patrick.net

Patrick says

families with no material want can still be turned to this kind of ideology

The data are clear: among Muslims, education and wealth are risk factors for terrorism. Examples include Osama bin Laden, who in his 20s had already inherited more than $10 million and had a university education. The families have only themselves to blame for teaching the kids to hold Islam sacred, though they got an assist from politicians who claim to "respect" Islam.

DBOAPD, you make a good point about recruitment based on idealism, e.g. Cambridge Apostles turning to communism, but Islam appeals to the worst in people. Consider the valedictorian from Mississippi, daughter of a cop, majored in chemistry, and got married to the son of an Imam. People find it "puzzling" because they don't want to understand her reasons. For example, she liked particularly a video of ISIL throwing gay couples off rooftops, and then the whole village stoning the victims to death. For some people (e.g. Tonya Harding), the same motivation that drives them to valedictorian and university is a zero sum game: to be superior, others must be inferior. Islam turns that into a virtue, and offers an opportunity. The WWII Axis included Nazis, Fascists, and Muslims, due to the similarities of their ideologies. These aren't your coffee shop utopians idealizing Marx. These are more like Nazi bullies, but with brains and time to visualize complex conspiracies.

Patrick says

Yet more evidence for the uncomfortable truth that most terrorism is motivated simply by Islam itself.

You can generalize that to all religions. If these terrorists were to convert to Christianity, they would remain as violent. One simply cannot have a worldview based on myths and superstitions and not be subject to irrational fits of violence to defend such an indefensible world view. Anything rational will challenge the dogma of a religion and thus will call for violent opposition. A world free of terrorism cannot be achieved before a world free of religion.

Dan8267 says

generalize

Statistically incorrect. If you want to understand the output, you have to read the code. With the other Abrahamic faiths, outsiders and usually insiders can criticize the doctrine and demand change, but Islam declares blasphemy a capital offense. Consequently, demands to change Islam, or even cartoons about it, result in lethal violence. Efforts to ban religion in general have not really succeeded, but if you want to reduce terrorism, it would make sense to start by confronting the religion that inspires most of it.

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

The dimension to probe here was the recruitment of the elite kids in universities.

No, that's wrong. There are also plenty of non-elite Muslim terrorists.

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

that's the field the mullahs and jesus crazies go to reap.

Lol! As if Jesus crazies have killed even one ten-thousandth the number of random people that the Mohammed crazies have. You're grasping at straws with this comparison.

What nearly all terrorists have in common is devotion to Islam as it is taught in the Koran. They are very honest about it. You are not.

curious2 says

Statistically incorrect. If you want to understand the output, you have to read the code. With the other Abrahamic faiths, outsiders and usually insiders can criticize the doctrine and demand change, but Islam declares blasphemy a capital offense. Consequently, demands to change Islam, or even cartoons about it, result in lethal violence.

As per Islam, only Allah can change the words in the Koran. Anyone else who attempts to change it will face death.

Dan8267 says

If these terrorists were to convert to Christianity, they would remain as violent.

Lol again!

rando says

Dan8267 says

If these terrorists were to convert to Christianity, they would remain as violent.

Very foolish comment, Dan. These people were not born terrorists. They were born normal, but Islam brainwashed them into becoming suicide bombers.

curious2 says

Statistically incorrect. If you want to understand the output, you have to read the code.

Yet empirically true. Christianity's history is full of examples from the Spanish Inquisitions to the crusades to the conquistadors to slavery to the slaughter of native Americans to the burning of witches and homosexuals of amply bad and violent behavior. Yes, the code of Islam is worse, but the underlying irrationality is the same. Faith, the belief without and even in contrast to proof, is the fundamental problem. If a person can accept one ridiculous myth on faith, why not another? If a person can fervently believe some benevolent sky daddy wants him to be kind to others, then that person can also believe the imaginary sky daddy wants him to kill others. The problem is following an imaginary sky daddy's wishes in the first place.

It's not a good idea to listen to the voices in your head no matter what nice things they say. There is no guarantee the voices won't start saying evil things as your delusion develops.

And what is the up side to believing in a false god? Moral behavior is far better served by critical thinking and cooperation.

rando says

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

The dimension to probe here was the recruitment of the elite kids in universities.

No, that's wrong. There are also plenty of non-elite Muslim terrorists.

He's right. There can be more than one answer. You can have some recruited at a university, much as Jesus freaksor HariKrisnas have been recruited at universities in the past. It doesn't mean all jesus freaks or HariKrisnas come from University recruiting.

I think he was trying to address your point that that these terrorists aren't always from poor suffering situations, and in this instance were even "upper class ?" It also doesn't make you wrong that Islam is also a common thread.

And it also doesn't make me wrong that Islam is an extremely poor predictor of the likelihood that someone is a terrorist.

Being Islamic is obviously a necessary condition for being an Islamic terrorist (although this is some kind of PC shattering breakthrough to some of the people around here). But being Islamic is still infinitely far from being a sufficient condition for someone being an Islamic terrorist.

marcus says

Being Islamic is obviously a necessary condition for being an Islamic terrorist (although this is some kind of PC shattering breakthrough to some of the people around here). But being Islamic is still infinitely far from being a sufficient condition for someone being an Islamic terrorist.

Being a Muslim is the first stage to being a terrorist.
Willing to die for Islam is the second stage.

More consequences of religion in modern times.

www.youtube.com/embed/3LKidXHseag

Dan8267 says

Christianity's history is full of examples from the Spanish Inquisitions to the crusades to the conquistadors to slavery to the slaughter of native Americans to the burning of witches and homosexuals of amply bad and violent behavior.

