patrick.net

No Nord Stream 2? No problem for Germany, economists say

FRANKFURT/BERLIN/DUESSELDORF (Reuters) - Abandoning the nearly complete Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline from Russia to Germany could create a legal mess and nudge up energy costs for European households but Germany would cope with any disruption to supplies, economists say.

German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas at the weekend questioned the project -- thus far supported by Germany -- following the suspected poisoning of Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny.

Chancellor Angela Merkel's spokesman reinforced the shift in tone on Monday, saying she shared the view of Maas, who told newspaper Bild am Sonntag: "I certainly hope that the Russians will not force us to change our position on Nord Stream 2."

Their comments cast doubt over the future of a project that is more than 90% complete, scheduled to operate from early 2021 and which would double the capacity of the existing Nord Stream 1 pipeline from Russia to Germany, Europe's largest economy.

Knocking out that additional capacity would put upward pressure on gas prices. But reduced energy demand due to the COVID-19 pandemic, and slack in the German economy, would give Berlin time to work out alternative additional supply sources.

"Germany could easily afford it," Berenberg Bank economist Holger Schmieding said of the possibility of axing the pipeline, describing the impact on economic output as "negligible".


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/no-nord-stream-2-no-164201815.html

Poland fines Russia's Gazprom $7.6 billion over pipeline

WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Polish antitrust authorities have fined Russia's state-owned energy giant Gazprom $7.6 billion (6.5 billion euros) for building the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline to Germany, saying the project hurts Polish consumers and increases Europe’s dependence on Russian imports.

....

The Polish authorities said the companies failed to obtain the required permission to jointly build and finance the pipeline, saying that violated antitrust laws. The decision obliges the six companies to cancel their contracts for financing the project.

“Carrying out the project is tantamount to breaking the rules of law and of fair competition that will lead to an increased dependence of gas recipients on the internal market on one supplier - Gazprom,” the antitrust office said.

....

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/poland-fines-russias-gazprom-7-102519721.html

What they're saying: "Following the recent geopolitical developments leading to the imposition of U.S. sanctions on Nord Stream 2 AG, the company had to terminate contracts with employees. We very much regret this development," Nord Stream 2 AG — a wholly owned subsidiary of Russia's Gazprom — told Reuters in a statement.

Between the lines: Even as the West and private companies have moved to fully isolate Russia over its unprovoked attack on Ukraine, former German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder — the chairman of the board of Nord Stream 2 AG — has yet to cut his lucrative ties with Russian energy giants.

Members of his office staff have quit in protest, according to Politico.

https://news.yahoo.com/operator-nord-stream-2-files-190612218.html?source=patrick.net

DIE, MOTHERFUCKING GAZPROM, FUCKING DIE ALREADY!

Eric Holder says

DIE, MOTHERFUCKING GAZPROM, FUCKING DIE ALREADY!

Hmmm... https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/OGZPY/?source=patrick.net

richwicks says

Eric Holder says

DIE, MOTHERFUCKING GAZPROM, FUCKING DIE ALREADY!

Hmmm... https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/OGZPY/?source=patrick.net

Good start.

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

Eric Holder says

DIE, MOTHERFUCKING GAZPROM, FUCKING DIE ALREADY!

Hmmm... https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/OGZPY/?source=patrick.net

Good start.

All it's going to do is drive up energy prices in Europe and Russia will just reroute energy to China. What? You think Gazprom is going to go tits up? British Petroleum poisoned the entire Gulf of Mexico.

China is the biggest customer for Russian Oil and Gas. $50B worth, twice that of the next European buyer.

"Power of Siberia" already pumps 38B CM3 of Gas to China. Soyuz East will be the same size as Nordstream.

This is just gas, not oil, coal, etc.

richwicks says

You think Gazprom is going to go tits up?

We'll see. Tits up, broken into smaller entities or laying on the bottom of Russian Ocean - all fine with me. =))

AmericanKulak says

China is the biggest customer for Russian Oil and Gas. $50B worth, twice that of the next European buyer.

"Power of Siberia" already pumps 38B CM3 of Gas to China. Soyuz East will be the same size as Nordstream.

This is just gas, not oil, coal, etc.

Good: more market for US LNG.

Eric Holder says

AmericanKulak says

China is the biggest customer for Russian Oil and Gas. $50B worth, twice that of the next European buyer.

