patrick.net

CBOEtrader says

It's not a coincidence that German culture spawned both the Nazi's AND is at the center of today's PC culture. As a society, virtue signalling is far more important than individual liberty to them. Righteousness is more important than truth.It was a recipe for fascism in the 30's, just like today.

Yes, this is a great insight I have not heard before.

I lived in Germany for two years in college and can speak German. Also lived with a family for the summer before junior year of HS. They were totally PC even then, out of a pervasive sense of guilt for WWII. It had not occurred to me that guilt and virtue signaling (by admitting your guilt publicly as a "racist" from birth exactly like original sin) can be powerful controlling forces, but they can. So yes, same shit seems to be going on here, and maybe it explains why the left is acting much more like Nazis than the right this time around.

rando says

and maybe it explains why the left is acting much more like Nazis than the right this time around.

Yes, something like 5% of the left. Meanwhile the entire right (which has been drifting further to the right for decades, elects Donald Trump PResident. (this doesn't seems weird to you ?) Meanwhile the behavior of a tiny fraction of the left has you saying:

"the left is acting much more like Nazis than the right this time around"

Truly stunning times. What the hell is going on ?

The fear and sense of being threatened has driven the right to madness. They are driving legislation of reactionary paranoia, rallied around a belief that terrorists and angry college kids drugged up on kale juice are coming for them.

(Insert picture of 1 poison M&M meme here. Only problem is the picture is short about 3.6 billion M&Ms (1 in 3.6 billion : the odds of you being killed by a refugee), but hey, facts are meaningless. We are running on feelings now. America first! Shutdown the borders! Trump, call up the next world leader to insult! MAGA!)

marcus says

Meanwhile the behavior of a tiny fraction of the left

This may be fair, but where is that same tiny violent fraction from the right?

Check out Professor haidt and consider the blinding nature of righteousness. https://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind#t-6154 "Sports is to war as pornography is to sex." Good stuff.

We are irrational as individuals. As groups, we are pure fucking sociopaths. Every group-think evil in human history had righteousness at its core. Today's left is righteously, gleefully hateful of fellow americans in a way that I've never seen.

rando says

maybe it explains why the left is acting much more like Nazis

Bingo. Watch for righteousness. "Our righteous minds were designed by evolution to divide us into teams, to unite us against other teams, and to blind us from the truth."

As a caveman, righteousness was an important in-group signal. As a modern thinker, righteousness will misguide you.

Today's left is blinded by righteousness.

Take some time & study leftist revolts.

CBOEtrader says

Bingo. Watch for righteousness. "Our righteous minds were designed by evolution to divide us into teams, to unite us against other teams, and to blind us from the truth."

Nice quote.

CBOEtrader says

This may be fair, but where is that same tiny violent fraction from the right?

The right doesn't need a tiny violent faction right now, they are in charge.

Amazing how many people on this board have very selective memories about who had violent incidents and when.

CBOEtrader says

Today's left is righteously, gleefully hateful of fellow americans in a way that I've never seen.

What ?

Only someone relatively right wing would see it that way. The opposite is arguably the case for decades now.

A politically neutral (not left wing) person would have been observing truly bizarre behavior from the right for decades. There is a huge right wing media machine that makes a TPB possible. Have you ever tried to pin the guy down for a logical explanation of one of his beliefs? This is the result of exquisite and constant programming by right wing radio and internet. Brietbart is the most recent version.

You can even hear it from Patrick. WE don't know where he's gotten his nonsensical emotion based views of the smug and extreme left media bias. BOth sides have been in their bubbles for decades now, but the right's bubble is far more extreme.

Now we have TRump, which you might wish to rationalize, but it's clear evidence that I'm correct about which side promotes hate more, regardless of how much Patrick and others grasp for straws to explain it. AS for the violence. It's insignificant, and there has been an emboldening of racism and a few violent events from asshole racists. But the left isn't drawing any stupid generalizations from it, becasue the racists have always been there. They aren't right per se, and there aren't any middle left people trying to make those generalizations. A:though I see the specific cases of racism as motive for Trump frequently.

