patrick.net

VILNIUS, Lithuania -- Lithuania says it has cut itself off entirely of gas imports from Russia, apparently becoming the first of the European Union's 27 nations using Russian gas to break its energy dependence upon Moscow.

“Seeking full energy independence from Russian gas, in response to Russia’s energy blackmail in Europe and the war in Ukraine, Lithuania has completely abandoned Russian gas,” Lithuania’s energy ministry said in a statement late Saturday, adding that the measure took effect in the beginning of April.

Eric Holder says

“Seeking full energy independence from Russian gas, in response to Russia’s energy blackmail in Europe and the war in Ukraine, Lithuania has completely abandoned Russian gas,” Lithuania’s energy ministry said in a statement late Saturday, adding that the measure took effect in the beginning of April.

It's a completely fungible commodity. Reminds me of the sanctions that US supposedly had against Iraq - all that happened is people in powerful places just lied about the sources, and walked around the sanctions and pocketing a few large fortunes in the process.

not sure what this means, will this do anything for our gas prices? They haven't come down yet.

FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut says

not sure what this means, will this do anything for our gas prices? They haven't come down yet.

No connection whatsoever.

RWSGFY says

FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut says

not sure what this means, will this do anything for our gas prices? They haven't come down yet.

No connection whatsoever.

Yes, we totally live in a free market now that supply and demand is completely disconnected from price..

richwicks says

fuck over people who save.

I have a feeling that before the hyper-inflation, gold will break out of its current doldrums and start to equilibrate against the true CPI in terms of the USD.

So far, having studied gold charts, I don't see that situation yet.

When it happens, better become a gold bug before it's too late. Right now, my exposure to gold is a sliver of my portfolio, since I bought some circa $400/oz and the other section, when it was around $1100/oz.

DooDahMan says

Kyiv Halts Russian Gas Shipments Through Key Hub

Russian gas flows to Europe via Ukraine fell by a quarter on May 11 after Kyiv announced that it would stop Russian shipments through its key Novopskov hub in the east, blaming interference by Russian forces in the region.

It is the first time exports have been disrupted since Moscow launched its unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. Despite the war, Ukraine has remained a major transit route for Russian gas to Europe.

Russia's state-controlled energy giant Gazprom, which has a monopoly on Moscow's gas exports by pipeline, said it was still shipping gas to Europe via Ukraine, but volumes were seen at 72 million cubic meters (mcm) on May 11, down from 95.8 mcm the previous day.

Wow, 3rd month into the war and it turns out that the gas has been flowing uniterrupted up until now (until very smart RuZZians decided to occupy the territory it's going through and fuck with the equipment, that is). Puts a giant stake into the heart of "West and Ukraine have always wanted to stop RuZZian gas from flowing through there" low-IQ conspiracy theory.

So another inch closer to the drain for Gazprom and no other than Putin did it to them.

The fuckers had such a nice gig going....

DooDahMan says

since Moscow launched its unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

Adding biased phrases like "unprovoked" to the article show that the author is biased and the article is thus unreliable.

HeadSet says

DooDahMan says

since Moscow launched its unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

Adding biased phrases like "unprovoked" to the article show that the author is biased and the article is thus unreliable.

These are not biased words but factual description. Because we're 3rd month into the invasion and still no proof of any existential threat to Russia from Ukraine have been provided or emerged. They had no credible casus belli, pure and simple.

RWSGFY says

HeadSet says

DooDahMan says

since Moscow launched its unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

Adding biased phrases like "unprovoked" to the article show that the author is biased and the article is thus unreliable.

These are not biased words but factual description

That's not true. Russia has been trying to negotiate with Ukraine for 8 solid years. They attempted to bring this up multiple times at the UN. They have been entirely consistent and clear for the entire time.

Ukraine can't join NATO (not that France or Germany would allow it, but neither France nor Germany stated that, neither did Ukraine)
Stop bombing Eastern Ukraine and follow the Minsk Accords.