"Power of Siberia" already pumps 38B CM3 of Gas to China. Soyuz East will be the same size as Nordstream.

This is just gas, not oil, coal, etc.

Good: more market for US LNG.

Yeah! FUCK those Europeans! Double their energy costs!

BTW - this is Moderna's stock:

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MRNA?p=MRNA&.tsrc=fin-srch

It's down 75% from its high. The difference is, no way would I consider buying them. Remember when we had that pandemic? Last week?

richwicks says

Good: more market for US LNG.

Yeah! FUCK those Europeans! Double their energy costs!

Bullshit: US gas is very competetive. What's more - it's safe. I agree with Trump: we should have a strong political, military and economical alliance with Europe. Russia can have good relations with us if it chooses to behave like a proper European country or go be a China's bitch if it doesn't.

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

Good: more market for US LNG.

Yeah! FUCK those Europeans! Double their energy costs!

Bullshit: US gas is very competetive. What's more - it's safe. I agree with Trump: we should have a strong political, military and economical alliance with Europe. Russia can have good relations with us if it chooses to behave like a proper European country or go be a China's bitch if it doesn't.

Agreed - and European countries can do business with whomever they want (they may of course lose nato "protection" but that may not be a bad thing at all), incl. Russia.

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

Good: more market for US LNG.

Yeah! FUCK those Europeans! Double their energy costs!

Bullshit: US gas is very competetive. What's more - it's safe.

Compressing natural gas, and putting it into ships, to cart over to Europe is not competitive, AT ALL, to a pipeline.

And what do you mean "it's safe"? It's natural gas. Russian natural gas isn't more volatile than US natural gas.

Eric Holder says

I agree with Trump: we should have a strong political, military and economical alliance with Europe.

Yeah, the oligarchy doesn't give a shit about that. Russia's banking system isn't under the control of the same people that run our banking system or Europe's, and if Russia can't export energy, the US can always do it by stealing it from the Middle East after they kill a few million people and make a profit.

That's all this is about.

Eric Holder says

Russia can have good relations with us if it chooses to behave like a proper European country or go be a China's bitch if it doesn't.

Dude, we're China's bitch. Look at the clothes you're wearing, the device you're using, the chair you're sitting in, the rug under your feet, even the paint on your walls - where do you think that came from?

Russia has a TRADE SURPLUS. All this crap about "Russia is a poor country" - yeah, maybe measured in terms of GDP, which is a bullshit measurement, which is why the US uses it. The richest country in the world today, is clearly China.

BERLIN—The German government will temporarily take control of a key unit of Russian state-owned natural gas giant Gazprom PJSC in Germany

https://www.wsj.com/articles/berlin-takes-control-of-gazproms-german-business-11649086113?source=patrick.net

Accumulating Resources and/or Making things is wealth, that's the ultimate purpose of money - to buy those commodities and things.

By that measure, the US is not rich.

AmericanKulak says

Accumulating Resources and/or Making things is wealth, that's the ultimate purpose of money - to buy those commodities and things.

By that measure, the US is not rich.

About 90% of the US's GDP is internal to the US. Only about 10% is trade related The amount of GDP that is trade related is among the lowest in the world. We also have the highest GDP in the world and our GDP per capita on a PPP basis is also very high.

We run a trade deficit, but out multi-national corporations' (mostly held by US stockholders) foreign operations dwarf this by a huge amount.

There is about $15 trillion in dollar denominated debt outside the US, As the Fed raises interest rates from near zero, the repercussions will be huge as dollars will become rapidly more needed to pay the interest on this debt.

We are the richest country on earth.

Misc says

We also have the highest GDP in the world and our GDP per capita on a PPP basis is also very high.

GDP only measures how much turnover there is within an economy. Its a totally useless metric for wealth of a nation. The only reason the US government CONSTANTLY harps about this is because the US has the highest GDP so our government keeps "mistaking" GDP for wealth.

Misc says

There is about $15 trillion in dollar denominated debt outside the US, As the Fed raises interest rates from near zero, the repercussions will be huge as dollars will become rapidly more needed to pay the interest on this debt.

This has been predicted YEARS ago (as one possibility) that before the US dollar blows up, it will go through deflation first, then massive inflation. We'll see. It would be the way to fuck over first people in debt, then to fuck over people who save. It screws the maximum number of people.

