patrick.net

just_passing_through says

I specifically asked for a yes or no because I expected the mealy mouthed answer you gave.

Duh, my response was to a completely different post. One that you made FFS.

turtledove is deplorable says

I think that Hillary is every bit as evil as ever...

Her crimes are doing things that she thought would prevent political catastrophe. Political enemies subpoenaed all of her emails, after how many Benghazi hearings ? And then Hillary decided there were things in her emails that would reflect poorly on her. Her real mistake apparently was in using email a lot for communication.

So she made a judgement call that she might not politically survive scrutiny of all of her private email conversations. I'm not defending it. But she did it for political survival, becasue she wants to be PResident and really believes she will do a good job for America.

Now republicans who don't want her to be PResident, think that this is machiavellian and even "evil ?" That's a little strong. It's not surprising really. YOu're going to think it's way more evil, if you think that democratic leadership is wrong for the country, than if you think we need to be finally swinging a little bit back toward the middle of the political spectrum. IT's not evil. She just thought she had private email, and later learned that it wasn't. And then didn't think she could politically survive having all of her emails in the hand of her political enemies.

rando says

Trump does seem to lack a word filter, but in some ways, that's a virtue.

When would that be a virtue if he were President?

Ok, fair enough...

Rashomon says

Trump's petty mud slinging

Trump's petty mud slinging? Are you fucking kidding me? Hillary and the main stream media have been running a smear campaign not a presidential campaign.

If you truly believe that there's no hope for you.

I don't think you do.

Ironman says

There is a list of many polls here that you can go to:

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/10/09/polls-polls-polls-so-who-won-the-second-presidential-debate/

Thanks!

Virtually every pole I checked showed Donald winning by 85%. Some I didn't do b/c I didn't want to submit to discus. Then there is PBS.

Yet Rashomon can't admit Donald won.

Just because YOU don't like him doesn't mean he didn't win dude.

just_passing_through says

Trump's petty mud slinging? Are you fucking kidding me? Hillary and the main stream media have been running a smear campaign not a presidential campaign.

Ha, ha, ha. They attack him for the insults HE THROWS AROUND. He just rolled out women pre debate who have accused her husband not her FFS. Very classy. Very presidential. His whole campaign has revolved around insulting one group or another and making personal attacks against Clinton. Seriously, you must be having a laugh if you're trying to defend the way he's conducted his campaign.

The first debate I thought he did reasonably well in the first quarter of an hour when he got on Trade, but then lost it.

Here he was soft the first round or two and then ran the floor the entire night. He took on the mods and his opponent, got massive audience cheering.

Quick Learner.

Unless, there is another force at work.

just_passing_through says

Thanks!

Virtually every pole I checked showed Donald winning by 85%. Some I didn't do b/c I didn't want to submit to discus. Then there is PBS.

Yet Rashomon can't admit Donald won.

Just because YOU don't like him doesn't mean he didn't win dude.

Hilarious. The exact same thing happened last debate. You think he won that? These are online polls. They are representative of nothing except that Trump supporters are more willing to complete pointless online click bait.

What is the definition of winning ? I don't think he technically beat her, if we are just viewing it as a debate. But the way in which he won is by improving his chances. If it looked like he was at risk of dropping to a 0% chance of winning the election with this debate, but he stopped the free fall, and pleased his base, and even improved his chance of winning from 20% to 25%, that's a win for him !

Expectations were so low for him, that just by not completely and utterly failing, it was a win for him.

I'm glad that he's not going to be forced to drop out of the race.

Rashomon says

Ha, ha, ha. They attack him for the insults HE THROWS AROUND. He just rolled out women pre debate who have accused her husband not her FFS. Very classy. Very presidential. His whole campaign has revolved around insulting one group or another and making personal attacks against Clinton. Seriously, you must be having a laugh if you're trying to defend the way he's conducted his campaign.

He talks a lot of shit but yes, he's spread it out widely it hasn't all been focused on her - until now. He came out counter punching tonight and didn't in the last debate.

He hasn't spent near the money on smear adds as she's done.

