patrick.net

Rin says

Let's face it Marcus, you just can't accept the notion that Harvard is not that difficult of an academic place vs let's say the Univ of Illinois/UC-Science/Engineering, where ppl are competing all of the time for their grades.

Never disputed that in the slightest.

thunderlips11 says

Ivy Leagues aren't meritocracies.

At this point in time, the last meritocracy is that Univ of London distance program.

More and more on-campus types of programs are becoming lame, as a result of catering to those with money in the bank. Even the vaunted Univ of Chicago undergrad is giving into grade inflation because it's facing a flight of students to other private schools, as a result of maintaining its earlier standards of having real grades.

To shatter your illusion, I knew one Seal, to quote him, "anyone can do it, if they set there mind to it" .

The Harvard, MIT, Ivy league school thing is more about cronyism than meritocracy.

The true test is the market, without the cronyism that is.

indigenous says

I knew one Seal, to quote him, "anyone can do it, if they set there mind to it" .

Except that he made it and thus, could offer that perspective from his own individual will power.

In contrast, most others, can't get through BUD/S training.

As for Harvard, most anyone can get through the coursework, provided that they actually did it. And no, it doesn't involve breaking down one's body to do it.

Ironman says

I was writing code long before you were even shot out by your surrogate father at the sperm bank.

Feel free to post some of your "code" so we can laugh at it.

Rin says

a SEAL could beat me one-on-one, anytime he wants

n 2010, the Navy, with the help of Gallup, identified seven sports that breed athletes who have the highest rate of becoming a SEAL—water polo, swimming, triathlons, lacrosse, boxing, rugby, and wrestling. Of that group, water polo players had the highest odds of making through SEAL training, odds that doubled if they played the sport in college.

“It’s a physical job,” said Scott Williams, public affairs officer for Naval Special Warfare Command, told The San Diego Union Tribune. “So we need guys who have a competitive spirit and are used to hard work and training.”

Other pursuits that predict success in the SEALs is regular participation in alternative sports such as skiing, mountain climbing, and martial arts, earning a bachelor’s degree, and having regular hobbies like chess or woodworking.

http://www.webpronews.com/navy-seals-recruit-heavily-from-seven-sports-2014-06/

From the Article, written by a former West Point Grad, Army Ranger and graduate of Harvard Business School

I have a running pet peeve that the U.S. Navy SEALs are the most overhyped military unit in history. They are somewhat skilled and have had some successes, like the the three snipers killing the three pirates and the Osama bin Laden killing, but they also seem to have, maybe more than their share, of dopey screw-ups like Operation Redwing or the Chinook shootdown in Afghanistan.

Here is another where a SEAL brought a woman home from a bar and was showing her his guns when he pointed one he thought was empty at his head and pulled the trigger, killing himself.

“The most elite military unit in the world.”

And then there is the Pentagon getting investigated for refusing to tell the public details about the killing of bin Laden because they were secret, but sharing those military secret details with a Hollywood production company that is going to make the movie Act of Valor about the SEALs.

SEALs say they want no publicity, but a number of them are playing themselves in the movie. And of course we are incapable of seeing the absurd hypocrisy of that claim and fact because we are blinded by the reflections from the SEALs’ medals.

There is probably no more public-relations-conscious military unit in history than the SEALs, with the possible exception of the U.S. Marine Corps, both subsidiaries of the U.S. Navy, which has also masterfully handled the challenging public relations task of keeping secret the fact that surface ships have been obsolete against modern enemies since around 1955."

He goes into a lot of the BUD/S training and criticizes it for it's lack of relevance to the types of missions they execute

http://www.johntreed.net/NavySEALSbloopers.html

Differences between going to West Point and a Scholarship

Can’t walk away
Civilian college students on scholarship can quit the school any time they want and walk away with no further obligation of any kind.

That is also true of West Point cadets, but only before their junior year starts in September. If you quit after junior year, you become a U.S. Army enlisted man. I do not know the current details, but when I was there, a junior cadet who quit became a corporal in the Army and had to stay there for four years. If a senior quit, he became a buck sergeant in the Army and had to stay there for five years. This was during the Vietnam War.

