patrick.net

turtledove says

As for the card... As part of the demand letter, we are not to contact her... This is where she pretends that we like to harass her. More fun irony! But the card would be a violation of that... So no can do.

Ah, hamstering. Or as the great Costanza said:

"It's not a lie - if you believe it!"

Quigley says

Sorry for your troubles TD, I hope things turn around soon! I have a feeling that they will.

My *unsolicited* advice: get engrossed in a project that will keep you in a "moving forward" direction whilst taking your mind off impossible people like his ex.

I put everything into a package to our Atlanta attorney today. I never thought I'd have to engage him again, but here we are. Anyway, I'm just going to let him handle this. He's the one who had the ex screaming as she ran out of the courtroom... So, I have no doubt, he'll get this all back on track. I just need to let him do his job. Doubtless, I will pay dearly for that service. But he's a great attorney... Just didn't think we'd be THERE again.

I will pay dearly

-----------

Picking up hubbys tab for the lawyer, right on, TD!

turtledove says

Okay, so about three weeks ago, my husband sends her a note to let her know that she will have the full payment of the $33k by September 15th. We were excited to finally be done with her... We thought she'd be happy to get the money. Seemed to me... everyone should be happy.

On Friday, we get a letter from an attorney. The letter demands payment by September 15th (plus attorney's fees) or they were going to pursue action with child support enforcement and file contempt of court charges. First, didn't we already agree to pay by September 15th (unprompted, I might add)? So, the point of the demand letter was a little confusing. And since when does an attorney have the authority to award herself attorney's fees? Then we receive a notice from CA child support enforcement that an account has been opened!!! So, they lied in the demand letter. They weren't waiting until September 15th. They already opened the case with the state.

It's the power to make y'alls life miserable she wants. No longer having that to hold over your head, she goes and starts new drama.

errc says

Picking up hubbys tab for the lawyer, right on, TD!

We have a business together, so it's our money... But I've always been the one to deal with the lawyer. The lawyer my husband had before he and I were married was a saddest piece of shit I had ever come across. I swear... he was working for the other side. That's how my husband's first order required him to pay $6k/month in c/s and $3k/month in alimony based on a salary that didn't even begin to support that. His take home pay was like $12k/month at the time! My husband was left with just a couple of thousand a month to survive. It was absurd. As politely as possible, I informed my husband that I was now in charge of hiring lawyers.

But we do, in fact, share all expenses. I shield him from the emotional crap as much as I can... I do require a couple of days to get out of my stupor, but after that, I'm bullet proof and he can forget about her and concentrate on his job... which is being a good doctor. I cannot have him fucking up because he's distracted by her crap, or anyone else's for that matter. I wish I could skip the stupor part... But I guess I need that. Meltdown then solitude then sleep then I'm good. I'm in the final stage. I slept from 10:00 last night until 6:30 this evening. It's not really sleep... I think it's my body's way of forcing a sort of meditation. I don't question it. I tend to have amazing ideas afterward... So I try to allow the process run its course.

Back to work tomorrow.

But if this situation creates a cash flow issue in the next week, I even have a plan for that. I'll just sell my engagement ring. What's the point of stuff? It's just a ring. I can get another when things settle down. So, if the lawyer needs a retainer I cannot handle right now (cuz I'm not pulling my son out of his dream military school, that's not an option) I'll just sell the ring. It's a 2 carat, round f, vs2. I should be able to get several thousand for it.

Smoke a quarter oz of gorilla glue, and call me in the morning. All will be right with the world

sin solución de ningún problema!

You get soaked like a mofo selling something like that. I know a friendly pawnbroker though ;)

errc says

You get soaked like a mofo selling something like that. I know a friendly pawnbroker though ;)

I know, I'm still thinking... It will depend on what the attorney comes back with. But I'm a firm believer in if you want to win, you have to be prepared to do anything. I like to win. I won't give her an advantage because she caught me off guard and I won't have the money to fight back until the second week of September... and she started the clock running before that. You gotta do what you gotta do. A ring is just a ring. It wouldn't be the first wedding stuff I sold. I sold a bunch of stuff when we started our practice and needed capital for equipment. I sold some really pretty stuff that was supposed to be my daughter's... But at the end of the day, the business was the immediate issue. So getting caught up in stupid sentiment serves no purpose but to weaken you.