Italian Foreign Minister Luigi Di Mayo said that after the atrocities in Bucha, Italy will support sanctions against the russian gas

VILNIUS, Lithuania -- Lithuania says it has cut itself off entirely of gas imports from Russia, apparently becoming the first of the European Union's 27 nations using Russian gas to break its energy dependence upon Moscow.

“Seeking full energy independence from Russian gas, in response to Russia’s energy blackmail in Europe and the war in Ukraine, Lithuania has completely abandoned Russian gas,” Lithuania’s energy ministry said in a statement late Saturday, adding that the measure took effect in the beginning of April.

Eric Holder says

“Seeking full energy independence from Russian gas, in response to Russia’s energy blackmail in Europe and the war in Ukraine, Lithuania has completely abandoned Russian gas,” Lithuania’s energy ministry said in a statement late Saturday, adding that the measure took effect in the beginning of April.

It's a completely fungible commodity. Reminds me of the sanctions that US supposedly had against Iraq - all that happened is people in powerful places just lied about the sources, and walked around the sanctions and pocketing a few large fortunes in the process.

not sure what this means, will this do anything for our gas prices? They haven't come down yet.

FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut says

not sure what this means, will this do anything for our gas prices? They haven't come down yet.

No connection whatsoever.

RWSGFY says

FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut says

not sure what this means, will this do anything for our gas prices? They haven't come down yet.

No connection whatsoever.

Yes, we totally live in a free market now that supply and demand is completely disconnected from price..

richwicks says

fuck over people who save.

I have a feeling that before the hyper-inflation, gold will break out of its current doldrums and start to equilibrate against the true CPI in terms of the USD.

So far, having studied gold charts, I don't see that situation yet.

When it happens, better become a gold bug before it's too late. Right now, my exposure to gold is a sliver of my portfolio, since I bought some circa $400/oz and the other section, when it was around $1100/oz.

DooDahMan says

Kyiv Halts Russian Gas Shipments Through Key Hub

Russian gas flows to Europe via Ukraine fell by a quarter on May 11 after Kyiv announced that it would stop Russian shipments through its key Novopskov hub in the east, blaming interference by Russian forces in the region.

It is the first time exports have been disrupted since Moscow launched its unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. Despite the war, Ukraine has remained a major transit route for Russian gas to Europe.

Russia's state-controlled energy giant Gazprom, which has a monopoly on Moscow's gas exports by pipeline, said it was still shipping gas to Europe via Ukraine, but volumes were seen at 72 million cubic meters (mcm) on May 11, down from 95.8 mcm the previous day.

Wow, 3rd month into the war and it turns out that the gas has been flowing uniterrupted up until now (until very smart RuZZians decided to occupy the territory it's going through and fuck with the equipment, that is). Puts a giant stake into the heart of "West and Ukraine have always wanted to stop RuZZian gas from flowing through there" low-IQ conspiracy theory.

So another inch closer to the drain for Gazprom and no other than Putin did it to them.

The fuckers had such a nice gig going....

DooDahMan says

since Moscow launched its unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

Adding biased phrases like "unprovoked" to the article show that the author is biased and the article is thus unreliable.

HeadSet says

DooDahMan says

since Moscow launched its unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

Adding biased phrases like "unprovoked" to the article show that the author is biased and the article is thus unreliable.

These are not biased words but factual description. Because we're 3rd month into the invasion and still no proof of any existential threat to Russia from Ukraine have been provided or emerged. They had no credible casus belli, pure and simple.

RWSGFY says

HeadSet says

DooDahMan says

since Moscow launched its unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

Adding biased phrases like "unprovoked" to the article show that the author is biased and the article is thus unreliable.

These are not biased words but factual description

That's not true. Russia has been trying to negotiate with Ukraine for 8 solid years. They attempted to bring this up multiple times at the UN. They have been entirely consistent and clear for the entire time.

Ukraine can't join NATO (not that France or Germany would allow it, but neither France nor Germany stated that, neither did Ukraine)
Stop bombing Eastern Ukraine and follow the Minsk Accords.

Ukraine has ignored this the entire time, they never negotiated in good faith. So quit lying.

richwicks says

That's not true. Russia has been trying to negotiate with Ukraine for 8 solid years.

There's one thing on patnet that doesn't change: puturds running their little propaganda campaign.