I could be mistaken, but in every case you mentioned, the evil done in the name of Christianity was done by a government.

Individual Christians do not self-organize or take it upon themselves to murder non-Christians.

But individual Muslims do self-organize and take it upon themselves to murder non-Muslims with alarming frequency.

Islam needs its own Martin Luther. They've never had their Reformation to get members thinking about things...

rando says

Dan8267 says

Christianity's history is full of examples from the Spanish Inquisitions to the crusades to the conquistadors to slavery to the slaughter of native Americans to the burning of witches and homosexuals of amply bad and violent behavior.

I could be mistaken, but in every case you mentioned, the evil done in the name of Christianity was done by a government.

Individual Christians do not self-organize or take it upon themselves to murder non-Christians.

But individual Muslims do self-organize and take it upon themselves to murder non-Muslims with alarming frequency.

Furthermore, these comparisons with the middle-ages carry hardly any weight. Back then most people believed in supernatural forces and also those who didn't could be extremely irrationally violent as civilization and basic laws simply hadn't progressed that far yet. Whether it was the Mayans, the Vikings, the Indians or the Conquistadores, life was mostly a savage one governed by the supremacy of the strongest and - by today's standards - terrifying sacrifices and ceremonies. Pretty much every religion these days is reformed enough to coexist with everything else, they may refuse blood transfusions or even basic electricity, but they don't go around and kill the non-believer next door. And in many cases they bring a lot of good services, such as much needed medical help, food, shelter and education to drug-addicted street-kids, for the extremely low price of joining the mission and praising/worship and practicing their rituals. Pretty much all other religions coexist peacefully with "competing" religions and non-believers.

mell says

Pretty much all other religions coexist peacefully with "competing" religions and non-believers.

Secularism tamed every religion except Islam. We need to find a way to tame Islam.

Strategist says

We need to find a way to tame Islam.

Limiting immigration, while not a guarantee and preventing ghettoization is the best chance. Europe got the ghettoization part wrong and it's clear for all to see the consequences.

rando says

I could be mistaken, but in every case you mentioned, the evil done in the name of Christianity was done by a government.

There are billions of examples throughout history of individuals and small groups of Christians doing horrible things. Here's one, a tragedy that still impoverishes us today.

www.youtube.com/embed/9vMPtpC4wGk

Those ancient Christians are the ancestors of today's Muslims. Do you really think that today's Muslims would be kind and gentle if converted to Christianity? Or would they act like the Christians in the video above?

And if the horrific murder of a brilliant woman and the destruction of the greatest store of ancient knowledge wasn't enough, consider that our technology would be far more advanced if it were not for Christianity holding back science and technology for a thousand years. We could have cured AIDS and cancer by now if it weren't for Christianity.

Every person who dies from cancer today is a person's whose life was cut short by Christianity and it's war against science and rationality.

MMR says

Strategist says

We need to find a way to tame Islam.

Limiting immigration, while not a guarantee and preventing ghettoization is the best chance. Europe got the ghettoization part wrong and it's clear for all to see the consequences.

We need to tame them in their own countries. Here are the steps:
In order to tame them, we must control them.
In order to control them, we must have puppet governments.
In order to have puppet governments, we must put a gun to his head.
In order to put a gun to their head, we need a tough President.

There is a continuous spectrum of rationality to irrationality. At one end is atheism and naturalism. Next to it is agnosticism and secularism. A little down the line is vague "spirituality" and the god of the gaps. Further still is the belief in luck, karma, and destiny. Then comes the belief in astrology, numerology, healing crystals, and auras. None of these things is terribly dangerous. They are minor evils, but lead down the road to greater ones.

Further still we enter the area of new age beliefs, and the charlatans that practice here. A step further and we have faith healers, priests, mass intentions, personal prayers, and guardian angels. The consequences of accepting these beliefs start to get costly as people start making important decisions based on lies.

At the halfway point we encounter "light religion", the kind of community group delusion that many people find comforting but causes further bad decision making such as abstinence-only "education" and the breakdown of the separation of church and state seen throughout American history.

After that comes ritualization, the indoctrination of children, and control over basic civil functions like birth and marriage. A few step forwards and you have rigid moral codes with very questionable morality. Then comes dogma followed by the elevation of mortal beings to sainthood or prophet. Another step and you have Christian fundamentalists shooting "god hates fags" at funerals and calling for a ban on same-sex marriage. A step past that and you have "morality laws" that outlaw prostitution, homosexuality, gambling, drinking, working on the holy day, or whatever behavior the clerics don't want. At this point faith is utterly incompatible with democracy and liberty.

A little more down the road and you see corporal and capital punishment for such behaviors. Then you see punishment for anything that challenges the faith. Welcome to the Christian Dark Ages. One more step and you have modern day Middle Eastern Islam. And there are a few steps past that as well ultimately leading to apocalyptic cults.

Yeah, modern Christianity is far less dangerous than modern Islam, but it is still the same fundamental problem: faith. You can never defeat Islam without defeating the irrational and destructive trait of faith. And once you have accepted that faith must die, you have accepted that all religions must die. Little evils lead to larger ones. It's the broken window theory. It applies to religion, faith, and spirituality as well.

The way to defeat Islam is to purge all privileges for superstitious beliefs from our society. There should be no special protections for any religious matter, for protecting all possible religions is impossible and therefore protecting any is effectively advocating that religion. If a person said he believe a galactic overlord dropped atomic bombs on alien souls, he would be deemed mentally incompetent to vote. Christianity and other religions are no less ridiculous. We should not encourage such mental illness in an age were the weapons are destructive enough to end our species in under 20 minutes.