Alternatively, we also have a settlement coming in on a wage dispute. A prior employer thought it would be funny to short my husband his final month of pay (2013) because my husband had the audacity to quit. He was used to my nice, sweet husband. Didn't realize he'd be dealing with me. $25K turned into $129K. It's due Sept. 7th on the filed agreement. The deal is signed and filed as of July 30th, so this is happening or he's in contempt. So, I'm hoping the divorce attorney will extend me some credit based on that.

We'll just have to wait and see. Have you noticed how many people in this world are shit?

Not to worry. The good news is I've ordered iwop to liquidate his two trailers which he bloviates into some kind of Trumpian Empire, and send you the proceeds as a long term loan @ 1.2%.
The bad news is his two trailers will only fetch around 11k....................total.

turtledove says

But if this situation creates a cash flow issue in the next week, I even have a plan for that

turtledove says

I'm regarded by most people as attractive. I've always been the pretty, fun, smart, girl

and modest

turtledove says

He was used to my nice, sweet husband. Didn't realize he'd be dealing with me. $25K turned into $129K. It's due Sept. 7th on the filed agreement. The deal is signed and filed as of July 30th, so this is happening or he's in contempt. So, I'm hoping the divorce attorney will extend me some credit based on that.

Jesus. I hope your husband doesn't ever leave you. You'll make his last ex look like a chump ;-).

FP says

and modest

I said I was just putting it all out on the table, here. I'm trying to look at things honestly. I don't normally go around talking like that about myself. But it is necessary to paint the picture. It seemed simpler than going into stories about a guy in high school shaving his head to get my attention or describing how I was named best dressed of a senior class I wasn't even a member of, as I was only a junior, among other things. I could have just listed facts and let you decide the qualities I likely possessed, but I just tried to be concise and described it for what it was, as it's relevant as to why his ex might feel threatened. Leaving out information to demonstrate that I can be modest, too, seems like a waste of time.

Turtle, I see now why you can't take your husband's ex off your back. You are too much fun to pick on.

FP says

Turtle, I see now why you can't take your husband's ex off your back. You are too much fun to pick on.

I lost my sense of humor on Friday. It will return. I'm not depressed by nature. Normally, I get out of bed and shower every day. It's just things like this where I know that the deck is stacked against us... and she still has a little bit of power to really fuck with our lives... Did you know that his medical license could be suspended? Oh yes! She knows it too and she's delighting in her power. It wouldn't be suspended for long, as eventually the facts get out... but it will be up to us to unwind everything. She can create problems that will take us months to unwind. Why? Because the law says she can. She just has to report it (which she already did or we wouldn't have been contacted by the state). It's up to the ex-husband to prove what is or isn't true. I was three weeks from a clean get away. I'm starting to feel sick again.

If you didn't see it above, I've re-engaged our divorce attorney.... the one who had her screaming as she ran out of the court room. She doesn't like him much. I sent the file over to him and I'm washing my hands of it. As much as I hate paying one last retainer to an attorney, I know that for my own sanity it must be done.

YesYNot says

Jesus. I hope your husband doesn't ever leave you. You'll make his last ex look like a chump ;-).

I think the first one scared him from ever even thinking about it.

As for the wage case... That was easy. I'm an accountant... I know all about waiting time penalties, back pay, front pay... Funny story... He tried to change the story after he got the calculation and claimed that he fired my husband, instead. I then reminded him of the contractual severance of six months unless he could prove cause. The attorney on the case is a friend of mind. We worked very closely. But this guy was an idiot, so that was almost fun.