Ukraine has ignored this the entire time, they never negotiated in good faith. So quit lying.

richwicks says

That's not true. Russia has been trying to negotiate with Ukraine for 8 solid years.

There's one thing on patnet that doesn't change: puturds running their little propaganda campaign.

How exactly did they negotiate? By installing their puppet Yanukovitch? By taking over Crimea? By sending their goons to Donetsk/Lugansk? Or by leading hybrid war for 8 years?
Will you actually be stupid enough to claim that non of this happened?

If I didn't know your MO I'd feel sorry for someone so misinformed. But since I know your MO, the feeling is that of disgust.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

That's not true. Russia has been trying to negotiate with Ukraine for 8 solid years.

There's one thing on patnet that doesn't change: puturds running their little propaganda campaign.

Just demonstrate I'm incorrect. You're again wasting your time insulting me.

mostly reader says

How exactly did they negotiate? By installing their puppet Yanukovitch?

There was no conflict when their puppet Yanukovitch was in power. There was a problem when the CIA took over the nation by staging a fake revolution. That's when Western Ukraine began bombing Eastern Ukraine and began claiming they were going to join NATO. NATO is a defunct organization, it should have been dissolved when the Warsaw Pact was.

mostly reader says

By taking over Crimea?

Well, they weren't going to give up their naval base there. They are majority Russian there. The US would be more likely to give up Guantanamo.

mostly reader says

By sending their goons to Donetsk/Lugansk? Or by leading hybrid war for 8 years?

Well you got REAL war now.

mostly reader says

Will you actually be stupid enough to claim that non of this happened?

I'm pointing out none of this would have happened if the US didn't overthrow Ukraine in 2014.

mostly reader says

If I didn't know your MO I'd feel sorry for someone so misinformed. But since I know your MO, the feeling is that of disgust.

I find it difficult you believe what you claim to believe. You never source information, EVER. I do.

And now, all the evidence is being wiped by "Big Tech", ala 1984. Seems legit..

I don't believe my government because they are proven and habitual liars. Why do you believe anything the US government says?

mostly reader says

How exactly did they negotiate? By installing their puppet Yanukovitch? By taking over Crimea? By sending their goons to Donetsk/Lugansk? Or by leading hybrid war for 8 years?

So we have never negotiated with countries and parties involved in military actions? Following that logic we should be at war with dozens of countries, including some large powers. Nato deliberately did not negotiate seriously ever on this, instead they poked the bear. If you're fine with plenty of Ukrainians and Russians dying over a conflict involving small areas of Ukraine and neutrality that's between you and your conscience, but insults don't help that cause. Neither does invoking godwins law, Hitler quickly declared war on the entire world within a few years, whereas this has been a localized conflict over small regions for decades. They should come to the table, negotiate a deal and make it clear that this is about the separatist regions only and any future aggression deviating from the deal and expanding will be met with force.

mell says

They should come to the table, negotiate a deal and make it clear that this is about the separatist regions only and any future aggression deviating from the deal and expanding will be met with force.

This isn't about saving lives, it's about weakening Russia, and if the conflict expands, weakening Europe - the only downside is that it's POTENTIAL the end of modern civilization if it goes to nuclear war.

It's not fucking traitors to the nation that run this country, they are traitors to all of humanity, if not all life.

richwicks says

This isn't about saving lives,

Clearly it isn't. Let Europe deal with it, engage in diplomacy only and only engage in military actions and aid if a Nato member is attacked. The US has been broke for a while (like plenty of other countries), hence the fiery printing and massive inflation and shortages.

richwicks says

Just demonstrate I'm incorrect. You're again wasting your time insulting me.

I've done it, and repeatedly. Your typical pattern is 1) to pretend that it didn't happen, 2) when referred back demand quotes 3) when receive quote ignore or divert to another topic.

richwicks says

There was no conflict when their puppet Yanukovitch was in power.

