patrick.net

See, there's a reason for everything.

Patrick says

Why can't America do what the Dutch can do?

Because the whole their country would fit between Milbrae and Sunnivale?

Each window seat should have a mount for the belt fed of the passengers choice.
Blow out the glass & kill desperadoes at the same time.

"The present monarchy was originally founded in 1813. After the expulsion of the French, the Prince of Orange was proclaimed Sovereign Prince of The Netherlands."

Maybe our new Prince of Orange can MAGA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_Netherlands

"The Dutch health care system is a work in progress. At its heart is a longstanding national desire to achieve universal health coverage. In 1941, the government introduced a mandatory health insurance plan for low- and middle-income people that provided most of the Dutch population with basic health insurance. Those with higher incomes typically purchased private insurance."

Repeal that crap in america... TRAINS TOO!

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/in-the-literature/2008/may/universal-mandatory-health-insurance-in-the-netherlands--a-model-for-the-united-states

Straw Man says

Patrick says

Why can't America do what the Dutch can do?

Because the whole their country would fit between Milbrae and Sunnivale?

No, that cannot be the answer. If their whole country would fit in a similarly densely populated place in the US, then we still don't have an answer as to why even that small place in America cannot compete with the Dutch train system.

I think the answer is successful lobbying by the auto and oil industries to prevent good train service from being available here. They win, we lose.

rando says

If their whole country would fit in a similarly densely populated place in the US, then we still don't have an answer as to why even that small place in America cannot compete with the Dutch train system.

Cannot compete with what exactly? 1.2 mil daily ridership? What's so special about it? In Bay Area alone BART alone covers third of this number (423K passengers on weekdays). Plus CalTrain with their ~60K. Accounting for population (17 mil there vs ~7 mil in SFBA) the Dutch numbers are really not THAT impressive.

Good point, I don't know exactly how they are counting that 1.2 million daily ridership.

Patrick says

I love trains

And I DON'T like trains, especially for short (less than 100 mile) trips. Go to some central place to gather to get on the transportation. Deal with the people while traveling, then you get to your destination and have to wait to get off, heaven help you if you've got baggage other than carry-on. Now you got to get some other mode of transportation to get to your final destination. No, I like - make that LOVE my car. I go when I want. I don't have to gather at a place other than my home. I am on my OWN schedule not some train's. I can stop (or not stop) where I want, when I want. When I get to the destination I drive right to my final destination, not have to deal with another hired ride. Don't really like or understand trains for traveling. Now if you want to move large amounts of product for a reasonable price, then yes, trains make sense.

Patrick says

No, that cannot be the answer. If their whole country would fit in a similarly densely populated place in the US, then we still don't have an answer as to why even that small place in America cannot compete with the Dutch train system.

Because those areas don't operate in a national vacuum.

I love riding in trains, with the exception of Amtrak. In England, France, Switzerland, Japan, Australia, San Diego (Tijuana Trolley) and Florida they've been fun when I rode them.

The Shinkansen in Japan was fun, and Brightline in Florida is great.

Evidently, only several train lines worldwide actually make a profit.

No problem; we should spend money on nice trains instead of the idiotic space station.

clambo says

No problem; we should spend money on nice trains instead of the idiotic space station.

clambo says

No problem; we should spend money on nice trains instead of the idiotic space station.

Disagree about spending on both. Rail is just not profitable to move humans. I think the space station is stupid as well.

If you're savvy with points you can fly anywhere for free. Well $12 roughly. Orland to Miami I'm there in 1 hour 10 min. The train is 3 hour 30 min. The ticket would be $80 for if not using points. Either way trains cannot compete on these routes. The train tickets are basically the same price at desirable times. Still have to get to the train terminals. Don't have a car so it's all uber/ride share/rental.

A car drive is 4 hours and 40 min. (right now at least) 234 miles. would be $35 in my V8 SUV if I lived down there. No ride share or car rental fees. I rarely promote EV's, but if you get a self driving one that would be an easy drive with no charge needed. No different than a train.

