patrick.net

She is wrong. Her parents are wrong. The adult guys to fall for this are wrong. If she were my daughter, I'd slap the plaque off her teeth for promoting herself in such a way.

Though I try not to blame victims, some people are just asking for it. Kind of like going down a unlit alley way in the middle of the night in a bad section of town. Clearly you're not asking to be mugged or attacked, but it had to have at least crossed your mind that you just increased the likelihood of it happening the minute you started walking down Cracktown Alley at 2 am. We do have the ability to reduce the risks of attracting bad situations. It's a shame that some people don't realize that.

turtledove says

Clearly you're not asking to be mugged or attacked

No. She's asking to have a wild, consensual, and brief sexual fling. I'm not saying guys should obliged, but it's like selling candy to children, you can't expect them to be disinterested.

Stick to 19 year olds if you must, and you won't wind up in jail.

Huh. I thought you were kidding. Maybe it's genetic.

Dan8267 says

No. She's asking to have a wild, consensual, and brief sexual fling. I'm not saying guys should obliged, but it's like selling candy to children, you can't expect them to be disinterested.

If she's underage and the guys are post majority then they will have to be disinterested. Which brings me back to why is her mother allowing her out of the house with a shirt like that?

About a decade ago, there was a thing where all the teenybopper girls were wearing tight shorts that didn't cover the whole cheek that had big Olde English Font phrases across the entire ass like "Here's an Angel" "Kiss my Ass" "#1 Princess"etc.

Everywhere I went there were all these 12-16 gals wearing what would have passed for panties 30 years ago - often with mothers in tow.

I said to my wife, "Those women will scream when their child is abducted and taken to California by Magic Marty the DJ in his White Van - 'my child, so innocent, never even thinks about such things, would never run away with anyone!"

thunderlips11 says

I said to my wife, "Those women will scream when their child is abducted and taken to California by Magic Marty the DJ in his White Van - 'my child, so innocent, never even thinks about such things, would never run away with anyone!"

Cracktown Alley at 2am. I don't know what's wrong with these mothers. My daughter knows at age 11 that the way you present yourself is a reflection of how you hope to be viewed by others. You cannot present yourself as a whore and then wonder why people think you are a whore. It's like showing up at a job interview in a pair of sweats and wondering why the interviewer didn't take you seriously. How you present yourself to the world DOES matter. These mothers are not doing their children a service by telling them otherwise.

thunderlips11 says

Everywhere I went there were all these 12-16 gals wearing what would have passed for panties 30 years ago - often with mothers in tow.

That's funny. You remind me of my dad. He always used to say "in my day this and in my day that", if you know what I mean. He always said EVERYTHING was getting worse. My oldest sister used to say that things were actually getting better, but that just made him madder. She would have lots of examples of things that were better than in his day, but he wouldn't listen. He would get up and storm out and we would all laugh. Good times.

He died of colon cancer a few years ago, so there's not a happy ending.

Hmmm, I didn't say the girls were wearing these shorts now, eh? They went out of fashion.

Many (not all, maybe not most) Single Mom Heroines that Society Tells Me I Ought to Worship and Subsidize often let their girls dress up in the most ridiculous clothes most grown women wouldn't go to a nightclub in without something over it at least.

The “Greatest“ Generation was a steaming pile of fuckstick-ignorant entitled trash. They succeeded only because they graduated from high school into the greatest economic expansion in history. Ancestor-worshipping stoofeks like Tom Brokaw should go to hell.

A typical American on the street in 1920 would test as mentally retarded today. No, really: IQ's have risen since then: childhood nutrition and mental stimulation was far lower; schools were dull torture chambers of rote learning.

From 1830-1900, half of the women living west of the Mississippi were prostitutes. That includes many of the ancestors of people reading this forum.

Teenagers had awesome sex, and lots of it. There was all the sodomy, pederasty and homosexuality one's heart could desire. Rape and wife-beating abounded.

Golden age my ass.

HydroCabron says

Golden age my ass.

You sound EXACTLY like my dad except the opposite. lol

Damn right!

We need more men like Ronald Reagan and John Wayne: men who talked about the importance of sacrifice and patriotism, for other people; men who believed in the importance of other men dying in combat.

If the Vietnam War had the same desertion rate as WWII, we would have been out of Vietnam faster, because there wouldn't have been enough troops to continue the war.

Fuck the Greatest Generation.

I hate women: all that shopping and crying.

Any woman who has sex with any man but me is a dirty whore.

HydroCabron says

If the Vietnam War had the same desertion rate as WWII

What were the numbers?

1944: 63 soldiers per 1000
1966: 15 soldiers per 1000

Of course, most of the Vietnam soldiers were volunteers (2/3). Only 1/3 of the Greatest Generation who fought in WWII were volunteers.

Probably something to do with the Fed.