Frankly, one reason we agreed to settle for the $129k was because I just want all this garbage behind me. We have a great practice. It's doing very well (not well enough to pay tens of thousands to lawyers every five fucking minutes) but it's doing well and every month is better than the last. We settled because at least I know we'd get the money. You take risks when you go to trial. Even though I calculated his worst exposure at about $278K plus any punitives that the jury might have seen fit to award, there is no guarantee that he would pay it. People ignore judgments all the time. Then you get into putting liens on his property and waiting for him to die to collect. So, we decided to take the $129K offer and put him out of our minds forever. So, he was done. She was about to be done. I have a huge windfall of IVF cases starting next week... I was ready to begin the part of my life where my biggest problem is my daughter mouthing off and dying her hair blue.

Just to clarify.... My daughter has done no such thing. She's super sweet. I had a hair appointment on Thursday, before all this happened... When she saw me crying, she said "you're hair looks too pretty for you to be crying." She's a doll. Both my kids are. And, at least so far, she's the type who likes to look pretty in a traditional way. Thank God for that. A lot of the kids at her school have started dying their hair strange colors. I told her she could do it if she wants, but that I'd prefer it be professionally done so she doesn't ruin her hair.... and I reserve the right to laugh at her ridiculous hair every time she comes into the room. She said she thinks it's an ugly look and wouldn't ever do it.... but since I was offering, she wanted some natural looking highlights, instead. So we did that together on Thursday.

mell says

That sucks. Men have been getting fucked over in most Western nations for many years now. Voting left has consequences.

Ahh, mell.... As much as I would love to blame the left, and we all know how much entertainment I derive from that activity, it was actually the right that introduced the laws that formalized c/s calculations, penalties, and enforcement agencies. This was done innocently enough. It was done as a way to get people off the welfare rolls. The left then came in and really twisted it, flying it all under the flag of women's rights and "the best interest of the children." The funny thing is, the very people the law was designed to help weren't actually the biggest beneficiaries... It's the rich bitches who have enough of YOUR money to drag it through the courts who are the biggest beneficiaries.

turtledove says

The funny thing is, the very people the law was designed to help weren't actually the biggest beneficiaries...

Not so sure that is true. Those who benefit the most, are the one's that would suffer the most if this all did not exist. The System

The lawyers
The Judges
The court clerks
The post office

I know you care now, because it is affecting you adversely, but working class American men with children that get sucked into this system, suffer far worse fate than you and your financial penalty. I know too many guys that spend most the rest of their lives ducking warrants, in and out of jail. Fees and fines out the ass. Bullshit appointments with their handlers. Then they don't pay a fine, so they lose their drivers license, and get more fines, and at that point they are beyond fucked, with pretty much zero chance of escape.

BUT IT ALL GOOD CUZ IT FOR DA CHILDREN!!!

turtledove says

Ahh, mell.... As much as I would love to blame the left, and we all know how much entertainment I derive from that activity, it was actually the right that introduced the laws that formalized c/s calculations, penalties, and enforcement agencies. This was done innocently enough. It was done as a way to get people off the welfare rolls. The left then came in and really twisted it, flying it all under the flag of women's rights and "the best interest of the children." The funny thing is, the very people the law was designed to help weren't actually the biggest beneficiaries... It's the rich bitches who have enough of YOUR money to drag it through the courts who are the biggest beneficiaries.

The right caved after consistent pressure from the left. Of course they saw an opportunity to reduce government spending by fucking over the men. Most party-line Republicans are cuckservatives who do not distinguish themselves at all from the leftists cultural-marxists in many important matters. Utterly useless. That's why the flight-plan usually never changes much, no matter who is in charge. I am confident though that the left will be able to destroy free speech, civil liberties and capitalism faster than the right ;) In the end they are all bothers-in-arms who legalized insider trading for themselves while making it a serious crime for the general public. Even if they have to pay child support / vaginimony, they will have made enough (taxpayer-stolen) money to pay for it.

