5 things to know about French burkini bans
invite response
2016 Aug 25, 9:42am 23,585 views 139 comments
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Allah the devil
2016 Aug 28, 6:01pm
That could be the reason why the Gulf States are the most liberal and civilized, as compared to other Islamic states.
I think you need to think that through again. Gulf States are not particularly liberal for starters. What about countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, Morocco, Tangiers, Jordan, Maldives....?
I dont know enough about the other countries. I should say most liberal as compared to the rest of the Mid East.
OneTwo
2016 Aug 28, 6:04pm
I dont know enough about the other countries. I should say most liberal as compared to the rest of the Mid East.
Well, there aren't that many other countries, but Lebanon, Egypt and Turkey are all considered more liberal.
Allah the devil
2016 Aug 28, 6:11pm
I dont know enough about the other countries. I should say most liberal as compared to the rest of the Mid East.
Well, there aren't that many other countries, but Lebanon, Egypt and Turkey are all considered more liberal.
Egypt? I would love to visit the pyramids, but terrorism against foreigners turns me off.
I visited Dubai in January, and loved the place. I felt safe, welcomed and got to drink beer.
OneTwo
2016 Aug 28, 6:21pm
Egypt? I would love to visit the pyramids, but terrorism against foreigners turns me off.
I visited Dubai in January, and loved the place. I felt safe, welcomed and got to drink beer.
Egypt is definitely more liberal than the Gulf states. Dubai is actually not liberal, it just has a certain approach in order to develop tourism. Outside of that, it is conservative. Egypt has a very strong secular history. You can't say that for the Gulf states.
Oh, and the pyramids are not that interesting really, impressive but not interesting - some far better sights to see in that country.
Egypt has a very strong secular history
True, when secular dictators, backed by the US were running the show. Leave it up to Egyptians in a democratic setting to vote for the muslim brotherhood.
By that definition, Iraq also has a very strong secular history, as does Libya and Syria.
Rashomon says
Dubai is actually not liberal,
correct. Dubai is not liberal, unless you are related to the royal family.
Allah the devil
2016 Aug 28, 6:30pm
Dubai is actually not liberal,
correct. Dubai is not liberal, unless you are related to the royal family.
I would disagree with this part. How can An Islamic country not be liberal when it does not practice the shariah laws? Or am I somehow wrong?
Rew
2016 Aug 28, 6:51pm
limit the refugees to that quota then. Rest get shipped to wealthy arab countries who aren't doing their fair share.
Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey?
I love the simple policy: "we kick em out. We ship em over to somebody else. They pay for the wall." Imagine another sovereign country driving a ship into our waters, and offloading 10,000 people on shore. I know your attitude is "f them, it's all about us." ... but these hypothetical 10,000 lives, what do you think happens? What about the relations between the two nations?
What the nations able to take refugees are doing is saving very real human lives.
You going to tell the Bosnian muslims that immigrated in the 90s to go back as well?
Obviously, it is antithetical to the mission of spreading Islam, which you seem to have difficulty grasping.
Muslims can just sneak through Mexico, haven't you heard?
No just muslims....other refugees don't seem to have as much of a problem with assimilation.
Ok, so you are just anti-Muslim, period.
He'll read that when hell freezes over because it would shoot holes in his theories and mess up his narrative, which is MSM driven.
The Mongols above are an awesome example of how effective religious tolerance is in empire building.
Immigration and invasion are not equivocal but you seem to be suggesting they are. The Normans, Vikings, and Mongols didn't immigrate. They came to conquer. The fact that MMR and Thunderlips11 spin the narrative toward this is pretty telling. If you are starting from the premise that Muslim immigrants are coming to conquer America, well, no wonder you think Trump has an answer.
"San Bernardino! Boston Marathon! This just cannot continue! They ARE out to conquer us!" The same argument the gun lobby uses about mass shootings applies: these do not account for substantive danger to our population when compared with other problems we face, including native-born-American on native-born-American crime which is of course, of a degree higher as to render the Muslim terrorist threat almost nothing.
Border and immigration enforcement, sure. A magic solution to radical terror and the economy: so wrong it's sad! Illegal immigration is way way down on the list of serious problems for the nation. Trump's nativism has grossly inflated its importance because it is an easy manipulator.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/19/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
If the US nativism backlash against Germans had won out, Trump might not even be around in America today!
