway because you aren't arguing for the funding to be directed. You're arguing for it not to be introduced at all.

lostand confused says

Does not mean we have to follow them -the European settlers came to escape their native countries-not to recreate the same .

LOL, you are really funny. european settlers came to escape famine and poverty, not free college tuition. You didn't get the memo?

tatupu70 says

It's not common sense to me. If we're going to start to stop subsidizing things that we already have too many of--let's begin with fighter planes, tanks, battleships, etc.

I think society is much better off giving opportunity for everyone to have a college education than it is building more weapons.

I'm in favor of less government subsidies across the board, starting with Obamaphones, babies, etc.

indigenous says

Yup the market for engineers is tremendous and apparently for code writers.

For Code writers but not for people who occupied a classroom seat for a couple years for a sheet of paper.
If everyone that went to school to code, could write decent code. I would have to find a new gig, as I would not be able to compete with all of the people who went to school for this.

zzyzzx says

I'm in favor of less government subsidies across the board, starting with Obamaphones, babies, etc.

Yes, if there's one thing that's really putting the budget in the red, it's the Obamaphones.

lostand confused says

Your kind never stops taking. it is always something more you want to take away from the hard working folks and you always feel so high and mighty.

My kind? What's my kind? I've worked my entire adult life after university if that's what you mean.

bob2356 says

LOL, you are really funny. european settlers came to escape famine and poverty, not free college tuition. You didn't get the memo

His point is that rest of the developed world has it and so we should. Why? I mean illegals already go to school for free in CA and become lawyers and some wave Mexican flags at graduation. How many more need to go to college at taxpayer's dime?? The truly deserving-fine through scholarships and grants-but not the others. Maybe what we need to change is the idea that everybody has to go to college. That is not true-who gets to be the maid, the police officer, security, truck driver, toll collector, janitor??

Bigsby says

My kind? What's my kind? I've worked my entire adult life after university if that's what you mean

The kind that always asks for freebies and wants an absolute fair world-life ain't fair. Accept it, accept reality and move on-instead of always taking, taking, taking and whining.

lostand confused says

His point is that rest of the developed world ahs it and so we should. Why? I mean illegals already go to school for free in CA and become lawyers and some wave Mexican flags at graduation. How many more need to go to college at taxpayer's dime?? The truly deserving-fine through scholarships and grants-but not the others. Maybe what we need to change is the idea that everybody has to go to college. That is not true-who gets to be the maid, the police officer, security, truck driver, toll collector, janitor??

You need to change the free market then. How do you tell an employer that he can't hire a college educated worker for his entry level job? What do you say when he says he wants someone he can promote to other positions in the future?

lostand confused says

The kind that always asks for freebies and wants an absolute fair world-life ain't fair. Accept it, accept reality and move on-instead of always taking, taking, taking and whining.

You mean all the Republicans in the red states?

tatupu70 says

You need to change the free market then

tatupu70 says

How do you tell an employer that he can't hire a college educated worker for his entry level job? What do you say when he says he wants someone he can promote to other positions in the future?

You have an odd definition for free market. You don't tell the employer anything-they decide how they want to staff, based on the prevailing market conditions. if he wants to hire someone without a college degree for a CEO positon-that is their choice.

lostand confused says

His point is that rest of the developed world ahs it and so we should. Why?

Perhaps because there are obvious benefits in having a more educated populace rather than having a society in which access to education is predicated not on your ability but your financial circumstances.

Bigsby says

Perhaps because there are obvious benefits in having a more educated populace rather than having a society in which access to education is predicated not on your ability but your financial circumstances

No. There are only so many college jobs. There are what 11 million illegals here-those jobs can be done by Americans and then this welfare culture may go down.

lostand confused says

You have an odd definition for free market. You don't tell the employer anything-they decide how they want to staff, based on the prevailing market conditions. if he wants to hire someone without a college degree for a CEO positon-that is their choice.

lol--OK so what do you do when all the employers decide they require a college education?

lostand confused says

The kind that always asks for freebies and wants an absolute fair world-life ain't fair. Accept it, accept reality and move on-instead of always taking, taking, taking and whining.

Oh, you mean 'freebies' like better access to higher education for a relatively small number of students. That, by the way, doesn't make the world fair (and I don't expect it to be) but it might make your education system slightly fairer. Why is that so bad?