One source:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2007/11/military_desertion_rates_and_t.html

Don't be too hard on the Greatest Generation: most were suffering the DT's from chronic alcohol abuse or alcohol poisoning. Some drank methanol. Many died. The Navy had a large pool of experts in distillation of spirits using torpedo components.

But then, most Americans back home didn't understand the war,, and many didn't care about Hitler.

HydroCabron says

Probably something to do with the Fed.

Now you are smelling the coffee. Who started the wars? oh yea, the centralized federal government. You know your hero FDR got us into WW2 and your other hero Wilson got us into WW1 then there is LBJ...

That is interesting though wouldn't of thunk WW2 would be 4x higher than Vietnam.

Can one of you change your color theme? It's too confusing...

HydroCabron says

The “Greatest“ Generation was a steaming pile of fuckstick-ignorant entitled trash

turtledove says

Cracktown Alley at 2am.

FWinston says

You sound EXACTLY like my dad except the opposite. lol

You sound a lot like my cat except with more purring.

Catman! I like it! lol

Dan8267 says

Isn't it wrong to label men as the bad guys while subjecting them to this? There's a bit of a double standard going on.

No. No.

She's a child. She is entitled to be an idiot without being exploited.

I feel sorry for her and her wayward adult parents.

Ceffer says

She's a child.

No, this is a child.

Do you know how to tell the difference between a child and an adolescent? One has a fully functional reproductive system, sexual desires, mating strategies, the ability to manipulate people sexually, the ability to think abstractly, and very advanced social manipulation skills refined by years of social competition. The other has none of these things. To equate the two is completely nonsensical.

Here's a scientific test. Ask people between the age of 5 and 25 the following question. Is it wrong to steal medicine to save a person's life. A child will always answer, yes it's wrong. An adult will always answer that stealing medicine to save a person's life is the right thing to do because it is by far the lesser of the two evils. How do you think adolescents answer this question? They give the adult answer. The adolescent mind is far more like the adult mind than the mind of a child.

Parents have the right to stop two children from having sex with each other. Parents do not have the right to stop two adolescents from having sex with each other. Like it or not, adolescents are sexual beings. They are more sexual than anyone over the age of 30. That's just plain biology, like it or not. If you don't like it, there's only one answer: forced genetic engineering to postpone puberty. Nothing short of that will turn adolescent into sexless creatures.

Adolescents are sexual beings and they have sexual rights which trumps parental rights. An adolescent fully owns his or her body. This is why adolescents have the right to make their own decisions regarding abortion as well. Adolescents also have the right to engage in or refuse to engage in religion regardless of their parent's desires. If your adolescent wants to convert to a religion you don't like, that's tough shit for you. It's his right.

She's a child. You don't exploit children, you protect them.

Dan8267 says

Is it wrong to steal medicine to save a person's life.

Excellent. We have a new test to see when a child gets all of the rights and responsibilities of an adult.Dan8267 says

postpone puberty.

Is it the start or stop of puberty that means 'play ball?'. That girl hasn't finished yet. Needs to go back in the oven.
Dan8267 says

s. They are more sexual than anyone over the age of 30.

They may want sex more, but don't typically have more sex.

YesYNot says

Excellent. We have a new test to see when a child gets all of the rights and responsibilities of an adult.

How many legs does a horse have if we call a tag a leg? Answer: four. Calling a thing by a label does not make that thing into something else.

If you want to argue that a adolescent is no different than a child, then it should be illegal for an adolescent to have sex with another adolescent. It should also be illegal for adolescents to have abortions without the permission of their parents or to refuse an abortion that their parents tell them to have. It should also be illegal to every try an adolescent as an adult including for rape or murder.

You are not being noble by taking away the human rights of adolescents. You are not protecting them. You are enslaving them.

YesYNot says

Is it the start or stop of puberty that means 'play ball?'. That girl hasn't finished yet. Needs to go back in the oven.

Again, your criteria would make it criminal for two adolescents to have sex with each other. This would turn the vast majority of 12-17 year olds into sex offenders, literally over 80% of American girls would be sex offenders.

YesYNot says

They may want sex more, but don't typically have more sex.

Your statement is obviously false.

http://www.teenpregnancystatistics.org/content/how-many-teens-are-on-the-pill.html

According to the stats provided by the Guttmacher Institute, about 79 percent of females use some sort of contraception while about 87 percent of males do.

The number of teen girls using the pill to prevent an unplanned pregnancy seems to be rising. More health clinics like Planned Parenthood are making it easier for teens to be able to get on the birth control pill without having to have parental permission. Just about every state in the United States does not require for teens to have to have parental consent, except Utah and Texas to get birth control if state funds are being used to pay for the contraception. Other types of birth control like condoms are readily available over the counter and do not require any kind of parental permission. Condoms can even be purchased online and do not require any kind of a prescription unlike birth control.