She's the ultimate source of 'birther' as well - her and Sidney.

Tonight he kept trying to change the subject to policy yet her and her two fucking moderators kept trying to move the topic back to the stupid video.

He cleaned all 3 of their clocks and won all 3 of the debates tonight yet YOU think he lost. Amazing.

just_passing_through says

Just because YOU don't like him doesn't mean he didn't win dude.

And just because you like him doesn't mean he won. I don't like either of them. I'm not a citizen, so I'm likely far more objective than many on here. I'm much more interested in substance, but Trump seems to revel in banal platitudes and insults. His supporters seem to lap up that sort of thing. It doesn't wash with me.

marcus says

What is the definition of winning ?

I bet you say that to the little kids in your school when the coach hands out participation trophies.

I knew some idiot would say that. OR they would accusing me of acting like Clinton talking about what the definition of is is.

Not that I expect you to get it but, check this out. He won, but it's not the same as actually winning the debate.

http://nation.foxnews.com/2016/10/09/heres-who-gamblers-say-won-second-debate

We're not going to have a panel of forensics experts judge who won. Which would be a true measure of a technical debate win. But that's irrelevant. If a week from now his poll numbers are any better than they were yesterday, then he won. But that could happen just because he didn't lose as badly as expected. It's about expectations versus performance.

Rashomon says

And just because you like him doesn't mean he won.

And I said as much in the last debate because I'm not blind and deaf. For the record I don't like him much but I love love LOVE what he's doing.

Keep on living in la la land dude and ignore that he's promised to get a special prosecutor on Hillary's tail if he's elected (+100) and was much more specific about the level of Billary's corruption towards women many young folks here are too indoctrinated to know about (+20).

TKO tonight! Woo hoo!

Good to know you're not a citizen and so your opinion doesn't matter.

This is a win

Poll respondents favored Clinton 57% to 37%, according to CNN.

But 63% said Trump did better than they expected he would.

You might disagree with the first part. But the second part is what makes the debate a win for Trump.

I just got caught up. My take... The Don won. He was a dick, but an effective dick. Hillary had to do more than just tell people to fact check. She has to call or specific lies and say they were blatant terrible lies, and say he should be ashamed of himself. Normally, you might not need to do that, but she let him get away with too much. The carried interest bit was rich. She did win the tax issue, but could have been better. Donald's biggest fear was staying focused and on point (for him) for 90 minutes. I was surprised.
Personally, I think Hillary's answers were more truthful and better. But for the general audience, he just grabbed her by the vag and tossed her across the room.

marcus says

http://nation.foxnews.com/2016/10/09/heres-who-gamblers-say-won-second-debate

Fox = Rupert Murdoch

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rupert-murdoch-loves-hillary-clinton/

But Murdoch would never interfere with the journalistic integrity of Fox News, right?

Rashomon says

That's a bizarre perspective to take. It isn't fighting fire with fire to trot out what the HUSBAND of the actual candidate did.

Not at all. And I specifically said that he needs to NOT make it about what Bill did, but what Hillary did to cover up his transgressions. Several women have said that Hillary bullied them. That's the story that needs to be put out there. Hillary's role in the coverups and the bullying tactics to get rid of the very types of victims she now claims to champion.

Rashomon says

because he trotted out a few insulting lines as if that is what is going to impact the well being of the country

1. because he said a few _truths_ hardly ever heard on prime time TV

2. mostly likely it will not impact the country - too much propaganda and too many idiots

marcus says

Her crimes are doing things that she thought would prevent political catastrophe.

She, Obama, and Bush have done things for which after WWII people were hanged.

Trump did good, he needs to do more of the same in the 3rd, IOW just hammer her.

He is a genius. This was good. PC might finally be buried.

From the transcript, DT: "Iran now and Russia are now against us. So she wants to fight. She wants to fight for rebels. There's only one problem. You don't even know who the rebels are.

I believe we have to get ISIS. We have to worry about ISIS before we can get too much more involved. She had a chance to do something with Syria. They had a chance. That was the line."

