patrick.net

Back in 2009-2011, many of us couldn't get in the damn door with all the investor activity going on. Unless you were a volume investor and already had a strong relationship with a crooked realtor who carried your number in their back pocket and was willing to list properties as nothing more than a formality (since the property was already accounted for to the investor), then the only way to increase your chances of getting in the door was through dual agency.

"Hello Mr. Realtor, I'm interested in purchasing this home you are showing. Poor me doesn't have any representation and I would like your company to represent me as the buyer". You would be assigned to their favorite realtor within the company, and the entire 6% would go to them to split any way they thought appropriate. Your chances of competing with the volume investors now improved.

Crooked game, I tell ya.

BayArea says

Back in 2009-2011

Back when I was working in the Bay Area, I was always amazed at the number of Realtor For Sale signs posted along El Camino Real. No way I would buy one of those overpriced properties.

jvolstad says

Back when I was working in the Bay Area, I was always amazed at the number of Realtor For Sale signs posted along El Camino Real. No way I would buy one of those overpriced properties.

Sir, you should see them now... My wife and I moved to San Carlos last year (we are renting, both of our jobs are in Belmont/San Mateo). The median detached single family home price is $1.58M here, per zillow.

I know salaries are high in this area, but two six figure earners would have a hard time with that... EVEN if they have $320K cash down payment in the first place.

A friend of mine is looking for a house in Vegas. Her shitty realtor expects her to find listings herself and he will show them to her.

She works 8-5, M-F. He won't show anything after 6p and doesn't work on Sundays. He won't show her anything with a discounted commission.

I told her that she is getting fucked and she says he told her she has to buy through him, although she signed no contract.

Fucking Realtors

elliemae says

A friend of mine is looking for a house in Vegas. Her shitty realtor expects her to find listings herself and he will show them to her.

She works 8-5, M-F. He won't show anything after 6p and doesn't work on Sundays. He won't show her anything with a discounted commission.

I told her that she is getting fucked and she says he told her she has to buy through him, although she signed no contract.

Fucking Realtors

Elliemae, obvious question: Why not tell said realtor to pound sand and find another one immediately?

There seems to be so many sources out there when it comes to MLS listings that many buyers don't even want their realtors to waste their time by sending them listings that they are already receiving daily through redfin, zillow, etc. Most of us just need realtor to a.) physically show us places we are interested in that aren't having open houses and b.) notify us of back-door listings that don't reach MLS (this is extremely rare and typically happens with the most savvy of investors/agents who have relationships and agreements in place regarding commission).

Otherwise, they are largely useless. I've always been interested in exploring the FSBO option and hope to go down that path eventually.

Hey guys,
I just want to remind everyone on the terminology.
Broker - Has a broker license, sits behind desk. Most likely bought a franchise. Manages the agents.
Agent - Has an agent license and has to be associated with a broker to be able to represent buyers and sellers. Agent works on behalf of the broker.
Realtorâ„¢ - Is an agent (or broker) who has become a Realtorâ„¢. They have joined the NAR (a trade association) who then pledge to a 'code of ethics'. We all know the NAR...
Note: Not all agents are Realtorsâ„¢

It's just a terminology thing, sry to be picky.

junkmail says

Realtorâ„¢ - Is an agent (or broker) who has become a Realtorâ„¢

Should you be using the noun you are attempting to define within your definition of that noun?

Is an agent who has taken the NAR pledge but doesnt have a broker lic, a realtor?

Yes.
Realtor is a brand name. You take the pledge, you join and you get to call yourself a Realtorâ„¢. You get a snappy pin for your jacket and your BS becomes more polished. It's a ploy to separate yourself from the sales-herd. I guess it say's YOUR SERIOUS. (I didn't just get divorced and needed a job.)
A realtor has no extra knowledge or ethics for that matter. I guess you can think of it as a union of some sort. It's voluntary to join.
To become a broker you have to have been an agent for min of 2 years, within the last 5 years (California RE License)
You don't have to be a Realtor, to be an agent or a broker. A Realtor is something different, it's a trade association with a lot of pull in Washington (National Association of Realtors). There is some pressure to join, as they constantly feed their members articles, graphs and even the pre-printed forms that are used as industry standard are created by the NAR. Look at the bottom of the Purchase Agreement.

Windsurfing is really sailboarding
A Xerox is really a photocopy
Jet Ski is really a personal watercraft
Jacuzzi is really a hot tub
Realtor is trying to become synonymous with Real Estate Salesperson

junkmail, thank you for the helpful description.

I think you forgot to mention the $120/yr dues to be part of the NAR, to prove that you are really serious ;-)

BayArea says

I think you forgot to mention the $120/yr dues to be part of the NAR,

Is that all it cost to wear the R pin? Cheap.

jvolstad says

Is that all it cost to wear the R pin? Cheap

Costco pizza and NAR membership still remain the best deals in town in 2016.