Eight years of indentured servitude
If you stay at West Point until graduation, you become a 2nd lieutenant and have to spend five years on active duty and three years thereafter in the Army Reserves.

During World War I and II, cadets were graduated before they had been there for four years and sent to war. After Wold War I, they came back and completed their studies as Army officers.

Civilian college students on scholarship have no obligation bearing even the slightest relationship to these active-duty Army obligations. If you simply walk away from West Point and the Army, you are a deserter under the UCMJ.

Furthermore, it gets far worse. Most college students graduate owing student loans. Some might say the need to stay in the Army for eight years is paying back a loan. No, it’s not. It is more accurately described as indentured servitude. I mean that literally. Indentured servitude has long been illegal in civilian life, and they do not use the phrase indentured servitude in the military, but that is exactly what it is. You cannot leave for a term of years and the idea is you are paying back your master either for transportation to the New World or training.

http://johntreed.myshopify.com/blogs/john-t-reed-s-news-blog/76473219-west-point-ain-t-no-scholarship

Are Elite Military Units really Elite?

Areas where John T. Reed thinks the military are 'truly elite' compared to their civilian counterparts

The faculty at the U.S. Military Academy (West Point—may be true of Annapolis and the Air Force Academy as well. I wouldn’t know. A guy I roomed with for two years when we were cadets was the commander of this unit in the early 2000s, that is, he was the Dean of the Academic Board at West Point.)

The Navy’s Blue Angels (fighter jet acrobatic demonstration team)

The Air Force’s Thunderbirds (fighter jet acrobatic demonstration team)

Navy nuclear submariners

Green Berets

It's really long, so read it if interested when you have a few minutes

http://johntreed.com/blogs/john-t-reed-s-blog-about-military-matters/65802307-elite-military-units-army-rangers

Well MMR, that explains everything, I'd only played basketball; I'd never taken up water polo.

In fact, all of those I'd known, who'd flunked BUD/S or any of the other special forces pre-screening tests were either HS or college players in basketball, hockey, football, soccer, baseball, or karate/martial arts.

But here's the thing, friendly fire killings, which were well known via our Vietnam era elders, isn't the reason why the special forces have gaping issues. It's really that there's no such thing as a perfect specimen, the best physical shape, along with the mental equipment to go with it. And at the same time, sure, there will be rivalries between the divisions of the armed forces.

Yet, it doesn't change this one fundamental issue ... that pretty much, anyone from the greater Boston area, can take classes at Harvard Extension and then later, opt for sections at Harvard College/daytime, provided a B+ GPA, and still perform very well despite having no chance at ordinary admissions.

According to Ivy propaganda, they're special and thus, ordinary New Englanders can't make the marks. The fact that this has been continually disproven for decades, just by regular (sorry, above average) Joes living in and around Boston, makes Harvard undergrad less rigorous than the Navy SEALS BUD/S program.

And as we know, if these Joes decided to attend the Univ of Illinois, for their final BS degree, chances are, they won't get recruited by Goldman Sachs or McKinsey.

And thus, the only *above average* Joe solution is the Univ of London online, which give 'em the LSE affiliation but w/o the crony BS before attaining it.

Rin says

And as we know, if these Joes decided to attend the Univ of Illinois, for their final BS degree, chances are, they won't get recruited by Goldman Sachs or McKinsey.

I can't argue with that. I see some people here attempt to do that, but it's incredible that others can do that. Rigorous schools with no grade inflation can't compete with Ivies for recruitment into these firms.

MMR says

Rin says

And as we know, if these Joes decided to attend the Univ of Illinois, for their final BS degree, chances are, they won't get recruited by Goldman Sachs or McKinsey.

I can't argue with that. I see some people here attempt to do that, but it's incredible that others can do that. Rigorous schools with no grade inflation can't compete with Ivies for recruitment into these firms.

The only non-grade inflation school is the Univ of London, which has pull in management consulting and financial services sectors.

The problem there (if you're not on the residential London side), is that one still needs to push the alumni circles, to get one's resume on the top of the stack. Still, it's doable, as UoL, even if it's the distance UoL with LSE as the lead college program, is considered one of the boys, despite not having a full campus presence.