Would the child support and alimony rulings be different if the situation had been reversed - a stay at home dad with two little children, who had not worked after graduating in order to take care of them, and a high-flying physician mother?

FP says

Would the child support and alimony rulings be different if the situation had been reversed - a stay at home dad with two little children, who had not worked after graduating in order to take care of them, and a high-flying physician mother?

I'm not sure the high-flying part is accurate, but in the state of GA at the time they got divorced, the children went to the mother 99% of the time. Pretty much anything short of the mother attempting to kill her children meant the calves belonged with the cow. That said, the non-custodial parent then had to pay 23% of gross income for two children to the custodial parent. So, my guess is she still would have gotten the children, and he would have had to pay 23% of imputed income based on the job that the court thinks he could obtain. It happened all the time.

turtledove says

and he would have had to pay 23% of imputed income based on the job that the court thinks he could obtain. It happened all the time.

Presumably the job he would get will not be high paying. Would he be getting alimony from her then? Also 23% of income for child support is not that outrageous, imho. I have estimated that in our family about 50% our expenses are directly or indirectly related to the children. This does not include savings for education.

FP says

Presumably the job he would get will not be high paying. Would he be getting alimony from her then? Also 23% of income for child support is not that outrageous, imho. I have estimated that in our family about 50% our expenses are directly or indirectly related to the children. This does not include savings for education.

**Note** Everything I say is about Georgia. Laws are different in other states. Georgia was one of the worst in the country. Cobb County was THE worst. (seriously, if you live in Cobb County and you know you're heading down the road to divorce, suggest a move over to DeKalb or Fulton. Do it now! Trust me on this one.).

The income would be imputed based on the job that the judge would decide you should have. So let's say you have an engineering degree, but was a stay at home dad. Your income would be imputed based on what engineers earn. Hard to believe, but it's true. Before income shares (which passed in 2007), the non-custodial parent always paid and was the only one ever expected to pay. It was assumed that the custodial parent was already "paying" by virtue of the fact that the kids reside with her.

As for 50% of your expenses being spent on your children, I agree with you to a certain degree. As an intact family, you and your wife decide together what expenses you have. You choose a house you can afford, you decide what lessons you can afford, you decide on what schools you can afford, you decide on what health plans you can afford, you decide if you can afford to have one parent be a stay-at-home-parent, etc...

Furthermore, the percentage is supposed to represent the non-custodial parent's share of expenses. So, if each parent were contributing 23% of gross, you'd have almost 100% of one person's net (assuming two incomes) being spent on children and we all know that's just absurd. (2007 income shares helped to fix this problem, so that's a good thing). Also, the straight percentage model doesn't work because the money that's spent on kids actually goes down as the income goes up. People who make $2 million a year, don't spend $1 million a year to meet the needs of their children? That's ridiculous! But the law didn't see it that way. They claimed to make exceptions for extraordinary incomes, but the judges rarely deviated from the percentage calculation. As far as they are concerned, the price of milk and bread are a function of a person's income.

When you get divorced, you are taking a pie and splitting it between people. Clearly, that means that the portion of the pie that each person may have is going to be smaller than the original pie. However, the GA courts never saw that. Everything must be done to maintain the standard of living for the children. So, since the kids ALWAYS stayed with momma, momma ALWAYS got the house. Because the house was affordable only when everyone lived under the same roof, most guys find themselves in terrible apartments barely scraping by. There was just no money left over to support a decent second residence.

Sometimes, we have to give up things when we make certain choices. For example... When my husband and I started our practice, we gave up lots of things... Extra curricular activities were cut down significantly, clothes shopping went away completely... I actually got hand-me-downs for the kids at the start of 6th grade... The quality was great and the kids didn't notice the difference, but the point is... when a family is in tact and economic circumstances change, we make adjustments... But when there's a divorce, the courts don't see it that way.