(continued)

(editing previous comment led to hitting length limit)

It seems like a lot of people need to review how logic works. E.g. right of center doesn't imply racist asshole, but being a racist asshole does imply you voted for Trump. A Flaky teenager only concerned with transgender and feminazi issues that was supporters of Clinton, might even maybe behave violently in a crowd of like minded morons. This says nothing about the other 97% of the majority people that did not and would not have voted for TRump.

I would dare say that racists, and "gleeful" consumers of right wing hate media make up a segment of the republican party that is at least 12 times as large as the proportion of "special snowflakes" on the left.

CBOEtrader says

Check out Professor haidt and consider the blinding nature of righteousness

Yes, I am a fan of his, when trying to understand the other side and the bigger picture. IT doesn't alleviate the disappointment all that much though.

rando says

I lived in Germany for two years in college and can speak German.

Do you like Falco?

bob2356 says

The right doesn't need a tiny violent faction right now, they are in charge.

Amazing how many people on this board have very selective memories about who had violent incidents and when.

marcus says

I would dare say that racists, and "gleeful" consumers of right wing hate media make up a segment of the republican party that is at least 12 times as large as the proportion of "special snowflakes" on the left.

Ideas aren't violence...perhaps you are talking about support for war? The R's and D's have been equally guilty of war.

Show me an example where a tiny fraction of the right has been violent while celebs/pundits/media/twitter-verse righteously cheers them on. That's the dangerous, righteous spark. That's how the Nazis happened.

I have never seen anything as divisive and hateful as this current crop of righteous leftist hate.

Take the French-canadian mosque shooting as an example of right wing violence. I'm sure that nut had an echo chamber of other nuts wherein he learned righteous hate for Muslims...and as scary as that is, its an isolated incident specifically because no one outside his 4 friends in the basement on the right supports that behavior. The pundits/media/politicians all came out and immediately supported the Muslim community and expressed disgust by the violence.

Individuals will always be violent. Righteousness turns us into Nazis. The left is currently drunk on their own righteousness.

CBOEtrader says

That's the dangerous, righteous spark. That's how the Nazis happened.

There's been a dangerous righteous spark on the right for decades. Donald Trump is by far the closest thing we've ever seen to Naizism happening.

Trump's lies are much more evil than people getting self righteous about how much he lies and how willing the right wing sheep are to look the other way.

zzyzzx says

rando says

I lived in Germany for two years in college and can speak German.

Do you like Falco?

I used to like Falco. He has his own unique accent in German. Affected, but fun.

CBOEtrader says

Righteousness turns us into Nazis. The left is currently drunk on their own righteousness.

This.

It is necessary to demonize demonize demonize over and over in order to give people their sweet hit of "justified" "anti-fascist" violence without feeling in the least bit bad or ironic about being the exact thing they are complaining about.

CBOEtrader says

Ideas aren't violence...

Exactly! The right's ideas are the justification for demonizing them, and therefore giving a free pass for violence without guilt.

CBOEtrader says

Show me an example where a tiny fraction of the right has been violent while celebs/pundits/media/twitter-verse righteously cheers them on. That's the dangerous, righteous spark. That's how the Nazis happened.

Your history is very weak. Celebs, pundits,media never cheered hitler on. It didn't happen.

Other than in the right wing echo chamber's imagination I haven't seen any righteous cheering on. some justification, but no approval never mind cheering on.

The right has always had a very carefully managed relationship with a small violent faction, encouraging it while maintaining enough distance to cry crocodile tears when something happens. White supremacists and the KKK aren't watching NPR.

Yet another believer that it's only bad when it's not my team.

bob2356 says

White supremacists and the KKK aren't watching NPR.

White supremacists and the KKK barely exist at all. The few that do are given such colossal media hype and coverage that it must be quite a rush.

bob2356 says

Your history is very weak. Celebs, pundits,media never cheered hitler on. It didn't happen.

In Nazi Germany it was the people who cheered on Hitler. They righteously virtue signaled by demonizing the Jews (especially the bankers and media). The average German didn't know about the death camps, but they certainly knew their jewish neighbors were being rounded up and taken away. They saw Jews as a legit threat to the German people, and therefore hating Jews is what a good German was supposed to do. Germans are a dutiful, capable, loyal, good people... Nazi germany is what happens when good people become blinded by righteousness and fear.

bob2356 says

Yet another believer that it's only bad when it's not my team.