We'd actually interviewed a guy from Jo'burg (nickname for Johannsburg South Africa) who's doing exactly that while interning at places in SA. Our senior partners consider him to be an insider. All they needed to hear was *first class honours*, to get him into the 2nd round. I haven't seen such admiration for any of the SUNY or UConn types w/o a lot of pre-existing experience.

In contrast, Univ of Illinois types in finance, have already gotten their 2-4 years and went for their postgraduate work at a Wharton or a Univ of Chicago and thus, are no longer state u types afterwards.

Rin says

n contrast, Univ of Illinois types in finance, have already gotten their 2-4 years and went for their postgraduate work at a Wharton or a Univ of Chicago and thus, are no longer state u types afterwards.

Indeed, and that is the reality of the hoops one has to jump through if they are talented, but not lucky enough to get into the Ivy league directly out of high school. Rin says

I haven't seen such admiration for any of the SUNY or UConn types w/o a lot of pre-existing experience.

Naturally....it's a pedigree thing and bragging rights for your firm.Rin says

hances are, they won't get recruited by Goldman Sachs or McKinsey

as you've stated before, they're not interested in middle-class or poor people. Only elites/elitists

Ironman says

I was writing code long before you were even shot out by your surrogate father at the sperm bank.

Do you teach programming at the local community college on the side by any chance?

MMR says

Indeed, and that is the reality of the hoops one has to jump through if they are talented, but not lucky enough to get into the Ivy league directly out of high school.

Sad but true

MMR says

Naturally....it's a pedigree thing and bragging rights for your firm

It's not as much bragging per se, but a part of being seen as *one of us*.

The Univ of London, even the distance program, despite the fact that it's a merit/exam based system (with ways for lower to middle class Commonwealth entrants to get through), is a strange mix of elitism and egalitarianism. In a sense, it's almost like the French Foreign legion where if you're a hard core studier/exam taker, you can wipe out your state u (a/o ordinary public school/average-to-lower class) past and cast yourself as a member of the up and coming soon-to-be elite *City Worker* crowd. I'm yet to see anything like it, anywhere else, because it's not exorbitantly overpriced and is reachable by a lot of ppl.

(FYI, *City Worker* here means someone who works in London's financial services sector like around Canary Wharf or the One Square Mile. It doesn't mean public works, like the trolley/transit or street cleaning jobs in America.)

I mean one can get a degree out of Duke or Brown, paying ala carte for every single class, there is a way to do that but let's face it, that's not a middle classer. That's a stupid rich kid, who was too stupid and lazy to do any homework at his Philip's academy. Yes, the number of backdoors for the idle rich are exuberant.

The moral of the story is that unless you'd won a full scholarship, do not attend a state u with a top international science and engineering program like the Univ of Illinois/Urbana-Champaign because outside of a few STEM companies, your brand name will be no different than that of anyone, who'd attend a local state u, anywhere else in the country. It's very unlikely that you'd be recruited by management consulting or financial firms, despite the fact that for your Magna Cum Laude, you'd be doing twice the work as someone at Harvard or Yale College.

Instead, take the basic premed reqs at your neighborhood community college and then, transfer to the Univ of London online; study hard and graduate first class honours. Assuming that you work out your own internships but network with alumni, you'd have a much better shot at a career in management consulting or finance, if you decide not to attend medical school. Also, if you do attend medical school but later, want to leave medicine for management consulting, a London affiliation could still help with that career change.

Rin says

The moral of the story is that unless you'd won a full scholarship, do not attend a state u with a top international science and engineering program like the Univ of Illinois/Urbana-Champaign because outside of a few STEM companies, your brand name will be no different than that of anyone, who'd attend a local state u, anywhere else in the country.

As a UIUC engineering grad, I'll have to disagree with this one. The brand name among engineers is strong, as you know, and I, like the vast majority of students there, didn't want a consulting or financial job. If I did, I would have gone somewhere else.

Rin says

And thus, the only *above average* Joe solution is the Univ of London online, which give 'em the LSE affiliation but w/o the crony BS before attaining it.