Both candidates avoided describing what happened in Syria while Hillary Clinton was the Secretary of State. "The rat line, authorised in early 2012, was used to funnel weapons and ammunition from Libya via southern Turkey and across the Syrian border to the opposition. Many of those in Syria who ultimately received the weapons were jihadists, some of them affiliated with al-Qaida... By the terms of the agreement, funding came from Turkey, as well as Saudi Arabia and Qatar; the CIA, with the support of MI6, was responsible for getting arms from Gaddafi’s arsenals into Syria. A number of front companies were set up in Libya, some under the cover of Australian entities... The operation had not been disclosed at the time it was set up to the congressional intelligence committees and the congressional leadership, as required by law since the 1970s. The involvement of MI6 enabled the CIA to evade the law by classifying the mission as a liaison operation." For further background as to why the Clintons' Saudi sponsors wanted regime change in Syria, read about the origin of invade&import.

Conclusion: The comments by DT quoted above appear accurate, and show that he should not have agreed to Pence for VP. In my opinion, Pence is on the ticket because Lucifer the Canadian Cruzader and other theocrats packed the convention with religious fanatics who can't accept the fact that a religion can be bad. Nearly all of the rebels are religious; the effort to organize a secular rebel group failed, because it couldn't recruit enough fighters. Where DT says HC doesn't know who the rebels are, he's being surprisingly charitable, presuming she doesn't know how many are Al Qaida, Al Nusra, and others equally bad.

Seeing the two of them together talking and being themselves for 90 minutes is an interesting contrast for the American people.

she won first, he won second. third one will be an all out brawl for the gold. Hillary isn't going to be passive in the third round like she was today.

trump lied a lot more than Hillary. As if that is a surprise to anyone not fucking brain dead...

His basic premise was "everything is terrible, the worst ever, I'll fix it and make it great but don't you fucking dare ask me how, cause I absolutely will not give an actual plan, even if you follow up and ask me how..."

so in other words, an appeal to stupid fucks who can't think, like most of patrick.net, and, hopefully not enough of Murika to win...

just_passing_irredeemable says

TKO tonight! Woo hoo!

Good to know you're not a citizen and so your opinion doesn't matter.

The difference is that I don't have any direct chips in the game, so I am not swayed by all the partisan bullshit that is thrown around. You seem to think this debate mattered. I don't. It won't have changed anyone's opinions about these two candidates. The choice is clear. The man you like is unsuited to be president both intellectually and temperamentally. That doesn't make Clinton a good candidate - it just makes her a better one than him.

Funny..... whenever Trump calls her out, she just gets this big ass smile on her face.

Her ass got called out last night. Go Trump.

#triggered

15c5 says

trump lied a lot more than Hillary. As if that is a surprise to anyone not fucking brain dead...

Trump is right. The system is rigged against the American people.
No one wants to come to America anymore. Everyday people are fleeing the country in droves. We need a border wall to keep people in country, so we can continue to milk them.

joshuatrio says

Funny..... whenever Trump calls her out, she just gets this big ass smile on her face.

She's trying to communicate how ridiculous his statements were. I felt like she had to grab the bull by the lower horn, and stand up for herself. She obviously felt it would be better to discount his rants as ridiculous raving by a clown candidate. We'll see how it worked.

joshuatrio says

Funny..... whenever Trump calls her out, she just gets this big ass smile on her face.

It's the same goofy smile she put on through every hearing she ever had.

She was smiling because she knew Comey had it fixed. So she was lauging at Gowdy.
The same way she's laughing at Trump and the American voter because she already knows between the machines being rigged, dead voters, and foriegn voter drive from Soros.
She's got this in the bag. The only way Trump wins is if he can get her arrested in the next 30 days.

So was Bill at the "debate" or was he out on the street looking for girls?

No he was inside looking for girls.

That is the shit Trump needs to hammer Hillary with.

Trump won the debate. It wasn't the final knockout hit the opposition was hoping for. He successfully started to turn and shift the focus away from his "locker room" talk. Hillary only managed typical talking point replies. I turned it off somewhere on Syria.

