patrick.net

Socialist utopias are very expensive to operate.

turtledove says

Socialist utopias are very expensive to operate.

indeed. he must be senile as fuck.

Would it be any better under Hillary?

To be fair, you should at least acknowledge that most people won't notice a difference in their real wages as it's simply shifting cost from employer/employee paid health care to a tax. Taxes go up, expenses go down.

That's better...

tatupu70 says

Taxes go up, expenses choices go down.

SoftShell says

That's better...

tatupu70 says

Taxes go up, expenses choices go down.

lol--I think the vast majority of people have 1 choice. Whatever their employer offers.

The Vox article is highly speculative, so I wouldn't consider its figures to be accurate. Furthermore, the president does not set tax rates. Congress does. There is no way that such tax rates would be passed even if Bernie wanted them, which I doubt is accurate.

Bernie is more likely to want to slash warfare spending, and reducing warfare spending to levels that the other major nations are spending would supply us with $800 billion/yr without raising any taxes. I doubt that would happen, but it shows how much money we'd have if we didn't waste it.

Going over Sander's plan...

1. Rebuild America Act
$1 trillion for five years to pay for new and repaired infrastructure of automobile roads and railroads. That's only $200 million per year, easily paid for by less warfare spending. My only problem with this act is that it only addresses roadways and America needs new infrastructure in various areas including the electric grid, our water systems, the Internet, and clean power generation facilities like solar and hydroelectric.

2. College for All
I have no problem with socializing the cost of college provide that a few conditions are met.
- Either create a single national virtual university or place tuition limits on colleges.
- All colleges must be accredited and meet standards.
- There can be no religious colleges that get this funding and no religion classes.

If a national virtual university is created, it's easy to keep costs down to a thousand dollars per student per degree. That kind of cost can easily be socialized.

3. Expand and Extend Social Security
Sen. Sanders has proposed expanding Social Security and extending the solvency of this program until 2065. Paid for by lifting the cap on taxable income above $250,000 so that the wealthy pay the same percentage of their income into Social Security as working people.

A reasonable plan and financially sound.

4. Youth Jobs Program

Paid for by ending the carried interest loophole that allows billionaire hedge fund managers to pay a lower tax rate than nurses and truck drivers.

The plan funding is financially sound, socially just, and reasonable. I don't know if the plan will reduce crime, but it if does, then it's likely society will save more money than it spends because jailing people is damn expensive. The savings will be reaped by state and local governments mostly because most jails and prisons are state or local.

5. Paid Family and Medical Leave

This is one issue that I disagree with Sanders on. People not having children should not subsidize those who do. The correct solution is to allow everyone to have the same pay, including paid time off, for the same productivity. I.e. equal pay for equal work. If people choose to have a child, they should get time off to care for that child during the few months, but they should not get a bonus worth thousands of dollars that their coworkers don't get. People should save up money before reproducing.

Giving extra money to people, not for being productive at work, but for having children is mutually exclusive with the principle of equal pay for equal work. They are in direct opposition.

I would vote against this plan.

6. Protect Pensions

Seems reasonable. Private companies were basically allowed to commit financial fraud and violate their contracts with former employees under the Multiemployer Pension Reform Act of 2014. It would be nice if the specific rich cats who screwed over their employees were made to pay for the pensions out of their own wealth, but targeting the uber-rich in general is close enough as most of them made their fortunes screwing over the middle class.

7. Renewable Energy and Clean Jobs Transition

Good plan. Good funding. We should not be giving subsidies and tax breaks to fossil fuels and polluters.

8. Medicare for all

If done right, this would be the largest policy success in our time. However, for it to be done right, there must be caps on the profits of hospitals, there must be no private insurance companies, and wasteful overhead must be eliminated with a single payer system.

These are all doable things, but I doubt Sanders will be able to get any of these things through Congress unless the Democrats gain a supermajority in both houses excluding so-called "moderate" Democrats who vote against nationalize health care systems.

1. Rebuild America Act

Agree except for airport expansion. Air travel is a massive waste of energy. Spend the money to electrify railroads instead.

2. College for All

If you qualify based on objective tests. College is NOT for all.