Why do you keep spouting this trite nonsense? LSE is one of 27 schools at University of London. What affiliation are you babbling about? Anyone who knows enough to be impressed by LSE would know this, obviously you don't.

tatupu70 says

The brand name among engineers is strong, as you know, and I, like the vast majority of students there, didn't want a consulting or financial job. If I did, I would have gone somewhere else.

A lot of ppl begin in STEM but move into other areas like consulting or finance, after getting started. Since UIUC offers one of the best educational values in the country, it should have the ability to place ppl laterally in a bunch of those adjacent areas, as does MIT, where many of their graduates do work in McKinsey, Morgan & Stanley, etc, not just Microsoft, Google, etc,

BTW, I'd kicked Bob off my threads as he's been pretty much a dick, trolling around all of the time.

In fact, some time ago one of his greatest interjections was the following statement:

bob says

There is no London University, it's the UNIVERSITY OF LONDON! Bahahahahaha!!!!!!

Ok, I added the emoticon at the end but that's the essence of this troll. Instead of offering meaningful advice, he just acts as if MMR, Thunderlips, and others can't figure this out on their own without his insipid interjections. As for his brilliant statement, colloquially speaking, ppl have called the University of Cambridge, Cambridge University, and likewise, the University of London, London University. But yes, in terms of grammatical excellence, bob's proven his merit.

Bob's repeated himself a number of times, acting as if his insight is amazing and that the great observation of his is that the on-campus Univ of London LSE (London School of Economics) is not the distance program which is simply called the Univ of London International Programme. --- (which BTW, I'd already acknowledged)

In Bob's infinite wisdom and clarification, this is some trump card.

Here's the story ... the London School of Economics creates the materials/exams for economics for the offsite/International Programme and is listed as the lead college. It's known that the long distance program is not on-campus, yet, the programs are equivalent because the finals are LSE finals.

http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/lse/bsc-economics

At the same time, for other majors outside of let's say economics & related topics, there are other schools like the School of Oriental & African studies, University College London, etc.

And would you believe that many of these other schools also place ppl into careers in consulting and finance? Yes, because in the UK (plus Commonwealth) world, they're also highly regarded and share the umbrella at London. There is a huge difference between attending these programs and some random Univ of East Anglia in northeast England. Many successful folks have done this remote program and it's been around for over a century and half. What this is referred to is the halo effect of the University of London system.

What great STEM programs, like UIUC, fail at is that they don't get it. The fact that for some decades, graduates have been successful at entry level stints at a Shell or an IBM research, doesn't spill over onto the corporate suites. Sure, there's the random Beckman Instruments, along with Marc Anderssen's Netscape, but for the most part, UIUC is not seen as a place where a STEM graduate will later be a business leader or even on some steering committee, leading R&D efforts.

So what happens in the UIUC example is that the smart kid now works hard in R&D for 5 years but then later, bolts for a Univ of Chicago MBA, re-inventing himself in management consulting for the tech sector.

For Thunderlips and MMR, let me give you two sample resumes (with names/locations changed) and tell me if you can identify the lower to middle class mentality …

____

Rich:

Experience:

Data Analyst, Beta-Zetta Capital Group
Analyzed deal book dynamics for field operations.

Education:

BS, Electrical Engineering Summa Cum Laude, SUNY/Stony Brook
Presented on signal processing dynamics studies.
Diploma, Stuyvesant High School

____

Eddie:

Experience:

Research Analyst, Beta-Zetta Capital Group
Analyzed deal book dynamics for field operations.

Education:

BS, Economics, University of London, First Class Honours, Lead College: LSE

Certificate in Computation, University of Cape Town, presented symposium on risk identification in steady state round trip studies.

____

Notice the difference, Rich is proud of the fact that he's some data/detail expert and at the same time, proudly displays his magnet HS, thinking that it overshadows his college namesake.

In contrast, Eddie only showed that he'd gotten himself some certificate, perhaps an associate degree at best, with some computational work but then, used that to present a topic, relevant for a trading desk. But instead of proudly beating his chest about that data/technical work, he instead, overlays the Univ of London and presents himself as a research analyst, not a data type.

