patrick.net

Rew says

If only Americans can remember that we have signed very bad things into law, when we are scared. Doubt we will be so rational.

Congress did that - not because people were scared, but because Chaos brings opportunity to those who wrote the Patriot Act long before 9/11, and they knew Congress wanted to Signal their toughness. The Patriot Act had broad support in both parties.

"Don't know yet"

You don't know yet?? Are you an idiot? Let's see--Trump is on record for expanding civil forfeiture. He's for expanding torture.

joeyjojojunior says

You don't know yet?? Are you an idiot? Let's see--Trump is on record for expanding civil forfeiture. He's for expanding torture.

Obama's DOJ expanded Forfeiture faster than they did the use of Section 213 of the Patriot Act. Neoliberalism.

As for expanding torture, how many people did Obama's DOJ indict for that? How many MIC Consultants lost contracts?

Trump allowed himself to be 'convinced' very fast on not torturing, eh? It's called Pacing.

So do you agree then that Trump is much worse than Obama?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444813/trump-civil-forfeiture-position-violates-constitution-pleases-sheriffs-who-profit

joeyjojojunior says

So do you agree then that Trump is much worse than Obama?

I have years of Obama to look at. I don't have a month of Trump.

The point you are dodging is that on both Y'alls points about Civil Liberties (Patriot Act) and Forfeiture, the assertion of Rew and yourself are at complete odds with the facts. Rather, the use greatly expanded by ~300% - that is to say tripled! - under the Obama Admin.

You might call the notion that Obama rolled back a bit of the Patriot Act and Forfeiture "Alternative Facts".

"The point you are dodging is that on both Y'alls points about Civil Liberties (Patriot Act) and Forfeiture, the assertion of Rew and yourself are at complete odds with the facts."

Read my posts again. I'm the one that said Obama sucked on civil liberties.

The things is--Trump sucks MUCH, MUCH worse. The fact that you can't admit that is very telling.

joeyjojojunior says

he things is--Trump sucks MUCH, MUCH worse.

In three weeks you know this for a fact??

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/2016/12/02/trumps-assault-civil-liberties-serious-extraordinarily-dangerous
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444813/trump-civil-forfeiture-position-violates-constitution-pleases-sheriffs-who-profit
http://reason.com/blog/2017/02/09/trump-does-not-know-what-civil-forfeitur
http://www.salon.com/2016/07/01/civil_liberties_be_damned_donald_trump_an_enemy_of_the_constitution/

joeyjojojunior says

Read my posts again. I'm the one that said Obama sucked on civil liberties.

I said y'alls points. You brought up Forfeiture, which I demonstrated increased 300% under Obama - that's a fact, not based on an assertion or hypothetical about what Trump might do or said he will do.

joeyjojojunior says

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/2016/12/02/trumps-assault-civil-liberties-serious-extraordinarily-dangerous
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444813/trump-civil-forfeiture-position-violates-constitution-pleases-sheriffs-who-profit
http://reason.com/blog/2017/02/09/trump-does-not-know-what-civil-forfeitur
http://www.salon.com/2016/07/01/civil_liberties_be_damned_donald_trump_an_enemy_of_the_...

Immaterial. We don't have the numbers on Trump yet. We do know under Obama's DOJ forfeiture skyrocketed. Trump's ability to influence STATE law on forfeiture is limited.

"In three weeks you know this for a fact??"

All you have to do is listen to Trump and it's pretty apparent.

Lips--So, you're saying Trump is lying then?

joeyjojojunior says

Lips--So, you're saying Trump is lying then?

Maybe lying - more like pacing. Acknowledging a point, getting the support, and then saying "Well, our War Hero Expert strongly advised me not to torture, and I have to agree with his expertise."

"more like pacing"

How is announcing that he is 100% behind expanding civil asset forfeiture "pacing"? How is appointing the #1 backer of civil asset forfeiture to your cabinet "pacing"? Face it--Trump is probably the worst President on civil liberties ever.

And you voted for him. How does that feel?