I think you are saying that Russian puppets are good because Russia is happy and there's no conflict with Russia. In other words, Russia should be able to install it's puppets, let you live in return, and it's a fair compromise. If anyone ever needs proof that you are Putler's propaganda troll, this is a good reference point.

But even there you are DEAD WRONG. Medal for "Return of Crimea", Russian campaign medal of the Ministry of Defense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal%22For_the_Return_of_Crimea%22 Yanukovich was still in the office when it was issued. Do you know how much time is needed to discuss, approve, and then to issue a government award? Let's just say - it doesn't happen overnight. You are obviously passionate about the topic, and then it turns out that you don't know shit about it.

richwicks says

Well you got REAL war now.

And it's a continuation of the hybrid war they started in 2014. BOTH were started by Russia. "It was so avoidable, we really should've been nicer to that crocodile." Pathetic.

richwicks says

I'm pointing out none of this would have happened if the US didn't overthrow Ukraine in 2014.

I already pointed out that your perpetual repetition of a false doesn't make it true. I explained why. You couldn't argue against the explanation, so you just dismissed it and engaged "whack-a-mole" mode.

richwicks says

I don't believe my government because they are proven and habitual liars. Why do you believe anything the US government says?

I repeatedly pointed out that I don't get my opinions from US government. You are full of shit. Again.

Yet you do spread Rushist propaganda. There are no bigger, more psychopathic liars on this planet. You absolutely, positively, have no right to criticize anyone's source of data.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Just demonstrate I'm incorrect. You're again wasting your time insulting me.

I've done it, and repeatedly.

Quote me. We're going back to this.

You claim you've done shit, that you haven't demonstrated. As soon as I see you do this, I just ignore everything else you write. If your first statement to me is a lie, there's nothing else coming from you worth considering.

Quote me - provide a link.

How have you demonstrated I'm incorrect? What statement did I make, that you demonstrated was incorrect, quote me, and quote yourself.

Or don't bother me. Your "proof" is you said I was wrong and insinuated I was having anal sex with Putin. This is your primary form of argument and discussion.

I've said it before, mostly reader is the most comically ironic username on PatNet,

richwicks says

Quote me - provide a link.

I dedicated a post to your use of grey propaganda, with a specific example. Are you saying that you don't remember? Yes or no?

Here, I want to make it blatantly obvious that your demands for a quote is a stalling technique.

richwicks says

Your "proof" is you said I was wrong and insinuated I was having anal sex with Putin.

I did no such thing, let's be clear about who said what. My statement was that your tongue is stuck in a part of Putin's body. There was nothing about anal sex. Furthermore, I didn't use it as a proof. It was an inference from your observed endearment of Putler.

mell says

richwicks says

This isn't about saving lives,

Clearly it isn't. Let Europe deal with it

The United States wants war - they aren't going to engage in diplomacy. They want to weaken Russia, and if it weakens Europe, that's fine too.

mell says

engage in diplomacy only and only engage in military actions and aid if a Nato member is attacked.

NATO is a stupid gift. Countries that have it get free money, they don't pay for it. If we had people that gave a shit about the United States in power, they would dump their treaties with Europe and join Russia to squeeze Europe.

I can think like a sociopath. That would be what is best for this nation. Prop up Russia, victimize Europe. We control the oil for the most part from the Middle East, we can make a deal with Russia to make them the SOLE SUPPLIER of energy for Europe.

If the sociopaths that run this nation cared about this nation - and they don't.

mell says

The US has been broke for a while (like plenty of other countries), hence the fiery printing and massive inflation and shortages.

Well, if I was a sociopath in control, I would have been steadily collecting gold for the last 20 years and working with Russia behind the scenes to upend the US dollar, and replace it with a new currency.

We'll see. We'll see if traitors are running this country or not in a few years. I think traitors run this nation though.