I swear on a stack of bibles that a guy I know spent the night in jail because he was a programmer who lost his job after the dot-com crash and the judge felt that he should have been able to find a job within three months. When the guy came back to ask for a reduction because the only job he could get was one that paid much less than the one he had that he lost, the judge told him that he had faith that the guy could find another job so he wasn't going to reduce the support obligation. (Cobb County, BTW).

zzyzzx says

There's no reason why you have to have children.

Unless you are one of those people who don't feel complete without it. It isn't necessarily logical... but the urge can be very strong. No one could have talked me into childlessness.

zzyzzx says

There's no reason why you have to have children.

Mine are the result of many generations of careful artificial selection, resulting in a perfect genetic mix. That by itself is a good enough reason. :)

turtledove says

Unless you are one of those people who don't feel complete without it. It isn't necessarily logical... but the urge can be very strong. No one could have talked me into childlessness.

Having children is the best thing ever.

Ironman says

Is she a teenager yet?? That will change, count on it!!

She's 12. No doubt I will become the stupidest person on the planet in the next couple of years.... But for now, she's everything a parent could want.

Ding dong the witch is dead!

So, as it always goes when you have your own business, one must constantly negotiate the ups and downs of cash flow. So now that the settlement funds have cleared and my 8 IVF cases from China all started last week, I'm firmly back in feast mode. So, after 15 years of her crap, we're finally done. I don't think it's completely sunk in, yet.

I found out what got her panties all in a bunch. You see, when we told her that we were very close to a settlement, we made the mistake of mentioning that. Our intentions were good. We just wanted to put her mind at ease. Like, "you're definitely getting paid by such-and-such date," as an assurance that she wouldn't have to wait if something changed our IVF/surgical caseload. We wanted her to rest assured that this was coming to an end.

The reason I know she got greedy is that her attorney actually called the settlement attorney trying to find out what the settlement amount was. Of course, our attorney wouldn't tell her anything. The crazy attorney then told our attorney that she had our permission not only to know the full amount, but also to DRAW funds directly from the escrow account!!!! WTF!?!? Then she tried to award herself attorney's fees. Remember, she had been okay and supportive all the way up until she found out about the settlement... then only when she heard she was getting paid, for sure, by a certain date, did she decide to engage an attorney. She didn't need to hire an attorney in order to get paid. We already agreed to it.

So, ex-wifey got all excited that we might be getting something that she thinks she's entitled to...

One thing this experience has done is cooled my jets about remodeling the house. We're just not strong enough, yet. So even though it's exciting to put some crap behind us... and had a giant bolus of IVF cases come in (in addition to the regular caseload), I've decided that giving it another year is probably the best move. So, the kitchens and the bathrooms stay as they are for a little while longer. I'm focusing on the huge accomplishments that have been made since last year... Last summer, I wasn't sure if I could afford food; this summer I was worried about coming up with private school tuition. I need to learn to enjoy each accomplishment as it happens and realize that it will be fun to remodel no matter when we do it. Everything doesn't have to happen now.

Besides if she's stupid enough to try to come after attorney's fees, I want to make sure she spends every dime of what I sent her. And that will take money on my part. I will make more. She won't.

turtledove is deplorable says

then only when she heard she was getting paid, for sure, by a certain date, did she decide to engage an attorney. She didn't need to hire an attorney in order to get paid. We already agreed to it.

So, ex-wifey got all excited that we might be getting something that she thinks she's entitled to...

Perhaps I'm wrong, but you might be misreading this. If I had to guess, my gut tells me the ex is into some attorney for money - the attorney was advising the ex but that attorney never made an official appearance with the court for a number of reasons (i.e. because its more difficult to withdraw). However, once there was a settlement on the table, the attorney (possibly doing this on contingency) makes an appearance to ensure he/she gets paid. Otherwise, the ex could take all the funds, not pay the attorney and that attorney may have to dicker with her on fees - this happens ALOT in other types of litigation.