How exactly did they negotiate? By installing their puppet Yanukovitch? By taking over Crimea? By sending their goons to Donetsk/Lugansk? Or by leading hybrid war for 8 years?
Will you actually be stupid enough to claim that non of this happened?

If I didn't know your MO I'd feel sorry for someone so misinformed. But since I know your MO, the feeling is that of disgust.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

That's not true. Russia has been trying to negotiate with Ukraine for 8 solid years.

There's one thing on patnet that doesn't change: puturds running their little propaganda campaign.

Just demonstrate I'm incorrect. You're again wasting your time insulting me.

mostly reader says

How exactly did they negotiate? By installing their puppet Yanukovitch?

There was no conflict when their puppet Yanukovitch was in power. There was a problem when the CIA took over the nation by staging a fake revolution. That's when Western Ukraine began bombing Eastern Ukraine and began claiming they were going to join NATO. NATO is a defunct organization, it should have been dissolved when the Warsaw Pact was.

mostly reader says

By taking over Crimea?

Well, they weren't going to give up their naval base there. They are majority Russian there. The US would be more likely to give up Guantanamo.

mostly reader says

By sending their goons to Donetsk/Lugansk? Or by leading hybrid war for 8 years?

Well you got REAL war now.

mostly reader says

Will you actually be stupid enough to claim that non of this happened?

I'm pointing out none of this would have happened if the US didn't overthrow Ukraine in 2014.

mostly reader says

If I didn't know your MO I'd feel sorry for someone so misinformed. But since I know your MO, the feeling is that of disgust.

I find it difficult you believe what you claim to believe. You never source information, EVER. I do.

And now, all the evidence is being wiped by "Big Tech", ala 1984. Seems legit..

I don't believe my government because they are proven and habitual liars. Why do you believe anything the US government says?

mostly reader says

How exactly did they negotiate? By installing their puppet Yanukovitch? By taking over Crimea? By sending their goons to Donetsk/Lugansk? Or by leading hybrid war for 8 years?

So we have never negotiated with countries and parties involved in military actions? Following that logic we should be at war with dozens of countries, including some large powers. Nato deliberately did not negotiate seriously ever on this, instead they poked the bear. If you're fine with plenty of Ukrainians and Russians dying over a conflict involving small areas of Ukraine and neutrality that's between you and your conscience, but insults don't help that cause. Neither does invoking godwins law, Hitler quickly declared war on the entire world within a few years, whereas this has been a localized conflict over small regions for decades. They should come to the table, negotiate a deal and make it clear that this is about the separatist regions only and any future aggression deviating from the deal and expanding will be met with force.

mell says

They should come to the table, negotiate a deal and make it clear that this is about the separatist regions only and any future aggression deviating from the deal and expanding will be met with force.

This isn't about saving lives, it's about weakening Russia, and if the conflict expands, weakening Europe - the only downside is that it's POTENTIAL the end of modern civilization if it goes to nuclear war.

It's not fucking traitors to the nation that run this country, they are traitors to all of humanity, if not all life.

richwicks says

This isn't about saving lives,

Clearly it isn't. Let Europe deal with it, engage in diplomacy only and only engage in military actions and aid if a Nato member is attacked. The US has been broke for a while (like plenty of other countries), hence the fiery printing and massive inflation and shortages.

richwicks says

Just demonstrate I'm incorrect. You're again wasting your time insulting me.

I've done it, and repeatedly. Your typical pattern is 1) to pretend that it didn't happen, 2) when referred back demand quotes 3) when receive quote ignore or divert to another topic.

richwicks says

There was no conflict when their puppet Yanukovitch was in power.

I think you are saying that Russian puppets are good because Russia is happy and there's no conflict with Russia. In other words, Russia should be able to install it's puppets, let you live in return, and it's a fair compromise. If anyone ever needs proof that you are Putler's propaganda troll, this is a good reference point.

But even there you are DEAD WRONG. Medal for "Return of Crimea", Russian campaign medal of the Ministry of Defense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal%22For_the_Return_of_Crimea%22 Yanukovich was still in the office when it was issued. Do you know how much time is needed to discuss, approve, and then to issue a government award? Let's just say - it doesn't happen overnight. You are obviously passionate about the topic, and then it turns out that you don't know shit about it.

richwicks says

Well you got REAL war now.