It's easy to think like a sociopath, just imagine the entire situation like a video game. Do you care when you kill another player or when you are killed?

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Quote me - provide a link.

I dedicated a post to your use of grey propaganda,

No quote. No link.

Provide a quote and links. Show your dedicated post, quote it, provide links. I expect you to point to any random post, and dishonestly claim it proves something it doesn't. This is why I'm saying "quote it", if you do - I expect you to lie about the quotes.

I'm not going to expend any effort with you. You can insult me all you like, but I have judged you to be dishonest to my own satisfaction, and as a result, as soon as I detect a lie I ignore anything beyond that. You can admit "error" and we can move on, or you can demonstrate I'm in error, and then we'll move on.

See what I've quoted from you? That's as much as I've read of yours. I don't think you are worth even considering. I judge it pointless to spend even a minute reading what you write. To me, you're either a brainwashed fanatic or a legitimate propagandist. Not the first one I've encountered. People just can't conceive paid liars exist, I know they do.

I respond to you to demonstrate your dishonesty, not because I learn anything from you at this point. If you're not a propagandist, it's interesting you fall into the same playbook of Hasbera. You can insult me if you like but again, it doesn't matter.

richwicks says

No quote, no link.

Are you saying that you don't remember? Yes or no?

richwicks says

...not because I learn anything from you at this point.

Since you seem impaired in the learning department, this is irrelevant. Although you may hold it in your brain that Crimea annexation was planned with Yanukovitch in the office. Or not. I'm not optimistic.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

No quote, no link.

Are you saying that you don't remember? Yes or no?

I'm saying you are being dishonest.

Quote me, provide a link, refresh my memory.

I get tired of this. You lie, and then you act astounded you've been caught in a lie. You do this over and over and over again.

Hey @Patrick - reveal this comment: https://patrick.net/post/1344825?start=27#comment-1837824 and this post: https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1837824

"mostly reader" can say whatever he likes about me. I don't mind. I recall that post about me sticking my tongue up Putin's asshole, as if that's an argument. High scho... Elementary school was a fucking long time ago. I don't know why you feel the need to insult me. You know it doesn't result in a similar response. Ad hominem is just admission you have no data to back up "your" position.

richwicks says

Patrick - reveal this comment: https://patrick.net/post/1344825?start=27#comment-1837824

OK, it's approved now and should be visible.

@richwicks ^^

Patrick says

@richwicks ^^

That's not the right post,but I really don't care. This has been an excruciating, pointless argument, devoid of information from somebody I don't trust to be honest or sincere.

I shouldn't have bothered you. I don't think anybody here is that influenced by what I consider false information. Proving 1+1=2 is pointless. I think most people know.

You never have to protect me, Patrick, and it kind of shows favoritism so in this stupid pointless dumb fucking arguments, if you're going to ban one, ban both of us. I get frustrated, but I try to steer clear of mindless insults, although I will admittedly engage in them when I consider the person I'm responding to is "dishonest", "a liar", etc. I don't know if that's true - but the alternative thinking is "this person is stupid" and I find that extremely rare. I'll avoid insults and categories as much as possible, it's also pointless to do.

richwicks says

Quote me, provide a link, refresh my memory.

Here you go, dear senile: https://patrick.net/post/1344073?start=9#comment-1826473

There, I demonstrated how US injected itself into the situation in Ukraine and how dishonest agents (I'm looking at you, richwicks) make it seem that US created the situation in Ukraine. You've been rubbed into this multiple times, dear senile. You even tried to debunk it, but didn't really say anything other than repeat what already have been said. So if you try again, here's the only explanation that I'd be interested in: now that we know that Nuland's line was compromised all along, how come there are no recordings of our office actually planning the uprising? (I don't really expect an explanation from you. I expect either crickets or rewashing your old talking points)

It was super cute of you to ask to re-open some posts but not the others. There was something else that I posted about Bucha. I'll copy/paste:
Start of copy/paste:
---
Oh fuck. I don't remember another time in which everyone who matters, on both sides of the isle, conformist or non-conformist, pro-war or pro-peace, would be so unanimous. That includes Donald Trump.