Guess what, Eddie got the interview, Rich was snickered at, because the HS bit made him look like a goofball and the rest wasn't all that interesting.

Also, Eddie's mother is American and thus, he's carrying two passports, USA and SA, so there's no visa issue here either.

Ironman says

Maybe you should have studied finance, then you wouldn't look like such an idiot here.

I did. But thanks for playing. Next time I need advice from someone who doesn't even know the basics of supply and demand--I'll look you up.

Ironman says

MMR says

Ironman says

I was writing code long before you were even shot out by your surrogate father at the sperm bank.

Do you teach programming at the local community college on the side by any chance?

Nope, it was way back when going to college for engineering.

Way to pussy out like you always do!

I guess CIC wasn't lying for once. I found some of his old "college engineering code".

10 input "Is it a goat"; a$
20 print a$
30 if a$ = "y" then print "Try to fuck it." else print "OMG, a bull is behind you! Try to suck it's cock."
40 input "Did it fuck you instead"; a$
50 if a$ = "y" then print "That's still good." else print "Well, try again."

Let me play Bob for a minute ...

Dan8267 says

else print "OMG, a bull is behind you! Try to suck it's cock."

Dan, you don't "suck it's cock", it's "suck its cock", bahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm bob and I'm a genius, all knowing and wiser than others.

Here's one more of Bob, for the road ...

Bob goes to see the premed advisor/committee chair of his university.

Advisor: "Bob, you need to submit an overall Science GPA for medical school admissions' committees."

Bob:"What do mean, I've CLEPed out of all those reqs like Biology, Chemistry, Physics, etc. I have the ultimate GPA, it's a composite *P*, bahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Advisor: "Bob, a letter which signifies credit transfer isn't a true GPA"

Bob: "What do mean?! Those are College Level Examination Program scores, I've certainly whipped some undergrad biology ass, bahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Advisor:"Look Bob, you'll have to take a few additional science classes and present a letter mark"

Bob: "Well, I'll just CLEP out of those as well, bahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Advisor: "You know that that isn't helping your candidacy?"

Bob: "BULLSHIT! Those are College Level Examination Program scores, admissions officers can suck my dick if they don't like it, bahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

And there you have it, our resident genius and his brilliant ways of dealing with academic obstacles.

Hey Dan, can you do me a favor? Since I'd blocked/ignored Bob, I can't really post these slams against him, w/o him being able to read 'em, fully logged in.

Can you create a thread and more or less, copy/paste these, so that Bob knows that he's a worthless chump/troll and can basically go fuck himself? Thanks in advance.

Rin says

Here's one more of Bob, for the road ...

Bob goes to see the premed advisor/committee chair of his university.

Advisor: "Bob, you need to submit an overall Science GPA for medical school admissions' committees."

Bob:"What do mean, I've CLEPed out of all those reqs like Biology, Chemistry, Physics, etc. I have the ultimate GPA, it's a composite *P*, bahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Advisor: "Bob, a letter which signifies credit transfer isn't a true GPA"

Bob: "What do mean?! Those are College Level Examination Program scores, I've certainly whipped some undergrad biology ass, bahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Advisor:"Look Bob, you'll have to take a few additional science classes and present a letter mark"

Bob: "Well, I'll just CLEP out of those as well, bahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Advisor: "You know that that isn't helping your candidacy?"

Bob: "BULLSHIT! Those are College Level Examination Program scores, admissions officers can suck my dick if they don't like it, bahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

And there you have it, our resident genius and his brilliant ways of dealing with academic obstacles.

For MMR, Thunderlips, and others, not named Bob ...

Over the weekend, I had a chance to talk to my South African/American acquaintance about the whole UoL thing and whether or not, the UoL/LSE long distance affiliation or on-campus LSE thing only was the be-all in careers in finance or management consulting.

In a nutshell, here's the answer ... sure, if one wants to get recruited immediately and has no time to explore anything else, the on-campus LSE *admissions* plus City of London placement upon its completion is ideal.

With that stated, if one uses one's advantages, all roads could in fact, lead to Rome.

