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Heraclitusstudent says

A lot of people assume Bernie would fare worse in a general election because he's farther left.

New Poll: Bernie has the edge in most matchups against Republicans

WASHINGTON — Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders fares a bit better than rival Hillary Clinton in head-to-head matchups against Republican presidential contenders, a USA TODAY/Suffolk University Poll finds, and he has pulled within 10 percentage points of her for the Democratic nomination.

The nationwide survey, taken Thursday through Monday, underscores how formidable an opponent the 74-year-old democratic socialist has become against one of the Democratic Party's most established figures.

Clinton — a former first lady, two-term New York senator and secretary of State — is backed by 50% of likely Democratic primary and caucus voters, down 6 points from December. Over that time, Sanders' standing has surged 11 points, to 40%.

While Clinton argues that she would be more electable in November, Sanders shows somewhat more strength against four possible Republican opponents, although almost all of the matchups fall within the poll's margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

thunderlips11 says

The sad thing is that according to most polls Bernie is as good, or the better, candidate in most of the matchups against Republicans than Hillary, but the Media pretends he's a long shot.

I guess if you want to assume that the eventual republican nominee will be unacceptable to huge swaths of the middle of the electorate (say Trump for example), then you may be right.

But if and when the republicans settle on someone moderate, that would get the votes of the evangelicals, the tea baggers, the business corporate conservatives, the red necks, the Foxbots, all the Fort Wayne's of the world that think Reagan was the greatest President ever, etc, it is a long shot that Bernie can win. At least that's what common sense would suggest.

Hell, they get millions of idiots in fly over country hating politicians for being "socialists" that are in reality right of center moderates. Whereas Bernie actually describes himself as a socialist. The fact that he could possibly win New York or California is irrelevant.

thunderlips11 says

New Poll: Bernie has the edge in most matchups against Republicans

I don't know whether it's a bs poll, or whether it has to do with the fact that the republicans don't have anyone that everyone is getting behind (YET). But I don't believe it.

Keep in mind, that there are some very powerful interests that would very much like to see Bernie as the democrat candidate, because of the fact that he can't win. So there is a lot of ridiculous propaganda flying around.

marcus says

But if and when the republicans settle on someone moderate, that would get the votes of the evangelicals, the tea baggers, the business corporate conservatives, the red necks, the Foxbots, all the Fort Wayne's of the world that think Reagan was the greatest President ever, etc, it is a long shot that Bernie can win. At least that's what common sense would suggest.

Hasn't this election proved to you that "common sense" is wrong yet? I think you have to disregard conventional wisdom on this one.

There is a reason Clinton is doing so poorly and it won't change in the general election.

I'm hugely impressed by Bernie's success so far. I also agree with tat that there is a reason Clinton is doing so poorly. There is so much Hillary hate out there, and there are the scandals and distrust. It's like she's dragging a giant bag of shit with her, and we're all wondering if the bag is going to rip open and cause a big mess.

It is also looking more and more like the Donald will be the Repugnican at large. It could be a terribly interesting election. And "conventional wisdom" is dead at this point.

All of that said, we are still in the primaries. I'm wondering if people will break for a more traditional candidate in the general election when things start to feel a little more permanent.

marcus says

I guess if you want to assume that the eventual republican nominee will be unacceptable to huge swaths of the middle of the electorate (say Trump for example), then you may be right.

But if and when the republicans settle on someone moderate, that would get the votes of the evangelicals, the tea baggers, the business corporate conservatives, the red necks, the Foxbots, all the Fort Wayne's of the world that think Reagan was the greatest President ever, etc, it is a long shot that Bernie can win.

Wake up: If republicans settle on someone moderate then Hillary is even more fucked than Bernie regardless.

If you don't believe polls, take the anecdotal evidence: I know several people who normally vote democrat, but would vote Trump any day over Hillary, if Hillary got the nomination.

marcus says

Yes, everyone knows this is the core foundation policy of the democratic party. Well, that and of course the destruction of the family unit, and increasing abortion and homosexuality as much as possible, and of course let's not forget taking away everyone's guns.

Finally Marcus says something I can agree with! Bravo, @Marcus! Glad you finally saw the light!

tatupu70 says

There is a reason Clinton is doing so poorly and it won't change in the general election.

Is she doing poorly ?

She's the establishment democrat right ?

Name me an establishment republican that's doing as well as she is. The money has her at approximately 75% chance of getting the nomination.

The primary season is when the more extreme candidates, that fire up the base are supposed to do well. Then in the election, the question is who can win the most of the independents and moderate middle.

marcus says

Then in the election, the question is who can win the most of the independents and moderate middle.

Who can win the most independents is not Clinton. Just look at NH.

marcus says

Is she doing poorly ?

Out of 2 states she barely won 1 and got wiped in the second. Hardly a good start.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/02/18/fox-news-poll-clinton-feels-bern-trails-sanders-by-three-points-nationally.html#

Bernie Sanders now tops Hillary Clinton in the race for the Democratic nomination.  The latest Fox News national poll finds 47 percent of Democratic primary voters now back the Vermont senator, up from 37 percent in January.  Clinton gets 44 percent, down from 49 percent a month ago.

{The Democratic Party’s Presidential contest isn’t really a contest between ‘idealism’ versus ‘pragmatism,’ such as some propagandists claim. To characterize either candidate as ‘the idealist’ versus ‘the pragmatist’ is false. That characterization of this contest is actually deeply deceptive, because it focuses on vague abstractions, whereas the real issue in the Democratic Party primaries now is totally nitty-gritty, and it concerns two alternative diagnoses of what has been going wrong with America’s economy in recent decades.

In Bernie’s view, American democracy is now in the emergency room; in Hillary’s view, complainers (against anything other than bigots) are like mere hypochondriacs who simply don’t understand the experts who say that things aren’t so bad, and that therefore no “revolution” is needed.

Is America’s basic governmental problem bigotry (i.e., certain cultural and ‘values’ problems), as Hillary says;

or is it instead corruption (i.e., certain economic and governmental problems), as Bernie says?
}
-----------------
I think the answer is clear:
The problem is not that experts are right and no one understands what they are trying to do.
The problem is corruption.

marcus says

Is she doing poorly ?

Yes

marcus says

The primary season is when the more extreme candidates, that fire up the base are supposed to do well. Then in the election, the question is who can win the most of the independents and moderate middle.

Exactly. Look at the NH results. Independents voted for Bernie by a 73-25 margin. So, tell me how Clinton is a better candidate again?

http://www.cbsnews.com/elections/2016/primaries/democrat/new-hampshire/exit/

I see Bernie polling well below Clinton at the moment nationally, but he keeps gaining on her, and if he can compete in each state as the primaries roll through, he may get there. He certainly doesn't have the political baggage the Clinton has, and his personal story is more compelling. But older people and higher income people are less interested in rocking the fuck out of the boat to see what happens. Those people are more likely to be interested in Clinton.

If we break up the big banks tomorrow, there will still be traffic fatalities over the weekend.