3. Expand and Extend Social Security

Yup

4. Youth Jobs Program

Yes

5. Paid Family and Medical Leave

Meh

6. Protect Pensions

Yes

7. Renewable Energy and Clean Jobs Transition

The devil is in the details. No Tesla nonsense, no hydrogen nonsense. But any halfway clean job is less wasteful than military spending. And we need nuclear power plants, disagree with Bernie on that one.

8. Medicare for all

YES!!!!!

Ironman says

Dan8267 says

These are all doable things, but I doubt Sanders will be able to get any of these things through

Yet idiots like you, who think they're so intelligent, will still vote for him, knowing that he has a snowball's chance in hell of accomplishing anything on his bullshit list.

Actually the idiot is you who continue to vote for people that block Sanders reforms.

Dan8267 says

This is one issue that I disagree with Sanders on. People not having children should not subsidize those who do

Slippery slope there. People who don't go to college or whose kids don't go to college subsidizing those who do. The healthy subsidizing those who are sick, etc.

How will Bernie ensure that only citizens have access to these programs?

Unelectable. Most people are already drowning in taxes. Have maybe 10% (up to 100K), 25% and 40% from (1MM on) flat tax brackets. everybody deserves to take home the majority of the money they earn from their skills. Plus, institute an optional emergency tax/fee percentage on the very wealthy in times of budget crisis limited to ONE tax year, which automatically expires and cannot be invoked again for TWO years and codify this in the law. Get rid of ALL deductions.

Dan8267 says

Furthermore, the president does not set tax rates. Congress does.

No one said that the president sets the tax rates. However, when a candidate makes campaign promises about delivering certain programs and then delivers on those programs, there are only so many options to bring those programs to fruition:

1) Raise individual & corporate taxes
2) Kick the can down the road so that future generations can pay the taxes and hope that you are dead long before they figure it out
3) Expand the economic pie so that there is a larger taxable base (e.g., game changing invention)

The digestive system might be responsible for making the poop, but everyone still understands that eating food makes poop a foregone conclusion.

turtledove says

Socialist utopias are very expensive to operate.

They require whole state ran ecconomies. Which in its self kills any ecconomic prosperity.
You know all I'm asking for is just state ran healthcare. Let the free markets make my widgets.

justme says

2. College for All

If you qualify based on objective tests. College is NOT for all.

That's some elitist bullshit. As most degrees don't require all of the Social engineering classes, nor do they require advanced math or other High school rehash classes that people that people must take all over again. Just to make sure they filter out the Clowns who's parents didn't buy into the Good School districts, and and hit all of the marks on the Dog Whistle questions.

You should only have an aptitude for the field you're trying to get into. That's with a free market school or Bernie Sanders USSR Utopian State ran school.
Getting rid of the Department of Education, will be the best thing that ever happened to education in this country.
Let people get the school systems they deserve by the School Superintendent they elect. They'll smarten up eventually and find a Trump for that.

If those were the real tax rates, I'd expect Bernie to show up and wipe my ass for me when I take a dump.

Ironman says

Yet idiots like you, who think they're so intelligent, will still vote for him, knowing that he has a snowball's chance in hell of accomplishing anything on his bullshit list.

You are an idiot. Sanders will greatly improve the country even without accomplishing everything he wants. And unlike any of the ass clowns in the Republican party, Sanders at least has good intentions.

The fact that you fear him is a great indicator that he's exactly what the country needs.

Go back to fucking your sister and wife. She's bored.

Wow, I really must have made you made, so pitiful. You have become obsessed. You are so easily manipulated.

Ironman says

Says the guy who can't balance his personal checkbook.

Just curious--why are you obsessed with my checkbook? Unlike your hero Trump--I've never declared bankruptcy.

Ironman says

If all of Sanders reforms and plan was to be implemented, this country would look like Hiroshima after the bomb. It's a good thing Sanders has clueless economic idiots like you supporting his delusional plans.

Actually the country would look like it did in the 1950s. When the middle class thrived. When households were able to live comfortably on one income. When real wages were rising for everyone-not just the 1%.

Denmark- #1 Place to do business.