Al Jazeera: "Bucha killings: ‘The world cannot be tricked anymore’"
FOX News: "Atrocities in Bucha, Ukraine, appear 'premeditated,' 'deliberate': senior US defense official"
CNN: "The horrors of Putin's invasion of Ukraine are increasingly coming to light" and many more
The Guardian: "Satellite images of corpses in Bucha contradict Russian claims"
Times of Israel: "Refuting Moscow’s claim, satellite images show bodies were in Bucha for weeks"
BBC: "Satellite image of bodies site contradicts Russian claims"
The Times (UK): "Satellite images show bodies in Bucha before Russian retreat"
The Telegraph (UK): " Satellite images of Bucha dead could provide ‘irrefutable’ proof of Russian war crimes "
Reuters: "Satellite images show civilian deaths in Ukraine town while it was in Russian hands"

Is that all? No, it isn't. Donald Trump also described Moscow's activities in Kyiv as "genocide." That was before Bucha even.

"Our governments"? The ONLY major players that push the line which you are pushing are... drum roll... Russia and China! That's about it!

To truly believe in it, you'd have to believe that:

1) Germany falsified satellite images, and in a way which wasn't exposed
2) Every major outlet outside of Russia and China - US, UK, Canada, Israel, Germany, Netherlands - are all in on it.
3) All major characters, including Trump, are all in on it as well
4) The false flag operation of this scale can be implemented in a few hours and without major leaks
5) (drum roll) Russia and China are telling the truth!
---
End of copy/paste

Further, there was another reference to geo-location of your tongue relative to Putin's body part. To be clear: I meant every single word of it. Someone who attempts to shift the blame about what happened there crossed the line between humans and subhumans. Just so you know where you stand.

RWSGFY says

no proof of any existential threat to Russia from Ukraine have been provided

I do not like Putin, as he is a murdering thug. But from the Russian point of view, with Ukraine moving alliance from Russia to western Europe, with the Ukrainian constitution removing the provision that would keep it out of NATO, with the US Vice President publicly encouraging Ukraine to join NATO, with the steady incorporation of former Warsaw Pact countries and even ex-Soviet states into NATO, one can reasonably assume Ukraine would be next to join. Putin likely saw the need to annex Crimea lest he see a NATO Black Sea Naval Base at Sevastopol. Today, it appears that Putin wants all Ukrainian Black Sea Coast, as to prevent a NATO navy base at Odessa. The idea that the invasion was "unprovoked" is a matter of opinion.

HeadSet says

I do not like Putin, as he is a murdering thug.

He is indeed.

HeadSet says

The idea that the invasion was "unprovoked" is a matter of opinion.

It is a matter of opinion indeed. All this "Support Ukraine" business - it's the world deciding whether the opinion of a murdering thug should count for anything going forward.

mostly reader says

HeadSet says

I do not like Putin, as he is a murdering thug.

He is indeed.

HeadSet says

The idea that the invasion was "unprovoked" is a matter of opinion.

It is a matter of opinion indeed. All this "Support Ukraine" business - it's the world deciding whether the opinion of a murdering thug should count for anything going forward.

HeadSet says

I do not like Putin, as he is a murdering thug. But from the Russian point of view, with Ukraine

Ah yes like the murdering thugs who killed 500k-1MM Iraqis, many children with war and sanction induced famine over completely fabricated wmds? Putler has a long way to go. Have talks already. Trump understood this and didn't start a single war, you can always negotiate with strength, those are not mutually exclusive.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Quote me, provide a link, refresh my memory.

Here you go, dear senile: https://patrick.net/post/1344073?start=9#comment-1826473

What I asked, again was:

richwicks says

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Just demonstrate I'm incorrect. You're again wasting your time insulting me.