But over the past year, the Obama administration has quietly unleashed a multi­agency crackdown on medical cannabis that goes far beyond anything undertaken by George W. Bush. The feds are busting growers who operate in full compliance with state laws, vowing to seize the property of anyone who dares to even rent to legal pot dispensaries, and threatening to imprison state employees responsible for regulating medical marijuana. With more than 100 raids on pot dispensaries during his first three years, Obama is now on pace to exceed Bush's record for medical-marijuana busts. "There's no question that Obama's the worst president on medical marijuana," says Rob Kampia, executive director of the Marijuana Policy Project. "He's gone from first to worst."

-----------

Rew, did you read the link you offered up as proof? It's dated November 30th 2016.

I'm going to judge Obama on eight years of actions, rather than vague and toothless commentary after the fact

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/obamas-war-on-pot-20120216

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.greenrushdaily.com/2016/02/24/dispensary-raids-rise-obama-regime/amp/?client=safari

All this after he was elected by a populace that expected him to end Cannabis Prohibition

errc says

The feds are busting growers who operate in full compliance with state laws, vowing to seize the property of anyone who dares to even rent to legal pot dispensaries, and threatening to imprison state employees responsible for regulating medical marijuana

Pressure from for profit prisons, liquor industry and pharmaceuticals.

errc says

All this after he was elected by a populace that expected him to end Cannabis Prohibition

We also expected him to:

* Be tough on Neoliberal Banksters
* Change our foreign policy
* Eviscerate most or all of the Patriot Act
* Ring in post-racial America

And the most laughable:

* The most transparent administration in History

That prosecuted more whistleblowers and had more charges under the Espionage Act than any President since WW2, even during the Cold War, in a time the US was not engaged in any declared war for his entire 8 year administration

Exactly. Think about it for a second. Once a state legalizes, or decriminalizes cannabis, trafficking becomes less likely a potential offense, by definition!

Not long ago, the bulk of the dried flowers had to be trafficked in large amounts. Now that over half the states have legalized cannabis in one way or another, why would there be a need for trafficking? That charge is attached to large quantities, and there's no longer such a need for the smuggling of such large quantities.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2016/04/obama_s_medical_marijuana_prosecutions_probably_aren_t_legal.html?client=safari

Here is a better metric

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.greenrushdaily.com/2016/02/24/dispensary-raids-rise-obama-regime/amp/?client=safari

Between 1996 and 2013, the federal government conducted 528 dispensary raids on medical marijuana dispensaries.
During Obama’s first term as president, his administration oversaw 270 dispensary raids on medical marijuana dispensaries.
Between 2009 and 2013, President Obama’s administration spent $100 million more cracking down on medical marijuana dispensaries than George W. Bush’s did.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/danfromsquirrelhill.wordpress.com/2016/02/06/obamas-war-against-medical-marijuana/amp/?client=safari

At the end of the day, U.S. and Russia can never be allies - different culture, history, and values. Additionally, hatred of the "west" has been a key part of russian government DNA for a while now. Without the west bogeyman, they would have no reason for existence, just like certain religions require presence of a "devil" to rally the masses and be around. In a western movie sense, the world simply isn't big enough for U.S. and Russia.

dublin hillz says

At the end of the day, U.S. and Russia can never be allies - different culture, history, and values.

I wouldn't say never. The idealogical divide is big, but now we both share a climate of fear brought on by economic problems and both have strong-men authoritarian leaders, not interested in upholding separations of powers, and happy to take advantage of the uninformed to maintain control. ;)

dublin hillz says

hatred of the "west" has been a key part of russian government DNA

We have hatred of the immigrant and muslim here (under the guise of 'crime' and 'terrorist').

dublin hillz says

Without the west bogeyman, they would have no reason for existence ...

I don't believe the people derive purpose from opposing the US, but find unity in it, and that is why the government can use it. The equivalent statement would for us would be, "without terrorism the US would find no reason to exist." Very much untrue.

A 9-12 attack will happen. Unavoidable. My question is always how much will we damage ourselves to prevent/safe-guard against such an attack, and how little will we focus on bigger security threats in the meantime? ("OMG! Rew! You are such a neocon warmonger!")

dublin hillz says

In a western movie sense, the world simply isn't big enough for U.S. and Russia.