Would like to hear from the brokerage....... Your biases are showing........ Wondering what they say about you....... And what happened to your KB Home?

Not that I have any great affinity for realtors, but these two statements appear contradictory.
If you don't need a buyers agent, then that also implies you don't need their office to tell you what's for sale in the area.
So you should not be insulted when you try to use their offices for data, yet not hire them for jack.

jvolstad says

With so many online resources, there is little reason to "hire" a so called "buyer agent" that would represent my best interests.

jvolstad says

So this morning I thought I would stop by the agency to see if they had any listings in the zip code that I was interested in.

It's an insult to be called a commissioned sales person.

I asked a listing agent at an open house if I could make an offer without a broker and ask for 2% back. She said no, and explained that they would not think that I would know what I was doing enough to make it through the process and that they would probably have to be acting as the buyers agent anyway. I didn't make an offer, so I don't know what they would have done with it, but I would expect them to be hesitant about a non agent doing things correctly.

If you do want to pocket the buyer fee, get a copy of an offer letter, and amend it to your liking. If you present an organized offer letter and negotiate a fee when you give it to the agent, that might work. Do any realtor / agents have any thoughts on that?

As far as the terminology goes Realtor / agent, NAR wants to protect the brand to a point, but they still want people to misuse Realtor so that it become synonymous with agent. If the public thinks an agent is a Realtor then there is pressure on agents to become Realtors. That's how NAR likes it. I say call agents Realtors and call Realtors AssholesTM.

Wonder how the Brokerage would describe the exchange? Find it interesting that you TROLL a Real Estate Brokerage but wonder how HONEST you were.......
Tell us what happened to you KB Home at 8114 Sandbar Point San Antonio, TX 78254, why do you no longer live there? if you are so brave in your convictions why to you HIDE here? Why do you not post a blog and let the WHOLE world hear your opinion? Or is this just what a Weekend 'Warrior' does and how he handles life?
If so brave why to you ease drop on REALTORS having conversations but never confront? Afraid of what is going to happen?
We all know the answer don't we?
And to all the other pundits: Which one has a law degree?

YesYNot says

If you do want to pocket the buyer fee, get a copy of an offer letter, and amend it to your liking. If you present an organized offer letter and negotiate a fee when you give it to the agent, that might work. Do any realtor / agents have any thoughts on that?

Yes. That's the way to go. 6% total up for grabs. Sellers broker guaranteed 3% and possible 6% if they represent bother buyer and seller. The real problem is trying to work a deal in this RE environment. Houses are moving fast, going for over asking..etc. (California). So no one has time to mess around with someone trying to save 20 to 40K. Especially when you're essentially taking it out of their potential pockets.

BUT. It never hurts to try. And the best way is the way YesYNot mentioned above.

WHY IT WON'T WORK
Here's a scenario... A buyers agent has 3 offers and one is for all cash, one is conforming loan and the other seems straight forward but he wants to handle all the paperwork himself/herself and a 2% agent's fee back at close of escrow. An agent is OBLIGATED to present all offers. But... either A) The agent can verbally say... "I have 2 strong offers and one not so great"... OR B) When the sellers agent goes through the offers they can immediately see the loss of commission in the offer letter. Someone is getting a pay cut over the reduced available commission. He/she will steer the seller away from the 'complex' offer.

Things are outta control right now, that why there is no wiggle room on commissions (in the areas I'm familiar with). Things are happening waaay to fast to even to exercise due diligence. "Do you have the down ready now?" "Close in 30 days?" "Drop all contingencies..." "Sellers refusing to pay for anything" "Bend over..."

IMHO there are better ways to save/make money. The Broker/Agent thing is locked down tight. One is better off using your smarts in finding an undervalued home or something with hidden potential.

jvolstad says

Although I am a long time renter, if I were to find a house in my neighborhood, at the right price, I might consider buying it

Then you are a long time fool. You should have bought years ago, when the buy/rent ratio would have made much much more sense.

jvolstad says

Anyway, the Realtor became insulted when I said that I did not want to deal with a possible dual agency situation.

The realtor realized he was talking to a complete jackass moron. YOU walked into an agency, asked if they had listings, then said you don't want to deal with a dual agency situation. If you offer on one of their listings, it is AUTOMATICALLY likely to be viewed as a dual agency, since you do not have a different agent. So, the agent had only one choice, tell you to piss off, because if he or she talks to you at all about any of their listings, it will create a very likely implied dual agency. jvolstad says

Realtor said they would not help me without a buyer agency agreement

The realtor is smart. He or she realized that you are a jacktard, likely to stiff them on a commission given half a chance, and thus isn't going to waste time helping you out.

SO, since you don't seem to understand, dual agency happens when two different parties think the same agent/brokerage is working on their behalf. Like you, buying a listing from the listing agent.

You have just enough knowledge to be dangerous to yourself, or any agent who didn't protect themselves while working with you.

I sense a disturbance in the force, I have not felt this since... REALTOR?!