I've done it, and repeatedly.

Quote me. We're going back to this.

Cutting up responses to change the meaning is purposeless.

Quote me - when you do, provide a link to my quote so the entire context can bee seen. I predicted your reaction, previously I said:

richwicks says

Show your dedicated post, quote it, provide links. I expect you to point to any random post, and dishonestly claim it proves something it doesn't. This is why I'm saying "quote it", if you do - I expect you to lie about the quotes.

The bold is added. This is what you just did.

There is no point of me wasting my time with you if you are willing to lie to me, and you have demonstrated repeatedly your willingness to deceive, to lie, to misdirect.

To the best of my efforts I am not consciously dishonest. I can be fooled, tricked, I can be maneuvered into repeating what I incorrectly believe to be true information. I recognize I can be tricked, you don't appear to have this minor ability. You insist that whatever you believe must be true, but if I poke just a little, just a scratch, you realize you don't know how you've come to "your" beliefs, but you are very angry at ME for pointing this out. I'm not the one programming you but you blame me for pointing it out.

I can can be tricked as well. Here's something I used to believe:


original link

That's what Joseph Goebbels called "The Big Lie". It's a lie that is so large, that you cannot believe that the person telling it would degrade and prostitute themselves to such a degree as to tell such a lie. Such a lie would lead to a war, killing at minimum thousands, perhaps 100's of thousands. Who would possibly be such a fucking horrible human being as to do that?

Well, the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador would.

There's no discipline in being dishonest. You might despise me, but I'm trying to help you. I'm taking it on faith you want to actually be correct. I'm showing you, repeatedly, how you're deceived. I know it's not pleasant. I reeled for years when I realized how deceived I had been by "mainstream news" - but that was 20 years ago. What I'm rather shocked by is that despite how fucking stupid I am, almost everybody around me is even stupider. They don't even care about being lied to or being deceived, but they react terribly when they are shown they've been tricked.

Propaganda, it's fascinating. And it's also goddamned evil. Makes good men support evil things.

You are cheering on a war in Ukraine that, if Russia so chooses, can be ended with a nuclear strike after the US overthrew that nation an installed cutout puppets as leaders. I just want the goddamned thing to end and I know how it will end. Russia is still a nuclear super power, Ukraine has no chance. The absolute demand is there, and it will be met - just a question of how many people will purposely die before its met.

richwicks says

Show your dedicated post, quote it, provide links.

I did just that - provided a link to my dedicated post. That's EXACTLY what you asked me to do. This is YOUR quote from YOUR post asking me to do that. Now you act butthurt because supposedly it's not what you demanded.

Sheesh, you can't even put together a coherent thought. No wonder your mental process is so defective.

Are you denying that you tried to pin Bucha on Ukrainians and requesting quote for that?

Be specific, dear senile.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Show your dedicated post, quote it, provide links.

I did just that - provided a link to my dedicated post. That's EXACTLY what you asked me to do. This is YOUR quote from YOUR post asking me to do that. Now you act butthurt because supposedly it's not what you demanded.

Sheesh, you can't even put together a coherent thought.

Oh please, this is just another ad-hominem attack.

You make false claims constantly.

mostly reader says

Are you denying that you tried to pin Bucha on Ukrainians and requesting quote for that?

What I HEAR, and I may be misinformed, is that the Ukrainians did it - specifically the Nazi factions of the Ukrainian military which are also fiercely anti-Russian and they targeted Russian sympathizers - that THOSE were the victims. Further evidence to this as being possibly true is that the mayor of Bucha made no mention of the massacre immediately after the Russian military force left it, that Zelenskyy is forcing people to fight and won't allow them to leave, and the cherry on top is our "news" media claims it happened.

Our media ONLY lies. Ghost of Kiev/Kyiv, the massacre on Snake Island? Zelenskyy fighting in the trenches? Our news media lies blatantly. They have no credibility, and this is their claim, and because they're such fucking liars, I have to assume they are lying again. They are war whores. It's a sad state but when I assume our "news" media is lying I'm more than 90% correct at this point.

mostly reader says

Be specific, dear senile.