And it's a continuation of the hybrid war they started in 2014. BOTH were started by Russia. "It was so avoidable, we really should've been nicer to that crocodile." Pathetic.

richwicks says

I'm pointing out none of this would have happened if the US didn't overthrow Ukraine in 2014.

I already pointed out that your perpetual repetition of a false doesn't make it true. I explained why. You couldn't argue against the explanation, so you just dismissed it and engaged "whack-a-mole" mode.

richwicks says

I don't believe my government because they are proven and habitual liars. Why do you believe anything the US government says?

I repeatedly pointed out that I don't get my opinions from US government. You are full of shit. Again.

Yet you do spread Rushist propaganda. There are no bigger, more psychopathic liars on this planet. You absolutely, positively, have no right to criticize anyone's source of data.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Just demonstrate I'm incorrect. You're again wasting your time insulting me.

I've done it, and repeatedly.

Quote me. We're going back to this.

You claim you've done shit, that you haven't demonstrated. As soon as I see you do this, I just ignore everything else you write. If your first statement to me is a lie, there's nothing else coming from you worth considering.

Quote me - provide a link.

How have you demonstrated I'm incorrect? What statement did I make, that you demonstrated was incorrect, quote me, and quote yourself.

Or don't bother me. Your "proof" is you said I was wrong and insinuated I was having anal sex with Putin. This is your primary form of argument and discussion.

I've said it before, mostly reader is the most comically ironic username on PatNet,

richwicks says

Quote me - provide a link.

I dedicated a post to your use of grey propaganda, with a specific example. Are you saying that you don't remember? Yes or no?

Here, I want to make it blatantly obvious that your demands for a quote is a stalling technique.

richwicks says

Your "proof" is you said I was wrong and insinuated I was having anal sex with Putin.

I did no such thing, let's be clear about who said what. My statement was that your tongue is stuck in a part of Putin's body. There was nothing about anal sex. Furthermore, I didn't use it as a proof. It was an inference from your observed endearment of Putler.

mell says

richwicks says

This isn't about saving lives,

Clearly it isn't. Let Europe deal with it

The United States wants war - they aren't going to engage in diplomacy. They want to weaken Russia, and if it weakens Europe, that's fine too.

mell says

engage in diplomacy only and only engage in military actions and aid if a Nato member is attacked.

NATO is a stupid gift. Countries that have it get free money, they don't pay for it. If we had people that gave a shit about the United States in power, they would dump their treaties with Europe and join Russia to squeeze Europe.

I can think like a sociopath. That would be what is best for this nation. Prop up Russia, victimize Europe. We control the oil for the most part from the Middle East, we can make a deal with Russia to make them the SOLE SUPPLIER of energy for Europe.

If the sociopaths that run this nation cared about this nation - and they don't.

mell says

The US has been broke for a while (like plenty of other countries), hence the fiery printing and massive inflation and shortages.

Well, if I was a sociopath in control, I would have been steadily collecting gold for the last 20 years and working with Russia behind the scenes to upend the US dollar, and replace it with a new currency.

We'll see. We'll see if traitors are running this country or not in a few years. I think traitors run this nation though.

It's easy to think like a sociopath, just imagine the entire situation like a video game. Do you care when you kill another player or when you are killed?

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Quote me - provide a link.

I dedicated a post to your use of grey propaganda,

No quote. No link.

Provide a quote and links. Show your dedicated post, quote it, provide links. I expect you to point to any random post, and dishonestly claim it proves something it doesn't. This is why I'm saying "quote it", if you do - I expect you to lie about the quotes.

I'm not going to expend any effort with you. You can insult me all you like, but I have judged you to be dishonest to my own satisfaction, and as a result, as soon as I detect a lie I ignore anything beyond that. You can admit "error" and we can move on, or you can demonstrate I'm in error, and then we'll move on.

See what I've quoted from you? That's as much as I've read of yours. I don't think you are worth even considering. I judge it pointless to spend even a minute reading what you write. To me, you're either a brainwashed fanatic or a legitimate propagandist. Not the first one I've encountered. People just can't conceive paid liars exist, I know they do.

I respond to you to demonstrate your dishonesty, not because I learn anything from you at this point. If you're not a propagandist, it's interesting you fall into the same playbook of Hasbera. You can insult me if you like but again, it doesn't matter.