So yeah, it seems silly the attorney would file right after a settlement is reached, but its the only way the attorney can obtain priority of payment. Granted, the ex'es counsel could/should have called your counsel to explain this was just to take a portion of payment/not a reason to sound the alarms. Still if the ex is half the POS you claim her to be, this is perhaps the only way can otherwise explain what seems to be a silly filing.

CDon says

So yeah, it seems silly the attorney would file right after a settlement is reached, but its the only way the attorney can obtain priority of payment. Granted, the ex'es counsel could/should have called your counsel to explain this was just to take a portion of payment/not a reason to sound the alarms. Still if the ex is half the POS you claim her to be, this is perhaps the only way can otherwise explain what seems to be a silly filing.

No filings have occurred. Just a threat of a filing after we agreed to pay. Now there's nothing to file, unless she wants to try to go after unnecessary attorney's fees... which wouldn't surprise me... but would be really stupid.

She's claiming that the attorney's fees are $2,500.... all of which were supposedly billed in the last month.

I think she got hosed. She was probably talking to some of her girlfriends and one of them said, "You should go after him because what if he runs off with all the money." So she got scared and hired her little friend who probably does "law" in her spare time. Her friend made her think that she needed her to be sure she'd get the money.

No judge is going to go for that. She can make the argument... In my humble experience, judge's very rarely order attorney's fees... And we have no history of not doing exactly what we say we are doing. We were communicative, we paid as the money came in.... I'm sure her little attorney friend made her paranoid that I (remember, I'm a sore spot for her) might be spending money on my kids... Which I don't deny... but as the only person between her and me who actually works at my medical practice, she's going to have a hard time arguing that I'm entitled to ZERO income. I've been through this many times before. In the early years, she took him to court repeatedly, convinced that we had money stashed all over the world. She never won a case. I'm not worried.

She would question everything that was ever purchased, claiming that we should pay her more... The judge never bought it. The judge always maintained that I (TD) have a right to work. That I am not responsible for her children... That I can spend my money on whatever I see fit. Like I said, she's tried it before and failed.

If she tries to now claim attorney's fees when there was no reason whatsoever for her to decide to hire an attorney a month ago, I will make sure she spends every dime of the $33k I sent her pursuing the action. She should know that about me by now.

turtledove is deplorable says

No filings have occurred. Just a threat of a filing after we agreed to pay.

Perhaps I misunderstood when in your original post you said "They weren't waiting until September 15th. They already opened the case with the state."

turtledove is deplorable says

I'm not worried.

You shouldn't be. You are right, they wouldn't get attys fees. However, I am saying the only reason the Exes attorney made an appearance/demand letter is to get a cut of the 33K payment to the ex (i.e. $2,500 to him/her, $30,500 to ex) - either way it doesn't affect what you pay. It is highly unlikely that minimal filings would incur $2,500 in a month. Likely, that is an unofficial tally that has been kept by her bs friend attorney by advising her over time. Again, its the only reason I can possibly explain why someone would hire an attorney when they were already told a check was en route.

CDon says

Perhaps I misunderstood when in your original post you said "They weren't waiting until September 15th. They already opened the case with the state."

I'm sorry. I didn't understand your question. I meant two different things when I said opening the case with the state and "filing." Filing would be filing a case in court. Opening up a case with the state, anyone can do. That doesn't need a lawyer. She may have had her lawyer do it on her behalf, but she could have done it herself, too.

Yes, she did open a case with the state, but she didn't give them any real information. So, this was nothing more than a sabre rattle, most likely at the behest of her attorney. The debt is paid, so she there's no account. Since she didn't give them any real information then the account doesn't serve any purpose. I didn't know that, at the time. We got a letter, so I assumed that she reported it. But apparently, she didn't.

Filing, on the other hand, would be like "contempt of court." Her attorney threatened that, too, but since we weren't served, nothing was filed. And it wouldn't matter now, because the case would have to be dismissed, as the complaint doesn't exist anymore.

It was a silly exercise on her part. Changed nothing... she got paid when we told her she'd get paid.