patrick.net

"In 1991, DENR provided its first assessment of acid rain in the United States. It reported that 5% of New England Lakes were acidic, with sulfates being the most common problem. They noted that 2% of the lakes could no longer support Brook Trout, and 6% of the lakes were unsuitable for the survival of many species of minnow.

Meanwhile, in 1989, the U.S. Congress passed a series of amendments to the Clean Air Act. Title IV of these amendments established the Acid Rain Program, a cap and trade system designed to control emissions of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides. Title IV called for a total reduction of about 10 million tons of SO2 emissions from power plants. It was implemented in two phases. Phase I began in 1995, and limited sulfur dioxide emissions from 110 of the largest power plants to a combined total of 8.7 million tons of sulfur dioxide.

During the 1990s, research continued. On March 10, 2005, EPA issued the Clean Air Interstate Rule (CAIR). This rule provides states with a solution to the problem of power plant pollution that drifts from one state to another. CAIR will permanently cap emissions of SO2 and NOx in the eastern United States. When fully implemented, CAIR will reduce SO2 emissions in 28 eastern states and the District of Columbia by over 70% and NOx emissions by over 60% from 2003 levels.[28]

Overall, the program's cap and trade program has been successful in achieving its goals. Since the 1990s, SO2 emissions have dropped 40%, and according to the Pacific Research Institute, acid rain levels have dropped 65% since 1976.[29][30] Conventional regulation was used in the European Union, which saw a decrease of over 70% in SO2 emissions during the same time period.[31]

In 2007, total SO2 emissions were 8.9 million tons, achieving the program's long-term goal ahead of the 2010 statutory deadline.[32]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_rain

And for Nutt--

How would a local neighborhood, municipality, or individual stop factories 1000 miles away from polluting the environment and causing acid rain to fall in your area? Boycott? Great--do you boycott every company that has a factory in the Midwest? How do you know which ones are emitting the NOX and SOX?

Jojo

Any relation to Jojo the circus boy?

The answer is the court system. As in class action law suits.

Central to that is private property and making the commons private. This is how you bring back endangered species.

indigenous says

The noble EPA cost the economy 364 billion dollars EVERY year, do they provide 364 billion dollars worth of benefit? I think not, not even close.

Proof other than it's true because I believe it should be true?

Feel free to look up the impact statement for any or all of epa's regulations. It's public record. It's reported to congress. There is a cost benefit analysis for every single regulation that costs more than 100 million. Ronald Reagan made that mandatory. The cost must not exceed the health and environmental benefit.

Mises.org didn't mention that? Shocking I tell you, simply shocking. I can't imagine why that would be skipped.

That makes sense, a report on chickens disappearing from the hen house by the fox.

The element that is missing from your fairy tale is called price discovery it isn't mentioned in any of your reports.

What branch of the government do you benefit from?

indigenous says

This is how you bring back endangered species.

yep, look at all the endangered species coming back in the cuyahoga circa 1969. It's amazing how well species come back in a pool of burning toxins.

indigenous says

That makes sense, a report on chickens disappearing from the hen house by the fox.

I'm not seeing the data you posted. It's true because I believe it should be true.

Another anachronism from Bobby... probably having nothing to do with endangered species

indigenous says

Another anachronism from Bobby... probably having nothing to do with endangered species

It's true because I believe it should be true.

bob2356 says

I'm not seeing the data you posted. It's true because I believe it should be true.

A devout follower of the scientific method, Keynes would be proud.

indigenous says

bob2356 says

I'm not seeing the data you posted. It's true because I believe it should be true.

A devout follower of the scientific method, Keynes would be proud.

I'm overwhelmed by all the support you have provided for your argument. It's so extensive it's just shocking.

It's true because I believe it should be true.

bob2356 says

I'm overwhelmed by all the support you have provided for your argument. It's so extensive it's just shocking.

Back at ya, I'm overwhelmed by all the verbiage you have provided as if that is the truth.

The point is that there is no price discovery for the "benefits" you extol. Clearly you benefit from the government.

"The answer is the court system. As in class action law suits"

Great--so who do I sue? There are probably 10K factories in the Midwest spewing NOX, SOX, CO into the atmosphere causing acid rain somewhere NE of there.

How do I get the data I need to prove that those factories emitted for the last 10 years? I'm sure they didn't test unless they had to and with no EPA, they wouldn't have to.

Lawyers figure it out they always do.

joeyjojojunior says

You somehow believe that it's impossible for a multi billion dollar corporation to buy off a local politician?

You somehow think that statement only applies to local politicians. Again, your savior central government is made up of supermen who are above reproach.joeyjojojunior says

How is it any different to have local people trying to regulate things other than them not having the time, people, expertise, or money?

