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MisdemeanorRebel
2015 Sep 10, 9:42am
We crushed the Arab Spring on purpose. We sanctioning General Sisi of Egypt or Prince Salman, the Absolute Monarch of Saudi Arabia? There's no democracy there, you can dispute the level of democracy in Russia, but there's nothing to dispute with Egypt or Saudi Arabia or Qatar or Bahrain - there's NO democracy there. So where are the US Sanctions for Freedom?
Spent the whole Cold War crushing Nationalist and Socialist groups by supporting dictators in the ME, who also crushed the few Democrats that were there to maintain their power. The only alternative ideology alive there now is Fundamentalist Islam. Everything going on today is caused to a great deal by the result of our actions and support.
We did fund "Democracy Activists" in Syria. They took weapons and training from US advisers in Turkey, then joined ISIS. We betrayed the Kurds for the second or third time in 30 years, looking the other way when Turkish planes bomb Kurdish strongholds in Syria, right now, in the guise of "Anti-ISIS" operations.
You realize that Assad is fighting for his life against ISIS, right? And that if he dies, the first act of ISIS - hell, they're doing it right now in areas they control - is to impose Fundamentalist Islam and ethnically cleanse all the Syrian Minorities.
How many refugees streamed from Syria in 1980, 1990, 2000, 2010 and all this time the Assads running the country?
How'd Libya turn out, nice democracy? No, a few generals and oligarchs in one corner of the country, the rest contested between various Fundamentalist Islamic groups.
How do you deal with a bunch of spoiled .1%ers who meddle endlessly to the detriment of American prestige and power, to say nothing of the chaos and destruction sewn?
Tenpoundbass
2015 Sep 10, 9:49am
So basically the Liberals run out ways to blame Bush for Obama's fuck ups, that they are now pointing their fingers at Putin, for what Obama, kerry and Hillary has done.
Everybody knows who the numberone Emam is, Emam Obama. His jacket liner is the ISIS flag.
How'd Libya turn out, nice democracy? No, a few generals and oligarchs in one corner of the country, the rest contested between various Fundamentalist Islamic groups.
How do you deal with a bunch of spoiled .1%ers who meddle endlessly to the detriment of American prestige and power, to say nothing of the chaos and destruction sewn?
If this is the case, then how well thought out is the current Iran Agreement, and how will this turn out?
How do you deal with a bunch of spoiled .1%ers who meddle endlessly to the detriment of American prestige and power, to say nothing of the chaos and destruction sewn?
You review that our involvement can have long term deleterious effects. Is this because in dictactorial regions, that I group we support gets bullied by the local junta for years before they weaken and convert?
How should we feel about the removal of the Eastern Europe wall, now that Putin would like to grab some newly minted EU countries in the middle.
Are you saying that democracies and republics run by (not perfect) rule of law societies should capitulate and say why bother when people are being cleansed?
MisdemeanorRebel
2015 Sep 10, 10:52am
If this is the case, then how well thought out is the current Iran Agreement, and how will this turn out?
It'll be fine. Name all the wars Iran started since 1979. You know how many Iranian nuclear inspections the US got to run before the agreement? 0.
People opposed to the Treaty WANT war with Iran. It was supposed to be stop #3 on the Neocon World Tour after Iraq, but Saudi Arabian Foreign Fighters tied us down in Iraq.
How should we feel about the removal of the Eastern Europe wall, now that Putin would like to grab some newly minted EU countries in the middle.
What EU countries has Putin invaded? You really think Putin wants to conquer economic basketcases Lithuania and Latvia with a strong history of Nazi collaboration apologetics, to the point of starting prosecutorial inquests against Jewish Partisans and stripping 3-4th Generation residents of full citizenship?
What would be the point? Is Russia, which stretches from the Baltic to the Pacific with endless ranges of Taiga Forest short of amber and pine trees?
Are you saying that democracies and republics run by (not perfect) rule of law societies should capitulate and say why bother when people are being cleansed?
What democracies and republics are you talking about? None of the Gulf States are Republics, nor is Egypt. Nay, not one. They don't even pretend to be in their names. They are ruled by nobles, Sheiks and Kings.
Is this because in dictactorial regions, that I group we support gets bullied by the local junta for years before they weaken and convert?