The Brightline won't last long at the prices they have. It's the same thing in CA if they ever finish that boondoggle. It's cheaper to fly if I lived out there. I could fly to SFO to LAX in 1 hour 25 min. and do it weekly. The "estimated" time on a train is 2 hours and 40 min. A bit ambitious as a plane can fly double that speed. Train tickets will be more expensive as well. An airport is a postage stamp compared to a long rail line.

In Europe, most the people that can use high speed rail can walk or bike to the train. It doesn't and will never make sense in America. Boston>NY>DC are about the only corridors that make sense given the population density.

I do think a cross country trip would be fun with a sleeper car to try one time. $2,700 to Seattle though from Chicago. Not sure it's worth it. Maybe do a one way and fly back. I don't ever want to do east coast, but that would be a cheaper options I guess.

WookieMan says

boondoggle. It's cheaper to fly if I lived out there.

Even cheaper to take Greyhound.

WookieMan says

In Europe, most the people that can use high speed rail can walk or bike to the train. It doesn't and will never make sense in America. Boston>NY>DC are about the only corridors that make sense given the population density.

Yup.

https://enotrans.org/article/population-density-and-high-speed-rail/

Has anyone (including our fearless leader) ridden on the newly electrified Caltrain? I hear it is a marked improvement over the old diesel plants.
And it runs on sunshine and wind predominately, with some carbon free hydro and nuclear as well.

Looks like fossil fuels, imports, nuclear and hydro. The date says 7/24/2025. Barely a month past the longest sunlight of the year. The yellow will plummet by November.

EBGuy says

Has anyone (including our fearless leader) ridden on the newly electrified Caltrain? I hear it is a marked improvement over the old diesel plants.

@EBGuy

Yes, rode the electrified Caltrain a few times. It is smoother and cleaner, but kind of lame in a way, almost like a trolly.

The diesel engines were monsters. OTOH, the smell of diesel was sickening, and is probably carcinogenic.

I loved the ancient cars that Caltrain still had when I started riding it in 1999. The linoleum floors and brown pleather seats. Crappy in a way, but more solid as well.

Patrick says

I loved the ancient cars that Caltrain still had when I started riding it in 1999. The linoleum floors and brown pleather seats. Crappy in a way, but more solid as well.

I liked climbing up to the second level. They still have that?

WookieMan says

Barely a month past the longest sunlight of the year. The yellow will plummet by November.

MUH solstice.



Fossil fuel generation (mostly natural gas) is 28.2% and imports (which includes some mystery meat) is 28.6%. So even on the shortest day of the year, it's safe to say over half the generation is from non-carbon intensive sources like renewables, hydro and nuclear.

MolotovCocktail says

I liked climbing up to the second level. They still have that?

Sadly, it looks like they did away with the gallery cars and now just have two separate levels. Caltrain switched to a proof of payment system so the old style gallery cars (see below) no longer offered an advantage for a conductor to do a single pass through on the lower level to collect fares for both levels at the same time.


By User:Snty-tact - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=320939

MolotovCocktail says

I liked climbing up to the second level. They still have that?

I used to ride the bike car, climb up to the 2nd level, lean back and put my helmet over my face to act like I was sleeping when the conductor was coming around. In hopes he'd not wake me to punch my ticket so I could get a free ride. It worked sometimes.

I once tried to go from Paris to Rome on a high-speed train. The price of two tickets were so much higher than renting a car for a week (plus diesel plus tolls) we said fuck it and went by car.

RWSGFY says

I once tried to go from Paris to Rome on a high-speed train. The price of two tickets were so much higher than renting a car for a week (plus diesel plus tolls) we said fuck it and went by car.

I rode the French train once. Couldn't even feel the tracks below. It was like it was flying.

MolotovCocktail says

I rode the French train once.

I rode a French train as well. I remember that in the bathroom the steel toilet bottom was open to the tracks below.

HeadSet says

remember that in the bathroom the steel toilet bottom was open to the tracks below.

I experienced that on a train thru East Germany to West Berlin.

And the toilet paper was shaved wood, not paper. Felt like sand paper.