Here's an example ... let's say, a person wasn't on-campus LSE bound; ok, let's say he/she was talented at languages with a bit of interest in history. Well, that person could get accepted to the on-campus School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) at Univ of London, and perhaps get a BA in east Asian/Chinese studies. Let's call this person Sara.

Now, our resident dickweed Bob will immediately say ... 'aha, that's not a LSE person but some bozo SOAS at Univ of London and thus, my degree at West Wichita State University in computer information systems and applied math is superior to that loser, bahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!.'

But then, here's where Bob fails ... for one, the London School of Economics (LSE) has no east Asian focus depts, everyone knows this. And thus, Sara is not trying to cast herself as some prodigy in traditional economics and applied math. Instead, after her preliminary BA work, she also does a post-baccalaureate study in economics, using LSE's material ... in Britain, this is called at Diploma in Economics, in the US, we'd just call it a certificate.

Now, here's Sara's resume, in contrast to let's say Rich ...

------

Sara:

Experience:

Research Analyst, Beta-Zetta Capital Group
Analyzed deal book dynamics for field operations in Asian markets.

Education:

Certificate in Economics, University of London, Lead College: LSE
BA, East Asian/Chinese Studies, University of London, School of Oriental and African Studies, First Class Honours

-----

Notice that next to any West Wichita State alumni, Sara's profile looks far more global and happening, despite the fact that the LSE portion is just some certificate saying that she's taken LSE qualified exams. You see, even the lesser dept/school at the Univ of London has a greater global cachet than some podunk stateside college with a good STEM program.

Yes, Sara's in recruiting circles at financial a/o management consulting firms whereas our resident genius Bob is fuming that ppl aren't kowtowing to either his West Wichita State GPA or number of CLEP credits. In other words, Bob is a jealous and pathetic loser.

Rin says

Notice the difference, Rich is proud of the fact that he's some data/detail expert and at the same time, proudly displays his magnet HS, thinking that it overshadows his college namesake

Talking about magnet high schools is kind of lame. Shows a lack of perspective about the world. Maybe a middle-class naivete, if you will.

MMR says

Talking about magnet high schools is kind of lame. Shows a lack of perspective about the world. Maybe a middle-class naivete, if you will.

If it weren't so common, I wouldn't have mentioned it. There are also the middle class scholarship types to Philips Academy, who end up at regular private colleges like a Brandeis or a Lehigh, and then, talk about their prestigious HSs into their early 30s. And yes, these ppl have completely ordinary careers. I know a number of them.

Rin says

Brandeis or a Lehigh

Overpriced garbage schools.......I look down upon people who spend money on that garbage. Where the hell is a Brandeis or Lehigh degree going to get you that you couldn't get with less money? Maybe somewhere if you are Jewish, but as a non-Jew, not happening, even if you choose to join ZBT or AEPi and lick ass.

I know one Indian guy from Sharon MA who went there for Undergrad and I believe Fordham Law....after many years as an associate he made partner somewhere.

The 4 people I personally know from Phillips academy had well off to rich parents. One guy recently bought Tory Burch (the designer) old home in the hamptons. His father is a cardiologist in Colts Neck, NJ

The other guy is a Cardiologist in the boston area and another is a neurologist in Greensboro NC ; the brother of the latter guy works for google.

I'm not sure if any of those guys needed to put phillips academy on their CV.

My cousin is marrying a Thayer in April. As in the great great great grandnephew of Sylvanus thayer, of west point fame, as well as the thayer academy and the thayer school of engineering at Dartmouth. His father went to deerfield academy in Deerfield MA and was a C student who ended up at Bucknell. I suspect he talks about his Deerfield days. In fact, my cousin was already thinking about sending her future kids to Deerfield to increase their chances at the Ivy League.

MMR says

Overpriced garbage schools.......I look down upon people who spend money on that garbage. Where the hell is a Brandeis or Lehigh degree going to get you that you couldn't get with less money?

MMR says

His father went to deerfield academy in Deerfield MA and was a C student who ended up at Bucknell. I suspect he talks about his Deerfield days.