Again for the 10th time, insulting me doesn't change my mind. It's pointless. I can't be offended by a person I don't respect, and honestly, I feel contempt for you. I think you're not just uninformed, I think you're actively dishonest. I think you're an active liar, who knows they are lying.

What purpose does this war have for Russia? If we are to trust them (and perhaps we should not), it's to prevent Ukraine from housing NATO weaponry and to end the bombing in Eastern Ukraine. Are these unreasonable demands?

If not, Ukraine can agree to them and if the war continues regardless THEN we can discuss the morality of this stupid, pointless, fruitless war.

Those are Russia's stated demands and the cause of this war, remove them, and we'll see if Russia is lying about their motivation for war.

I don't know if Russia is a bunch of scurrilous lying shit, but I know the US lies about ALL of their wars. Find that weapons of mass destruction program yet? If that was a mistake, a valid mistake, it would be a huge error of incompetence and there would have been a fallout of people who made that "mistake" - but that never happened, instead their cunt wives helped overthrow Ukraine.

I'm tired of this empire of lies, and I will actively work against it, but legally of course.

If my government wants me to trust them, they can stop lying to me, but they won't - why is that? My only conclusion is that they have to lie to get support, and either you're part of that or a victim to it.

richwicks says

British Petroleum poisoned the entire Gulf of Mexico.

This is true to an extent. It was overblown to a large amount though. Nature was fucked with, but it wasn't as bad as pictured by the media as someone that frequents the Gulf and Panhandle. It was a slow news cycle and they needed clicks. Yes, it f'd some things up, but it wasn't as bad as it was made out to be. Not a BP stock holder either.

Oil, gasses and natural chemicals have leaked onto land and water naturally forever. I also think Gazprom will be fine. Need to keep the lights and heat on in that part of the world. The US for sure isn't producing it even though we could.

richwicks says

What I HEAR, and I may be misinformed, is that the Ukrainians did it.

I'll have to repeat myself.

Start of copy/paste:
---
Oh fuck. I don't remember another time in which everyone who matters, on both sides of the isle, conformist or non-conformist, pro-war or pro-peace, would be so unanimous. That includes Donald Trump.

Al Jazeera: "Bucha killings: ‘The world cannot be tricked anymore’"
FOX News: "Atrocities in Bucha, Ukraine, appear 'premeditated,' 'deliberate': senior US defense official"
CNN: "The horrors of Putin's invasion of Ukraine are increasingly coming to light" and many more
The Guardian: "Satellite images of corpses in Bucha contradict Russian claims"
Times of Israel: "Refuting Moscow’s claim, satellite images show bodies were in Bucha for weeks"
BBC: "Satellite image of bodies site contradicts Russian claims"
The Times (UK): "Satellite images show bodies in Bucha before Russian retreat"
The Telegraph (UK): " Satellite images of Bucha dead could provide ‘irrefutable’ proof of Russian war crimes "
Reuters: "Satellite images show civilian deaths in Ukraine town while it was in Russian hands"

Is that all? No, it isn't. Donald Trump also described Moscow's activities in Kyiv as "genocide." That was before Bucha even.

"Our governments"? The ONLY major players that push the line which you are pushing are... drum roll... Russia and China! That's about it!

To truly believe in it, you'd have to believe that:

1) Germany falsified satellite images, and in a way which wasn't exposed
2) Every major outlet outside of Russia and China - US, UK, Canada, Israel, Germany, Netherlands - are all in on it.
3) All major characters, including Trump, are all in on it as well
4) The false flag operation of this scale can be implemented in a few hours and without major leaks
5) (drum roll) Russia and China are telling the truth!
---
End of copy/paste

I of course do not for a moment think that you believe that. I think that you are a propaganda troll, as dishonest as they get. You crossed the line between humans and subhumans on the way down long ago.