Many teens that might be skeptical about going to the family doctor to get on the pill because they are worried their parents will find out, do have other options when it comes to getting their female exam and a prescription for birth control. Many women's centers or health care clinics like Planned Parenthood allow teens to get access to their exam and birth control without an issue.

You may really want to believe your teenage daughter isn't sexually active, but she is. You may have a mental block that causes you to accept any irrational view that allows you to indulge the fantasy that your daughter isn't orgasming with some pubescent, selfish male who is just using her as a sex object, but that doesn't change reality. You are living in a fantasy if you think your daughter hasn't had intercourse and a host of other sexual activities, including giving blow jobs and receiving cunnilingus, before her 18th birthday.

www.Cz9OgW4JAJ8

Damn, even a movie about alien robots knows that adolescent girls mating with older men is common enough to affect the law.

Dan8267 says

You may really want to believe your teenage daughter isn't sexually active, but she is.

Being on the pill doesn't tell us how much sex is happening.Dan8267 says

If you want to argue that a adolescent is no different than a child, then it should be illegal for an adolescent to have sex with another adolescent.

You know we disagree on this, so any conclusions predicated on this assumption don't apply.

I agree that an adolescent should be legally allowed to have abortions or choose religion. But from a practical perspective, it's tough when the parents are paying for living expenses and still providing guidance in life. From a legal perspective, abortions are going to follow the same consent laws as all surgeries. Abortion pills might be different.

YesYNot says

Being on the pill doesn't tell us how much sex is happening

No. What it does tell us is that the vast majority of teens are sexually active.

And the sheer horniness of teens tells us they are fucking like crazy. Are you so old you don't remember what adolescents was like? It was the time you were most interest in sex and had the highest sexual drive.

Just look at the enormous efforts teens go through in order to advertise their sexual attractiveness. Zuckerfuck has made billions off of Facebook by exploiting teen sexual competition. The entire social media revolution has been driven by teens competing for attention all for sex. So yes, it's obvious that teenagers are very much sexual creatures with strong sexual impulses that they act readily on.

YesYNot says

I agree that an adolescent should be legally allowed to have abortions or choose religion.

A decision regarding having an abortion requires far more maturity and consideration than a decision to have sex in the age of contraceptives. It is entirely ridiculous to state that a teen is mentally capable of deciding whether or not to have an abortion but is mentally incapable of deciding whether or not to have sex. It's a direct and irrefutable contradiction.

Again, I'm not arguing that teens should have sex. I'm arguing that teens have the human right to decide whether or not they engage in any kind of consensual sexual relationships and with whom. I look at this issue the exact same way as I look at drug usage. It is wrong for the state to be allowed to use violence and the threat of violence to force drug use decisions or sexual decisions upon people. Every person owns his or her own life.

Ultimately, freedom means that people can and will choose to live their lives in ways that you do not want them to. Unless they are harming others, they should be allowed to do so and should not have to justify any of their decisions to you or me or anyone else. Violent coercion to suppress individual liberty should be the rare exception to the rule and only when there is a damn good, objective justification for it.

Dan8267 says

It was the time you were most interest in sex and had the highest sexual drive.

That's what I said. For me, it's easier to get sex now then when I was however old that girl is. What do you think, 14? Then again, I'm an old guy who doesn't patrol high schools for sex, so I don't know how much your typical adolescent is getting. By the looks of your virginity chart, not much. You've stated that 15 yr olds should be fair game, and you've linked the good to go age to puberty in some way. Is menarche the point at which a girl is good to go, or is it something else?

Dan8267 says

A decision regarding having an abortion requires far more maturity and consideration than a decision to have sex in the age of contraceptives. It is entirely ridiculous to state that a teen is mentally capable of deciding whether or not to have an abortion but is mentally incapable of deciding whether or not to have sex. It's a direct and irrefutable contradiction

If a girl gets pregnant, she can't postpone the decision. She has to decide either to an abortion or have a baby. The alternative to having sex is not having a baby. These are much different situations. It's actually very similar to the example you gave regarding stealing being OK in order to save a life. If not having sex resulted in a girl having a baby and having sex prevented it, I'd say she should be able to make up her own mind.

In any case, I've already said that the state shouldn't legislate teens having sex, b/c it's impractical and there is no clear perpetrator and victim. I also favor sex education and free contraception. That doesn't mean I want to encourage adolescents to have sex as soon as they get the urge.

Sex with pubescents is Hebephilia, not Pedophilia. Pedophilia is pre-pubescent children.

I feel there is a massive difference between a grown adult having sexual relations with a 14 year old vs. a 9 year old.