Well MMR, I think you're beginning to understand my line of thinking. For one, much of high school, even if it's Philips/Exeter/Deerfield/Milton/etc, for the regular middle classer, is a waste of time, if it doesn't result in direct Ivy League placement. And then, as you and I know, when your name isn't Gore/Kerry/Bush/Clinton/Kennedy, those chances decline perspicaciously, with each notch of one's class ranking.

Thus, I believe that my Univ of London distance program, (sorry, Univ of London International Programme, to make Bob happy) for a homeschooler w/ a few community college credits (plus CLEPs, again to make Bob happy), is the best way for the ordinary Joe, to cast himself into a near elite identity.

Rin says

Thus, I believe that my Univ of London distance program, (sorry, Univ of London International Programme, to make Bob happy) for a homeschooler w/ a few community college credits (plus CLEPs, again to make Bob happy), is the best way for the ordinary Joe, to cast himself into a near elite identity.

BTW, my South African/American acquaintance, a.k.a. "Eddie", works for a client today as a VP.

Not a big deal really, as in finance, VP simply means ... handling a major customer/account.

Rin says

BTW, my South African/American acquaintance, a.k.a. "Eddie", works for a client today as a VP.

BTW, Eddie isn't alone. There's another guy down in Jo'burg, doing the same distance program today, while interning at a financial services company there. Apparently, ppl in these parts do know how to network.

Rin says

Also, if you do attend medical school but later, want to leave medicine for management consulting, a London affiliation could still help with that career change.

I'm sure that a lot of doctors who get frustrated with their declining pay for work (insurance slaves, anyway) would be happy to have such an option in their back pocket.

Rin says

(plus CLEPs, again to make Bob happy)

CLEPing for credit is a stupid idea which is penny wise and pound foolish. It's better to take AP courses, take the exam, get a 4 or 5 then repeat the same class as an undergrad if Med school is the focus.

Rin says

Well MMR, I think you're beginning to understand my line of thinking

I understand it, but I'm intrigued with ways to get the most time out of the day; lifehacking. i would prefer to teach my children how to prepare for college years before college but to also excel in sports. A hybrid of the principles of homeschooling coupled with some college and/or the opportunity to go to a school that doesn't require one to be on campus all day along with some college.

Rin says

Philips/Exeter/Deerfield/Milton/etc, for the regular middle classer, is a waste of time, if it doesn't result in direct Ivy League placement.

I'd consider Phillips only if my kid was really good at ice hockey or lacrosse and had a crazy passion for it coupled with good grades.

You're a spring of innovative thinking. Too bad some people are unable to recognize it. I've learned a lot from the experience of discussing this topic

MMR says

CLEPing for credit is a stupid idea which is penny wise and pound foolish. It's better to take AP courses, take the exam, get a 4 or 5 then repeat the same class as an undergrad if Med school is the focus.

Yes, why do you think I'd been slamming Bob as some stupid asshole.

He's one of these state u types who's so lame, outside of the fact that he'd completed a bunch of CLEP exams, that he can't figure out that it's easier for a regular Joe/Jane to get a 4.0 in General Bio/Chem/Physics than let's say Immunology/Thermodynamics/Signals & Systems, if they CLEPed out of those starting courses. The fact that this went over his head that quickly, just showed me how useless he was, in giving advice to either you or Thunderlips.

MMR says

You're a spring of innovative thinking. Too bad some people are unable to recognize it. I've learned a lot from the experience of discussing this topic

No, it's that ppl like Bob are fuming because no matter what, he can't spin his so-called honors work at some West Wichita State (w/ CLEPs out of the introductory courses), into something prestigious. He'll always be showing up and debating Columbia, Wharton, and Harvard grads, trying to prove to them that he's smart, not realizing that they're laughing at him behind his back.

In reality, had he simply done the UoL distance program and gotten his first class honours in the LSE sponsored coursework, he'd already have that, without needing to make a continuous ass of himself, whenever he meets an elite school alumni. But ppl like him never learn.

State Uers like him are a lot like this ... 'Did I tell you that I'd gotten a 97% average in Advanced Control Theory? Did I tell you that that section was considered harder than the one taught, even at MIT?'

And yes, repeat that dialogue 20x and you get your typical insecure State User who'd some tough STEM honors majors.