And unlike CuckSweden (which btw has 3% unemployment among native Swedes thanks to their Unemployment System which demands companies take qualified unemployed applicants or face a fine), Denmark eliminated cash benefits for refugees and does a dental exam to make sure the "16 year olds" are really not 23 year olds, thereby getting faster refugee status. Now most " refugees" skip Denmark.

I agree with taxing the super-rich much more, but I whole-heartedly disagree with increasing taxes on people making 6 figures...THAT IS NOT RICH. Increase taxes a lot on the rich, but lower the corporate tax rate so that companies want to be here. Problem solved assuming we cut unnecessary spending. Socialist countries don't seem to invent much because so much capital is tied up in gov't programs, so they just mooch off of the innovations of other countries like the U.S.

Ironman says

You mean the one your wife handles due to your lack of financial skills?

First--who writes checks anymore? Second--I'm obviously skilled enough to be wildly more successful than you.. Third--do you think that being able to add and subtract is a good indicator of ones financial skill?

Ironman says

Trump hasn't either, but we wouldn't let FACTS get in the way of another one of your lies.

Oh, yes, you're right.. Trump used his Daddy's money to hire the best accountants and lawyers so he could insulate himself from all his business failures. He only screwed all his investors--Trump always came out fine. That's the guy you want to be President--one that will screw over the people that support him when the going gets tough.

Ironman says

Really?? "Thrived"??

Did we have socialized healthcare, college for all and taxes at those levels in the 1950's?

Taxes were closer to those levels than current levels--that's for damn sure.

justme says

Air travel is a massive waste of energy. Spend the money to electrify railroads instead.

agreed. also note that trains generally go into the center of town, while airports are on the periphery. that alone would make trains faster than relatively short flights for a majority of people, but amtrack is very effective at curing most people of the desire to go by train. perhaps not by accident.

tatupu70 says

. Third--do you think that being able to add and subtract is a good indicator of ones financial skill?

How in the world would CIC know that, he's proved he can't add or subtract many, many times.

but amtrack is very effective at curing most people of the desire to go by train. perhaps not by accident.

What a load of crap. I commuted from albany to nyc via amtrack 2-3 days a week for 4 years with almost no problems. The few problems I had were mostly outside of amtracks control, trees down on tracks, building fire close to tracks, that kind of thing. . I've used them since then just fine. The high speed lines, which I used several times in the last year, are amazing.

bob2356 says

I commuted from albany to nyc via amtrack 2-3 days a week for 4 years with almost no problems. The few problems I had were mostly outside of amtracks control, trees down on tracks, building fire close to tracks, that kind of thing. . I've used them since then just fine. The high speed lines, which I used several times in the last year, are amazing.

What a load of crap.

There. I fixed it for you.

How much would my taxes decrease if I didn't have to support teat sucking Rep/Con/Teas?

1. Universities that accept one dollar of Federal Money:
* Must abide by the first amendment
* Disband any courts beyond those that handle plagarism, cheating, or academic/student misconduct (ie dorm room arguments, petty agendas between scholars). Must refer any crime that could be a felony to the proper Law Enforcement Officer or Prosecutor (mandatory reporting).
* Cannot have more than 1 individual per 200 students making over $99,999 per year, indexed to inflation. Including and especially Administrators. There is no need for an institution with 1000 students to need more than 5 six figure plus individuals. The trade off in academia for pay is security.
* The highest paid person must be either the President or an Academic, not the Coach and not any other Administrator.

thunderlips11 says

The highest paid person must be either the President

The salaries and perks for that position have gone a bit crazy. Like $700k/year and a house to live in! Seriously, they need to rethink a lot of university salaries.

turtledove says

The salaries and perks for that position have gone a bit crazy. Like $700k/year and a house to live in! Seriously, they need to rethink a lot of university salaries.

And they stay for like a couple of years... then move on into an even higher position somewhere across the country!

30-40 years ago, being a Dean or President was a reward to a long serving well loved Professor or Alumni who had been supporting or serving the college/uni for decades. Then, it became a den of Professionals who hop from one school to another, and they have next to no Teaching or Research experience. They are "Professional Managers" in the worst sense.