If you want to know why the Ayatollah is in power, it's a direct result of us empowering the radical Shi'a clergy in an attempt to overthrow Mossadegh, an elected Nationalist who wanted to nationalize the oil to fund the development of his country - something Malaysia, Venezuela (inc. long before Chavez), Brazil, etc. do and are still doing. The brutality of the Shah, another absolute Monarch backed by the West, is another reason.
When you help dictators overthrow all the other reform groups, from Communists to Nationalists (the dictators also use your weapons to kill off their other threat to power, Democrats), and you use radical Jihadis in the process, don't be surprised if the Jihadis win the country, as they're the only alternative left.
What democracies and republics are you talking about? None of the Gulf States are Republics, nor is Egypt. Nay, not one. They don't even pretend to be in their names. They are ruled by nobles, Sheiks and Kings
We know that Dictatorships do what they will - instill fear in their own people. You inverted the question, the Republics that might have a concern for the long term fair governance of the people, obviously not the Dictator.
Are you suggesting that Dictators should rule more nations, and that societies who view ethnic cleansing as Murder should just not help due to their best laid plans actually making it worse in some cases?
MisdemeanorRebel
2015 Sep 10, 11:55am
Are you suggesting that Dictators should rule more nations, and that societies who view ethnic cleansing as Murder should just not help due to their best laid plans actually making it worse in some cases?
That is the pretext, not the point. The US has demonstrably overthrown republics it doesn't like and supported many military coups against elected governments in Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, etc. resulting in dictatorships and military oligarchies.
The "Freedom and Democracy" is nonsense, a scam for rubes, a pretext. It's about "Do you do want we want? If you were a republic, would we get a friendly government?"
Like I said, Saudi Arabia never experiences the slightest pressure to institute democratic reforms, because Freedom and Democracy isn't the reason, but the pretext. Since Saudi Arabia suborns our politicians, and supports us overthrowing governments we also don't like (and vice-versa) , they won't get "Freedom Bombs".
Iran, which is far, far, far more of a democracy than Saudi Arabia (which is not one at all), is constantly discussed as in need of regime change. Note I am not saying Iran is a perfect democracy, or even a tolerable one, just that it is far more democratic in the sense you can actually vote for the President and Parliament, than in Saudi Arabia. King Salman wasn't elected, nor were any of his ministers, nor even the mayor of the smallest village in the desert.
Hell, you get thrown in prison and hundreds of lashes just for suggesting in an internet forum that "we should revisit the powers of the Religious Police." in Saudi Arabia.
MisdemeanorRebel
2015 Sep 10, 11:59am
If you get ganged raped, you get 200 lashes. Because she was out with a non-relative when it happened, then later spoke to the press about her experience.
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/03/05/saudi-court-sentences-gang-rape-victim-to-200-lashes-and-custodial-sentence/
The lawyer who defends rape victims also gets 1000 lashes and 10 years in prison, for criticizing the Religious Police. What a Haram Shirk Infidel, Westoxified!
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/06/saudi-arabia-every-lash-of-raif-badawi-defies-international-law/
Let Freedom ring,
Let the White Dove sing,
The whole world knows that today,
America loves Saudi Arabia
Let the whip snap strong,
Let the whore and infidel be wronged
To support King Salman and his religious police,
Congress M-16s has sold and leased.
California made F-15s and M1A1s are on the way
It's Friendly Dictator Day
Bullys are bullies as long as we let them bully. Give bully's what they want, and dont push back, then they bully more.
Why did the Iran hostages get out around the first day of Reagans first term. Iyatolya was just fixin' to release them anyhow?
http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/09/27/351783611/kidnapped-by-isis-one-woman-tells-how-she-saved-her-sisters
This is one reason why we need egalitarian nations to thrive. We and other should be helping this genocide and ethnic cleansing.
Because our current leadership has made massive mistakes in diplomacy, not helping with middle east desire for getting rid of despots, and allowing the growth of terror, the world is a much less safe place.
In fact the devils in the details. Its appears that Russias goal to rustle the US's feathers may end up helping and giving aid to terrorists (see Syrian support) and denying the egalitarian response that we should be persuing.
Where is not Obama right now on the Phone with Putin, suggesting a way to end to all this: Potential Answer: Because Putin sees the terror/genocide but knows that this is a chance to further weaken our JV emporer and undermine the US while the power of Russia and China grow.
How do you deal with an ex Communist, and an emerging Marxist?