That said, Trump didn't win any significant amount of votes here. He had the best lines and the worst lines. In reality, last week the election was lost and political support continues to flee away from Trump. There was nothing in last night that changed the game in Trump's favor in any significant way. Hillary will continue to measure 4-6% higher, or more, just as she has done for the past many months. No game changer either side.

Also, in my mind, that was the least debate like debate I have ever seen. The beginning was pretty horrific: some reality TV stunt crap there, to be sure.

Entertaining debate. Compared to the first debate where he got absolutely annihilated, Trump had an improved showing during debate#2. He still reminds me of 4th grader giving a book report to his class for the first time ever and I can’t believe that with all the smart, polished, sharp, accomplished individuals in this country, we are choosing between these two. Few thoughts:

- No question Trump won the zinger battle with the crowd pleasing jail-time and Abraham Lincoln lines. Yes ladies and gentlemen, our country is full of so many bumbling idiots that insults seem to heavily influence the polls in 2016. I guess a significant fraction of our country can better process jabs than they can policy.

- Hillary saying that when people hit below the belt, she will take the high road. Then the very next sentence starting a 2minutes below the belt “Andrew Golota-like” combo onto Trumps nuts, lol. And during this delivery, a house fly lands right on her spackle caked face lol. Get that fly on the Republican committee.

- The Muslim gal asking Trump what he’ll do for Muslim Americans who are just here for a better life… Trump doubles down, looks her in the eye, and spends 2minutes talking about how problematic and dangerous radical Islam is to the USA and how we have to secure our borders, LOL. I thought I was watching an SNL skit. Where was Ashton Kutcher to jump out and tell her she just got punked?

- Trump bringing a team of Bill’s accusers to the debate, wow, truly nothing is off limits during this election. I wasn’t sure how this was going to go for either side but Bill’s face while Trump introduced the women was beyond intense. And of course the media has no shame as they do extended zoom-ins right onto Bill’s grill. Trump was more subtle with the accuser topic than I expected as if to say, “Hillary, anymore of these decade old tapes get released, and we are gonna get explicit with the details”. Again, terrible, like flashing a gun during a dispute. Hillary does have that cold bitterness about her that only 35yrs worth of infidelity can bring on, terrible. She must hate Bill with all her soul.

BayArea says

- Hillary saying that when people hit below the belt, she will take the high road. Then the very next sentence starting a 2minutes below the belt “Andrew Golota-like” combo onto Trumps nuts, lol. And during this delivery, a house fly lands right on her spackle caked face lol. Get that fly on the Republican committee.

Hillary apparently can't get a no-fly zone working.

indigenous says

That is the shit Trump needs to hammer Hillary with.

BayArea says

- Trump bringing a team of Bill’s accusers to the debate, wow, truly nothing is off limits during this election.

Yes. Turnabout is fair play, and people aren't interested in policy or Hillary would have 10% support, all of it from DC and Wall Street and California Tech and Defense Company employees. This is somebody who called the Gang of 8 Bill that would have expanded H1-Bs several times over, a great example of compromise.

It's also interesting the mainstream press has avoided any discussion of her plans to give Green Cards to all Foreign STEM Students graduating from US Universities, "Stapled to their Diploma" - automatically.

A Media that is "All In" for Hillary can't possibly complain after dredging up and focusing exclusively on some shit talking from 11 years ago, that it's not acceptable for Trump to bring in 4 different people, from different places in the country at different times, who all claim Clinton assaulted them.

BayArea says

Hillary saying that when people hit below the belt, she will take the high road.

Yeah, she shouldn't try to use Obama's line. It doesn't fit her, even if she is taking a comparatively high road. If she didn't want to answer directly, she should have said that she refused to join Donald in the gutter where he likes to dwell.

This piece on body language is one reason why I thought she had to grab him by the metaphorical balls at some point and assert herself. I think that the way to do it while not looking like him is to continue to go over her time limit (as the article says). When McSniffles complains, she should state that he used up his and her time by interrupting, and that she was making sure that she got a fair time allotment.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/second-debate-body-language/