The first should be a fine and maybe a course on adolescent psychology or something. The latter should carry a prison sentence and/or involuntary chemical castration

YesYNot says

You've stated that 15 yr olds should be fair game

Your words, not mine. I stated that normal, biological behavior between consenting people should not be criminalized and violently suppressed. I've also stated that sex between two adolescents is not criminal so it makes no sense that sex between an adolescent and a legal adult is criminalized. If an adolescent is mentally mature enough to have sex with another adolescent, then he or she is also mentally mature enough to make the same decision with a legal adult. If anything, it's far worse for your teenage daughter to have sex with a teenage boy than an adult. Teenage boys are the most perverted beings on the planet. Also, what constitutes an adult under law has and still does vary greatly.

The very phrasing you use "fair game" presumes a gross falsehood, that sexual relationships are zero sum games and that any female having consensual sex is being used. This is a gross and wrong idea.

YesYNot says

Is menarche the point at which a girl is good to go, or is it something else?

Any litmus test will be arbitrary, but the law should not prohibit unless there is clear objective reason to do so. Make no mistake, I'm not arguing that teenagers should have sex. I'm arguing that the law should not prohibit consensual sex. There's a big difference. It is worse for the law to punish non-wrong-doing than to not punish wrong-doing. The law is inherently the use of violence to coerce behavior. Any ambiguity in whether or not violence is appropriate should result in a decision not to use violence.

YesYNot says

If a girl gets pregnant, she can't postpone the decision. She has to decide either to an abortion or have a baby. The alternative to having sex is not having a baby. These are much different situations.

So whether or not a right exists, in your opinion, is determined by deadlines? That's a terrible basis for deciding rights.

An adolescent or adult female has the right to choose whether or not to have an abortion because reproductive rights are inherently human rights and she owns her life and her body. It would be an abomination to argue that the state could prohibit men or women from reproducing at all simply because there is no urgency. And if a female has the right to choose to reproduce, which teenage girls absolutely do, then they have the right to choose to have sex. You may not approve of their decisions, but it is there decisions, not yours. If an adolescent girl is determined to become a mother, no just law would prohibit her from doing so. And no just law would prohibit her from picking the father.

YesYNot says

That doesn't mean I want to encourage adolescents to have sex as soon as they get the urge.

Nor do I. In no post have I stated that I take the position that adolescents should be having sex. I've taken the position that the law should not prevent consensual relationships between sexually mature, i.e. reproductive capable, persons because such decisions are human rights. I do not support the KKK, but I would support their right to free speech. I would protest to allow the KKK to march down my street, and then when they did, I would counter-protest their organization by holding up large photographs of lynchings. This is not a contradiction of philosophy.

Supporting freedom of choice is not supporting specific decisions. And the bottom line is that anti-sex laws are thinly veiled attempts to prosecute mostly young men from normal, healthy, and typical biological behavior. Such laws are very selectively enforced, violate basic human rights, do nothing to prevent teen pregnancy or STD transmissions, and are often motivated by hypocritical reasons. Demonizing males who want young, fertile mates is simply a war on men, and it's far more likely that your young adult son's life will be ruined by these laws than your adolescent daughter's life will be helped by them.

thunderlips11 says

Sex with pubescents is Hebephilia, not Pedophilia. Pedophilia is pre-pubescent children.

I feel there is a massive difference between a grown adult having sexual relations with a 14 year old vs. a 9 year old.

Exactly.

thunderlips11 says

The first should be a fine and maybe a course on adolescent psychology or something.

I'd propose
- criminalizing prepubescent sex
- civil infractions from age 12 to 14
- full legality for age 15 and above

Most civilized nations have lower age-of-consent laws. For example, the age of consent is 16 in Cyprus, Finland, Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, and Switzerland. It is 15 in France, the Czech Republic, Denmark, and Greece. It is 14 in Austria, Germany, Portugal and Italy.

It seems ridiculous that a 15-year-old can be tried as an adult but cannot legally consent to sex. The only consistency in American law is that the state always favors disempowering the individual and taking away his or her choices.

It is also ridiculous that adolescents and children can be strip searched in a country that is so obsessed over shielding them from sex. Of course, it's ridiculous that we allow any person to be strip searched or body cavity searched for any reason. That's real sexual abuse. Right now millions of people including rape victims are being stripped searched and humiliated. That's perversion. Yet the state treats this as not at all harmful or objectionable.

Dan8267 says

The very phrasing you use "fair game" presumes a gross falsehood, that sexual relationships are zero sum games and that any female having consensual sex is being used.

What about "fair game" means zero sum? Fair game and off limits mean legal and illegal. Dan8267 says

Any litmus test will be arbitrary,

We agree on that. That pretty much contradicts your claim that the only rational way to set the limit has to do with biological capability to have kids and desire to have sex.Dan8267 says

So whether or not a right exists, in your opinion, is determined by deadlines?

Practicality is necessary when making laws and coming to consensus on what those laws should be. Having or not having a baby is not a deadline, it is a practical consequence of the decision regarding abortion.