As firmly as I can say it, nationalism is what the weak and scared run toward in times of war and economic hardship. It doesn't solve anything and it never lasts.
Rew
2016 Aug 28, 6:53pm
they'd foot the bill to build and staff mosques with Wahabi-Salafi Radical Clerics.
Source?
Shaman
2016 Aug 28, 6:56pm
When in France, dress like the Arabs, obviously ...
The French should have the power to make and enforce their own laws, and expel anyone who doesn't comply with them.
There is NO human right to immigrate.
Fuck a bunch of that!
Rew
2016 Aug 28, 7:02pm
It's also because many of the refugees are the non-Sunni plurality: Christians, but also Druze, Alawites, Shi'a, and other heretics to Sunnis. The Gulf States don't want to be swamped under a wave of Vile Heretics, and have no way to vet them.
So let's show them the right way to do it and ban all Muslims for the same reason : they don't fit some people's selective vision of what a native born American today should be. That's a great plan.
This is the same issue with pointing out the dress codes in the other Middle Eastern nations as a "see they do it to us!" point. The dress codes themselves are what is against our Western personal freedom beliefs. You don't counter that by banning dress that's out of the norm for your culture when you are concerned about preserving personal freedoms.
ISIS leadership must be licking its lips.
I learned Salafi extremism, by watching you dad, ALRIGHT!?!"
Lol that commercial....I remember seeing it several times in the 80's. I was convinced that the dad was a coke addict. But it looked like a blunt box in retrospect.
I tried time and time again to get a good look at what was in the box and couldn't decide if it was weed or coke.
Rew
2016 Aug 28, 7:06pm
The French should have the power to make and enforce their own laws, and expel anyone who doesn't comply with them.
There is NO human right to immigrate.
France will enforce its laws. Don't worry. This is why the have overturned the ban as illegal.
There is no human right to immigration, that's true. Many nations depend on it for growth and prosperity though.
Islamic country not be liberal when it does not practice the shariah laws?
The countries you said that didn't practice the sharia laws were secular dictatorships (Egypt).
You're the one who said Dubai wasn't liberal. Again its a monarchy, so that might explain the difference between conservative vs liberal. Although I'd say dubai is more liberal than Abu Dhabi and more liberal than places like Jordan or Saudi
Many nations depend on it for growth and prosperity though.
which is one reason why France and other european nations miscalculated by allowing muslim immigration willy-nilly and encouraging ghettoization.
ISIS leadership must be licking its lips.
some people's selective vision of what a native born American
No one said 'ban all muslims' just limit refugees to pre-defined quotas, such as the ones you pointed out, limit ghettoization (like Hamtramck MI and Dearborn) and whatever is going down in Idaho.
Limit immigration above and beyond that to professionals, similar to the standards that they apply to Indian nationals.
Even then, the country is less safe. Nidal Abu Malik at Fort Hood was a physician.
You don't counter that by banning dress that's out of the norm for your culture
Yes, you just let somalians into Minneapolis who refuse fares when they see people coming out of airport with liquor from duty-free shops
Shaman
2016 Aug 28, 7:19pm
Many nations depend on it for growth and prosperity though.
It's really really hard to see how Freeloading Muslims who occasionally blow people up and contribute nothing in the way of labor, culture, or production to society will contribute to growth and prosperity. More like the opposite; as most people in Europe are beginning to realize.
If you are starting from the premise that Muslim immigrants are coming to conquer America, well, no wonder you think Trump has an answer.
Didn't recall EVER saying Trump had an answer. LOL. I've said in the past that he doesn't have any clear policies.
But yeah, even after hundreds of years in India, muslims are often more empathetic to pakistan even when they don't have relatives there and furthermore, no matter what part of India they are in, they are muslims first and not Indians. This is the case since the days of the Mughal empire over 600 years ago.
Yes, the premise is that everywhere muslims go, they are looking to build critical mass. The US is no different. I do think the US has structural advantages that make ghettoization harder, but not impossible, when compared to Europe. Have you ever wondered why do you think so many of them have large families? Or maybe you didn't know that because the MSM talking points you regurgitate don't mention such cultural trends and you hardly even know any muslims.
Among Palestinians, very few have only one or two children. Most have a minimum of 3 but many had 5 or more and others are as high 9-10. Just one experience from my childhood in Gallup, NM. Today, they make up 4% of the population there.
nationalism is what the weak and scared run toward in times of war and economic hardship
I don't suffer from any economic hardship and would easily qualify as upper middle class in any market in the US.