I'm also waiting for the likes of you to produce "air traffic controller Carlos" who saw it all.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Show your dedicated post, quote it, provide links.

I did just that - provided a link to my dedicated post

Well, show the quote.

See I can do it:

richwicks says

mostly reader says

richwicks says

No, exact quote, and link to it.

I feel that I'm talking to a retard

That's interesting. Quick scan had no links again.

Provide quotes of mine with links.

See? That's a quote, and a reference back to the original post.

You can insult me all you like. I don't care. To me, this just demonstrates your inability to explain, because I believe you're an active liar.

I don't particularly want to engage with this, you talk about nothing, you give no information, you don't provide data which I can assimilate or evaluate - you're just incensed and outraged I don't agree with your, supposed, opinion, which I think is stupid because you don't demonstrate how it's supported.

I have had to beg you for over a month for what forms your opinions. I can show you mine easily:


original link


There's one. Is is correct? I don't know, but you never argue with it. You just call me a stoopid poopy head, as if that's going to make me think "maybe I AM a stupid poopy head? Maybe I should agree with you..."

I'm not a kid anymore and I'm not subject to peer pressure, and I understand how propaganda works. I could be made to agree with you, but I would have to be in a torture prison to do it, and in that environment, I'd agree that black is white, and up is down. Nobody can withstand torture.

However, you're not torturing me.

richwicks says

Well, show the quote.

I gave you the link, go and read. I'm not chewing your dog food. It's quite clear that your demands for quotes are a stalling technique.

richwicks says

you talk about nothing

This is not true. I point out holes in your disinformation campaign and I accurately classify your status in this world.

richwicks says

I have had to beg you for over a month for what forms your opinions.

Did anything change once you had it? Nope. That's why. I understand fully well who you are.

Hey, meant to ask you and forgot. How did you know which posts of mine marked as "personal" to ask Patrick to restore? There were like 10 of them, I understand that regular contributors can't see them. You asked specifically for what, 2? And your wish was very promptly granted. Just curious.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Well, show the quote.

I gave you the link,

Well, if you did, you could quote it and demonstrate you're not lying.

But you are lying. Again.

Your post:
richwicks says

Provide a quote and links. Show your dedicated post, quote it, provide links.

My response:
mostly reader says

Here you go, dear senile: https://patrick.net/post/1344073?start=9#comment-1826473

Link is there, go and read. It's right in your face. Yet you accuse me of lying by claiming that it's not there. Are you THAT dishonest or legally blind?

I see you ignored my question. Copy/pasting for your shopping convenience:
---
Hey, meant to ask you and forgot. How did you know which posts of mine marked as "personal" to ask Patrick to restore? There were like 10 of them, I understand that regular contributors can't see them. You asked specifically for what, 2? And your wish was very promptly granted. Just curious.
---

mostly reader says

My response:
mostly reader says

Here you go, dear senile: https://patrick.net/post/1344073?start=9#comment-1826473

Here's what that contains:

mostly reader says

This would be a 101 on how to detect one of the propaganda techniques.

Intro: most real-life situations have a large number of variables and moving parts. It's not always clear how they fit multi-dimentional world into a coherent picture based on incomplete and ambiguous data. Slight mis-interpretation of data points - a little bit to the right here, a little bit upwards there, skip this data point because it doesn't fit, stretch another one because it supports - and you get one pictures. Change the direction in which you move the points - and you get a different picture, which may also be consistent, yet be in conflict with the first one. That's what this technique does, it paints the picture by slight manipulation of data points. Lying by omission is quite popular with this approach.

In other words, just your bullshit - nothing I've said.

I don't care what YOU have to say. I consider you dishonest. I consider anything you write to be something to be disregarded at this point. You have no credibility with me. I don't consider you intellectually honest. I ignore all your opinions at this point.