Libertarians have never done anything like this. We hold constitutionally guaranteed personal liberties above any group or ideological loyalty. We are like the ACLU in the 80's who defended the neo-NAZI's right to demonstrate in Skokie...absolutely the right thing to do, even if the content is deplorable.

rando says

bob2356 says

White supremacists and the KKK aren't watching NPR.

White supremacists and the KKK barely exist at all. The few that do are given such colossal media hype and coverage that it must be quite a rush.

Exactly. Are white supremacists your example of righteous hate in the right?

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/yptzsa/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-white-hot-fun

Yeah, try again.

CBOEtrader says

In Nazi Germany it was the people who cheered on Hitler. They righteously virtue signaled by demonizing the Jews (especially the bankers and media).

That was after hitler took over the government. You said it made the nazi's happen.

rando says

White supremacists and the KKK barely exist at all.

Never been to idaho have you? The phrase was tiny fraction. There are way more than enough KKK and white supremacists to be a tiny fraction.

TBC, you still can't show an example of the right supporting violence against other americans.

Admit it, this new crop of righteous violence is uniquely blind and dangerous.

CBOEtrader says

Exactly. Are white supremacists your example of righteous hate in the right?

You are saying they are liberals? There is plenty of righteous hate on the right, you asked of an example of violence.

CBOEtrader says

Libertarians have never done anything like this

Only libertarians are the right? You guys kicked out the rest of the conservative movement? Where did they go?

Still no example of righteously supported violence from the right.

You are lost in your own rhetoric. Its how you rationalize your illogical support of the most hateful, dangerous political movement our country has seen in decades. Keep it up, you are creating more Trump 2020 voters w every head-in-the-sand reply.

The Chicago 4 who kidnapped and tortured a trump supporter were so intensely righteous, that they broadcast their crimes LIVE ON FACEBOOK TO THOUSANDS OF VIEWERS. I have never seen anything like this in the US... and I've lived in every corner of our country: Texas, NY, CA, VA and IL, in both rural and city communities. Never, ever, ever have I seen this level of vitriol and violence spewed at innocent Americans.

CBOEtrader says

TBC, you still can't show an example of the right supporting violence against other americans.

Admit it, this new crop of righteous violence is uniquely blind and dangerous.

You're kidding me, right?

"The right" is The State here in America.
Right wing government
Right wing laws
Right wing enforcement

And the government and the laws, are all set up to terrorize minorities. Ever been in a poor neighborhood before? Everyone lives in fear of the police.

The Authoritarians are rooting for our jackboots to kill our own citizens

And the protesters are the dangerous ones?

You guys need to get out once in awhile

Never, ever, ever have I seen this level of vitriol and violence spewed at innocent Americans.

Try being an American black person who works a crappy FT job, and merely wants to kick back and smoke some grass at the end of a long week of work

The Right has millions of armed thugs in place to kick in your door and murder you for this. Literally.

And they explain away every act of injustice as if it was the victims fault. If only they'd obey the unAmerican laws,,,if only they'd obey the police

errc says

The Right has millions of armed thugs in place to kick in your door and murder you for this. Literally.

Literally Hitler himself will come kill you right?

errc, thanks for providing a perfect example of our current insanity. ladies and gentleman, ^^ this is what crazy looks like. sprinkle in some righteousness and we have problems...

rando says

I used to like Falco. He has his own unique accent in German. Affected, but fun.

When I was a kid I thought it was "Hot Potato, hot potato, hot potato, oooh, rock me hot potato".

CBOEtrader says

The Chicago 4 who kidnapped and tortured a trump supporter were so intensely righteous, that they broadcast their crimes LIVE ON FACEBOOK TO THOUSANDS OF VIEWERS. I have never seen anything like this in the US... and I've lived in every corner of our country: Texas, NY, CA, VA and IL, in both rural and city communities. Never, ever, ever have I seen this level of vitriol and violence spewed at innocent Americans.