Again, only people from far far away can know what's best for anytown USA. We all's some bumpkins in these haw parts! We needs fancy gum'ent masser's to tell us sickum from come here! Shucks, if we was to meet in ta town hall we might commence to pluckin chickens 'stead of figur'in out wat ta do 'bout that big compnia tha's making our water smell.

bob2356 says

Proof you are an idiot?

I see you didn't want to include the proof...

bob2356 says

That was a cleanup

So the EPA cleans up by just flushing everything into the nearby river. Isn't that what big corporations do.. wait, but the EPA is supposed to stop...

bob2356 says

OMG there was one whole problem in cleaning up thousands of sites over 40 years.

http://watchdog.org/234655/ga-epa-spill/

Nope, that one just has the best pictures.

bob2356 says

Yea, that worked out so well for so many years that we had rivers so polluted they were catching fire.

No dates, facts, or anything other than your opinion of rivers catching fire being tied to pollution the EPA would've stopped. Well shoot, that's enough evidence for me.

bob2356 says

OK, educate me. Show me the backdoor deals that connect the EPA to the government funding from completely separate agencies.

Crickets chirping, lots of crickets chirping.

Sorry, but this one was too easy, and I wanted to keep you guys on the hook for a while longer since your such big fans of MonsantoPA
http://www.naturalnews.com/042387_EPA_corrupt_officials_money_laundering.html

joeyjojojunior says

How would a local neighborhood, municipality, or individual stop factories 1000 miles away from polluting the environment and causing acid rain to fall in your area? Boycott? Great--do you boycott every company that has a factory in the Midwest? How do you know which ones are emitting the NOX and SOX?

Again, the power to do good rests solely with your Fed saviors, supermen we can never hope to surpass in intellect. Locals are far too stupid to take air samples, or use any of the other fancy tests the EPA has...

bob2356 says

yep, look at all the endangered species coming back in the cuyahoga circa 1969.

"No pictures of the 1969 fire are known to exist, as local media did not arrive on the scene until after the fire was under control."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuyahoga_River

Wow, you are the most blatant liar on Patnet, and that's saying something.

joeyjojojunior says

causing acid rain somewhere NE of there.

Really? I grew up in the Midwest well before any of these studies or regulations you mention, not once did acid rain ever get mentioned as a reality.

Whatever happened to Acid Rain? That claim has disappeared. I thought the reason is that it had more to do with ash from natural forest fires and rotting pine needles making mountain lakes and the upper soil more acidic. Esp. back in the day when there was a "Stop all forest fires" mentality.

They used to bang on it all the time when I was a kid in the 80s.

You know what else has almost disappeared from conversation? The Ozone Layer.

"Really? I grew up in the Midwest well before any of these studies or regulations you mention, not once did acid rain ever get mentioned as a reality."

I think you just weren't paying attention.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/07/020718075630.htm
http://gizmodo.com/after-decades-of-acid-rain-damage-northeastern-forests-1740571183
http://nadp.sws.uiuc.edu/educ/acidrain.aspx

"Whatever happened to Acid Rain? That claim has disappeared"

I just told you. The EPA happened. Title IV and Title V emissions standards on factories emitting SOx, NOx, CO. The reason you don't hear about it anymore is precisely BECAUSE of the EPA and its regulations.

"The Ozone Layer"

Again--thanks to regulations. Two success stories which never happen without regulatory bodies.

joeyjojojunior says

I just told you. The EPA happened. Title IV and Title V emissions standards on factories emitting SOx, NOx, CO. The reason you don't hear about it anymore is precisely BECAUSE of the EPA and its regulations.

Holy shit, you believe everything the government tells you?

https://debunkhouse.wordpress.com/2010/02/23/the-acid-rain-scam/

If you never saw it, don't remember relatives or friends ever having dealt with it, and these are people from the areas where it supposedly happened, then WTF are you talking about!? Does Uncle Sam sneak in through your bedroom window and ass rape you when you fail to meet your propaganda quota?

"Holy shit, you believe everything the government tells you?"

Yes, I believe scientists over some random blog that you posted.

"If you never saw it, don't remember relatives or friends ever having dealt with it, and these are people from the areas where it supposedly happened, then WTF are you talking about!? Does Uncle Sam sneak in through your bedroom window and ass rape you when you fail to meet your propaganda quota?"

wtf. It doesn't exist if I don't see it? Are you kidding me?

But just for you:
https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0LEV0JASppYXlAA8p1XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByMjB0aG5zBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?p=acid+rain+damage&fr=yfp-t