It's not just President, but they have Vice Assistant Deans of Whatever, who all make over 100k. Plus they each have an army of assistants, some of whom also make north of $100k. It's crazy!

thunderlips11 says

Cannot have more than 1 individual per 200 students making over $99,999 per year, indexed to inflation. Including and especially Administrators. There is no need for an institution with 1000 students to need more than 5 six figure plus individuals. The trade off in academia for pay is security.

This is too severe. Berkeley and Stanford would become ghost towns if they could not pay an engineering professor at least 200k/year. Bureaucrats should be limited to 100k, not the academics.

Tenpoundbass says

That's some elitist bullshit. As most degrees don't require all of the Social engineering classes, nor do they require advanced math or other High school rehash classes that people that people must take all over again. Just to make sure they filter out the Clowns who's parents didn't buy into the Good School districts, and and hit all of the marks on the Dog Whistle questions.

You should only have an aptitude for the field you're trying to get into. That's with a free market school or Bernie Sanders USSR Utopian State ran school.

Getting rid of the Department of Education, will be the best thing that ever happened to education in this country.

Let people get the school systems they deserve by the School Superintendent they elect. They'll smarten up eventually and find a Trump for that.

I can't parse the above stream of unconsciousness. But I am almost certain I agree with very little of whatever it is supposed to mean.

Ironman says

You want to thrive and live on one income, like they did in the 1950's, then you need to move to a average sized house during that time, which was between 900 sq. ft - 1100 sq.ft. You ready to do that?

Also, most families only had one car, and it wasn't a SUV. You willing to sell one of your cars?

So, to make a comparison to 1950's just shows, once again, how clueless you are to reality.

Actually, not so. There have been huge productivity increases over the last 50 years. So, 1 income households should be able live in larger homes with 2 cars.

Ironman says

Delusional again, Trump has provided jobs for over 22,000 people in all his different organizations. How many jobs has Bernie provided in all his businesses?

Let's see. He created jobs, then destroyed them. Created them again, then destroyed them. Lather, rinse, repeat.

tatupu70 says

Actually, not so. There have been huge productivity increases over the last 50 years. So, 1 income households should be able live in larger homes with 2 cars.

And the reason they don't is the FED-created constant and incessant inflation and devaluation of money. You are getting somewhere..

tatupu70 says

Let's see. He created jobs, then destroyed them. Created them again, then destroyed them. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Still he paid and is still paying plenty of salaries every year for many people so they can have a job and make a living - Sanders the career politician, not so much. He just lives off of tax money.

mell says

tatupu70 says

Actually, not so. There have been huge productivity increases over the last 50 years. So, 1 income households should be able live in larger homes with 2 cars.

And the reason they don't is the FED-created constant and incessant inflation and devaluation of money. You are getting somewhere..

I know you like to attribute everything bad to the Federal Reserve, but we've been over this a million times. It's NOT the Fed. I've been over the reasons for inequality and showed you why it's Republican policies that have caused this mess.

Ironman says

He has 100's of business ventures and decided to make a good business decision and close 4 casinos that were doing badly in liberal controlled Atlantic City using current legal methods. That's, at minimum, of a 96% success rate.

Yes--that was after he declared bankruptcy multiple times.

Ironman says

You avoided answering my questions again. Why?

Because I decide which questions of your are worth answering, and this one is basically rhetorical. So, being a dumb question, like most of your questions, I just left it be.

Unlike you, I don't worship "job creators" that use their Daddy's money to build hotels. And screw over their investors by declaring bankruptcy repeatedly. Nothing wrong with it--just not particularly admirable from my point of view.

Dan8267 says

Going over Sander's plan...

9. Work? Create wealth?

Tenpoundbass says

Getting rid of the Department of Education, will be the best thing that ever happened to education in this country.

Which, like the Department of Energy, never produced a barrel of oil or MCF of gas, never "educated" one person.

Ironman says

You're safe there too, if Bernie doesn't start/own any businesses, and instead, lives off of the public tit, there's no money he needs to borrow to grow his non-existent businesses and create non-existent jobs. Sounds like just the guy I want running the country with all that experience.

I thought you were for a smaller government--so you don't want a job creator as President then, right? That would just be more people living off of the public tit, as you so eloquently put it.