And they were apologized for and explained away by CNN "Analysts".

I guarantee you if some rednecks abducted and tortured a mentally ill Black Teen, the MSM and the Authorities wouldn't be saying "Well, they're young, young people do stupid things... no evidence of racism..."

They're charged with a hate crime only because of public outrage - and because, ludicrously, it's hate for the mentally handicapped, not for being White. Even though they repeatedly call him White Boy, not retard or cripple..

rando says

give people their sweet hit of "justified" "anti-fascist" violence without feeling in the least bit bad or ironic about being the exact thing they are complaining about.

Yes. This is so true for all 3 of the 127 million democrats that exhibit this behavior. Bravo Patrick !

bob2356 says

Your history is very weak. Celebs, pundits,media never cheered hitler on. It didn't happen.

Other than in the right wing echo chamber's imagination I haven't seen any righteous cheering on. some justification, but no approval never mind cheering on.

Correct. But I give him and Patrick credit for trying really hard to come up with a narrative that makes libbies the bad guys in this Trump fiasco.

CBOEtrader says

errc, thanks for providing a perfect example of our current insanity. ladies and gentleman, ^^ this is what crazy looks like. sprinkle in some righteousness and we have problems...

Right. Silence the crazy voice that says:

errc says

"The right" is The State here in America.

Right wing government

Right wing laws

Right wing enforcement

Can you say prison industrial complex ? Yeah, we better pressure errc to be quiet. Let him know we think he's crazy for saying that stuff and he needs to shut up.

Wait, how did you say fascism comes about ?

I thought it was the slow drift that many of the people don't even notice. Although it takes some really creative rationalization to see Trump as part of a slow drift.

marcus says

I give him and Patrick credit for trying really hard to come up with a narrative that makes libbies the bad guys in this Trump fiasco

"After a day of getting slammed for that tweet, Silverman followed up by saying she let fear get the better of her:"

http://www.mediaite.com/online/sarah-silverman-walks-back-tweet-calling-for-military-coup-in-response-to-trump/

This is better than Glenn Beck that takes 10 years to walk back the stuff he says, or Rush Limbaugh who never does. I'll stand by this:

rando says

marcus says

I give him and Patrick credit for trying really hard to come up with a narrative that makes libbies the bad guys in this Trump fiasco

CBOEtrader says

We hold constitutionally guaranteed personal liberties above any group or ideological loyalty. We are like the ACLU in the 80's who defended the neo-NAZI's right to demonstrate in Skokie...absolutely the right thing to do, even if the content is deplorable.

And one day hopefully people will talk about how patrick.net did the right thing too, by promoting free speech even if the content is deplorable on either side. :-)

Apoc is Ador is my favorite pat.netter .

You've kept character for years. Is this an art project? I'll bet you are PC as fuck at work, constrained by a suit/tie like an obedient cis/white/male, haha

The women's marches were representative of the mainstream left opposition to trump. They were friendly and peaceful. The Berkley riots were as representative of the left as Dylan Roof is of the right.

CBOEtrader says

errc says

The Right has millions of armed thugs in place to kick in your door and murder you for this. Literally.

Literally Hitler himself will come kill you right?

errc, thanks for providing a perfect example of our current insanity. ladies and gentleman, ^^ this is what crazy looks like. sprinkle in some righteousness and we have problems...

What is crazy about the truth?

Are you denying reality, or just ignorant of it?

errc says

What is crazy about the truth?

The right has millions of armed thugs?

Have not seen them. Where are they hiding these millions?

The Police State is an armed malitia of right wing militants. Carrying out right wing laws for their right wing government.

Have you somehow missed all the calls from right wingers for the police to start shooting the protesters?

I've seen at least four different posters on your site say this.

Local police
State Police
Litany of federal agencies that enforce right wing government right wing laws

Or did you think that the Police State and Prison system are leftist entities?

Who are those crazy leftists protesters clashing with?

errc says

The Police State is an armed malitia of right wing militants. Carrying out right wing laws for their right wing government.

Were the police also right wing thugs when Obama was Executive in Chief for 8 years? What about when D's also controlled congress in 2009?

This is lunacy.