Muslim immigrants are coming to conquer America
What do you think the muslim premise is in Europe? Again, why can't the refugees go to Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman, Yemen or Saudi Arabia or a combination of all. Outside of Yemen, most have the resources to accomodate refugees.
Given that the majority of gulf states can afford to accommodate the refugees, why do they insist on going to Europe, a foreign land with a foreign culture? Couldn't possibly be the welfare
Really need to cut down on the blind acceptance of MSM
Border and immigration enforcement, sure. A magic solution to radical terror and the economy
I didn't recall saying I had a problem with mexicans from mexico; chicanos yes, mexicans from mexico, even if here illegally, not so much. I just pointed that muslims can use the same border to sneak into the US and have done so.
Didn't you read the liberal politifact article I linked? Forgot, it didn't fit the narrative so it just registered as white noise.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/19/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
I agree that it's cool thing for Trump to exploit for Low information voters in red states.
But to reiterate, no one is building a wall and republicans and democrats both, particularly middle to upper middle class voters benefit from them being in the US.
My parents have some mexican employees, presumably legal, but impossible to know definitively. Better than the local yokels, also known as Bricktuckians (Brick, NJ residents) who are often useless as workers.
OneTwo
2016 Aug 28, 8:00pm
True, when secular dictators, backed by the US were running the show. Leave it up to Egyptians in a democratic setting to vote for the muslim brotherhood.
By that definition, Iraq also has a very strong secular history, as does Libya and Syria.
Yes, they also have far worse records with regards to human rights. And Egypt is still more liberal than the Gulf states, which was the comparison being made.
OneTwo
2016 Aug 28, 8:05pm
I would disagree with this part. How can An Islamic country not be liberal when it does not practice the shariah laws? Or am I somehow wrong?
I think you need to read up a bit more on the area.
OneTwo
2016 Aug 28, 8:11pm
You're the one who said Dubai wasn't liberal. Again its a monarchy, so that might explain the difference between conservative vs liberal. Although I'd say dubai is more liberal than Abu Dhabi and more liberal than places like Jordan or Saudi
Dubai is more liberal than Abu Dhabi, but both are still conservative. Jordan is more liberal than either, and of course Saudi Arabia...
OneTwo
2016 Aug 28, 8:17pm
Among Palestinians, very few have only one or two children. Most have a minimum of 3 but many had 5 or more and others are as high 9-10. Just one experience from my childhood in Gallup, NM. Today, they make up 4% of the population there.
The birth rate has been declining rapidly among the Muslim population around the world for all the usual reasons. They've just been a 'few' decades behind the West.
OneTwo
2016 Aug 28, 8:29pm
Again, why can't the refugees go to Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman, Yemen or Saudi Arabia or a combination of all. Outside of Yemen, most have the resources to accomodate refugees.
Many are. You're just choosing to ignore that fact.
This is the same issue with pointing out the dress codes in the other Middle Eastern nations as a "see they do it to us!" point. The dress codes themselves are what is against our Western personal freedom beliefs. You don't counter that by banning dress that's out of the norm for your culture when you are concerned about preserving personal freedoms.
More like you don't counter oppression with total preemptive appeasement and self-flagellation and welcoming that oppression into your country. This was a local law for a small area, not a countrywide ban, yet everybody is up in arms about it? It's those differences that makes even the culture of the West a relatively diverse one. It would be an Orwellian nightmare to have the same laws and governance imposed on the entire western world. It shows a good amount of hubris on the left dictating others what laws they pass and codifying morality - which ironically used to be a tenet of the right (birth control etc.) but now is pushed far more by the left - and it is also the number reason why the left has become far more dangerous than the right wrt to promoting an oppressive central government of Orwellian dimensions.
Allah the devil
2016 Aug 28, 8:50pm
The birth rate has been declining rapidly among the Muslim population around the world
Thank God for that.
Rew
2016 Aug 28, 9:43pm
Freeloading Muslims who occasionally blow people up
You think there are more freeloading immigrants doing harm in the US versus just freeloading Americans doing harm? Really?
More like you don't counter oppression with total preemptive appeasement and self-flagellation and welcoming that oppression into your country.
Yes, just the other day I witnessed someone get their hand cutoff for shoplifting at the local grocery store. There was nothing done. People just stood by. We have given these people too much already. Sorry, have to go, can hear the call to prayer echoing out over my town ... /sarcasm
The birth rate has been declining rapidly among the Muslim population around the world
3.1 vs 2.7 for Christians. The world is getting much more Muslim every passing second.
http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/
Christians are dying out. It's why we have a cool progressive Pope. He totes gets it.
Rew
2016 Aug 28, 9:52pm
Have you ever wondered why do you think so many of them have large families?
Cause they want to take over the WORLD! Bu-wah-ha-ha-haaaaa. Like the catholics before them, the mormons now, etc. etc. You will find lots of religions with phrases like 'sex is giving glory to god' and having children is the most important thing you can do.
Ever really wonder about those sodomy and birth control laws? If you are trying to grow a religious following homosexuality isn't what you want to foster. I think there are some amazing historical records around Roman cities which passed and then repeal anti-sodomy laws depending on their population problems.
Strategist
2016 Aug 29, 7:12am
Have you ever wondered why do you think so many of them have large families?
Cause they want to take over the WORLD!
That we know. But to do so will require a much higher education level. Once they do reach that level, they will dump their rotten religion. That religion is not fit for civilized people.
The Muslims today, are victims of their own rotten religion.
« First « Previous Comments 107 - 139 of 139 Search these comments
The French Riviera resort Cannes was the first to temporarily ban the burkini — full-body swimwear Muslim women wear at public beaches and pools — on July 28, in the wake of multiple terrorist attacks in France by Muslim extremists. Since then, 14 other French cities have imposed similar bans.
The ban drew controversy this week in response to photos showing armed police officers forcing a woman wearing leggings, a long-sleeved top and a head scarf on a beach in Nice to remove parts of her clothing.
Here are five things to know about the ban:
The burkini is technically not illegal in France
The burqa (a single piece of clothing covering the entire body from head to feet) and niqab (a full-face veil with the area around the eyes open) were prohibited in public places in France in 2011 on the grounds that they are conspicuous religious symbols. But the "burkini" — a combination of "burqa" and "bikini" — is not illegal. Cannes' temporary ban expires on Aug. 31.
On Thursday, Conseil d'État, France's highest administrative authority, was hearing a challenge to the ban by rights groups that say they amount to religious persecution and are used for political purposes. Prime Minister Manuel Valls said burkinis represent "the enslavement of women," and the ban should be handled with sensitively so as not to worsen religious tensions.
This debate isn't going away anytime soon
A decision on whether to overturn the ban is expected by the weekend, but a heated debate in France may last well into next year. Former French president Nicolas Sarkozy, who announced this week that he intends to run again in 2017, called the burkini a "provocation" that plays into the hands of Islamic extremists.
An ardent secularist, Sarkozy told French TV on Wednesday that "we don't imprison women behind fabric." Muslims, he said, must "assimilate" and shouldn't "impose their differences on the majority." If elected, Sarkozy said, he will ban every visible religious sign in French universities.
Ban on burkinis are actually good for business
The Lebanese-born, Australian woman who is credited with creating the burkini said sales of the Muslim-friendly swimwear have soared as a result of the bans and resulting publicity. Aheda Zanetti, 48, who runs a swimwear business in Sydney, told the BBC that online purchases of the full-bodied suits were up 200% since July. Zanetti said she first got the idea for the burkini after realizing that Muslim women in Australia were being left out of the country's fabled beach lifestyle. "I wanted my girls to grow up to have that freedom of choice," she told the broadcaster. "I don't care if they want to have a bikini. It's their choice." Zanetti said that Christians, Hindus, Jews and Mormons also bought the suits.
Germany faces similar situation with face veils
The debate over what Muslims can wear in public is not limited to France. A similar debate has emerged in Germany, where more than 1 million migrants arrived last year. and where a spate of recent terrorist attacks have fueled public anxiety and enhanced support for far-right groups.
German authorities are weighing partial bans on face veils in schools and universities and while driving. “It doesn’t fit in with our open society. To show one’s face is crucial for communicating, for living together in our society and keeping it together," Interior Minister Thomas de Maizière said last week. German Chancellor Angela Merkel opposes a blanket ban. France and Germany each has a Muslim population of about 5 million.
Clothing prompts questions about women's rights
Many people see the burkini ban as an assault on Muslims as well as an infringement on a woman's right to wear what she likes in public. There has been fierce condemnation online and in social media.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/08/25/europe-burkini-controversy-france/89325642/
#burkiniban