The world very much is big enough. We just have an estranged relationship, and the current leader in Russia is happy to navigate the world by re-invoking paradigms of the cold war past because it is advantageous to him.
... ... ...
To all the above, I essentially agree with you, I'm just adding some snark and nuance, cause I'm a pain in the ass. Happy Wednesday.

dublin hillz says

At the end of the day, U.S. and Russia can never be allies

What do we have in common with Australia or Canada? Anyone can be allies when there is economic benefit to both sides.

FortWayne says

What do we have in common with Australia or Canada? Anyone can be allies when there is economic benefit to both sides.

Except for that whole same language, children of the crown, and fundamental cultural/religious/world-view DNA we stem from ... absolutely nothing. You are so right.

Don't they ride kangaroos in Australia?

Rew says

dublin hillz says

At the end of the day, U.S. and Russia can never be allies - different culture, history, and values.

I wouldn't say never. The idealogical divide is big, but now we both share a climate of fear brought on by economic problems and both have strong-men authoritarian leaders, not interested in upholding separations of powers, and happy to take advantage of the uninformed to maintain control.

FortWayne says

What do we have in common with Australia or Canada? Anyone can be allies when there is economic benefit to both sides.

dublin hillz says

Russia can never be allies

Why not, when they have been before? When they have a common enemy (Fundamentalist Islam) and a history of Cooperating in the past (WW2, and also - the Civil War, as well as Russia selling Alaska and quit claim the NW in favor of the USA)?

That's right, once upon a time, France and Britain considered intervening on behalf of the South to drop Cotton Prices during the Civil War. Then the Russian Navy showed up on the East Coast of the USA to pay a visit. Just to "Show the Flag".

The emergent threat, the country that has been #1 throughout most of history except for a narrow window of time between 1750-today, is China. It has strong demographics, grows by big percentages each year, has an increasingly modern military, and landed a rover on the moon.

And yet, you support successive governments that not only want open trade and MFN with China, but aggressively export the offshoring of high tech manufacturing to that Country, all of which is dual use.

It makes more sense to ally with the weaker demographic, who has a shitton of oil, and is the enemy of Wahabis.

Tim Aurora says

We have been in Afghanistan for 17 years with no end in sight. You have to deal with them with astuteness and not force

And yet when Sadaam was the president and when Assad was strong before we meddled -how many jihadis or ISIS calipahate wannabes were there??

Remember that Flynn had worked for Obama as DIA Chief and was fired for not towing the Admin line on the term "Radical Islamic Terrorism" and expressing such taboo thoughts as Islamism was a "Political Ideology" (which it is).
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2017/02/michael_flynn_fired_once_by_a.html

Flynn was targeted by former Obama administration members, led by Ben Rhodes, as punishment for Flynn's remarks critical of Obama's "ISIS is the JV Team" (said just before a major expansion of ISIS over a huge swath of ISIS while the Obama Administration tried to convince the world Al-Nusra led coalition were composed of democratic freedom fighters.) As well as Obama's Iran Deal, which Ben Rhodes was a huge cheerleader for. Rumor was Flynn was going to reveal things about Iran that former Obama Admin Officials would not like out there.

There should be a Congressional investigation into Ben Rhodes.

We lost a huge hero, a smart guy, and a major leadership outlet to Neolib-cons within the Intelligence Community. The nation is actually being sabotaged by a bunch of Corporate Globalists who will do anything to stop a return to Hamiltonian Trade and the switch from Outfield to Infield Strategy, from Arab to Slav.

lostand confused says

And yet when Sadaam was the president and when Assad was strong before we meddled -how many jihadis or ISIS calipahate wannabes were there??

None. Just like Ghaddafyi begged Italy, France, and the US for help fighting Al Qaeda and ISIS, and instead got overthrown, just to turn over half of Libya to Radical Islamic Terror.

All testing the waters to see where he wants to / should be.
He's becoming a politician.
This is pretty obvious stuff...The real question is why you are asking...

joeyjojojunior says

"more like pacing"

How is announcing that he is 100% behind expanding civil asset forfeiture "pacing"? How is appointing the #1 backer of civil asset forfeiture to your cabinet "pacing"? Face it--Trump is probably the worst President on civil liberties ever.

You need to realize that until a politician acts to support a position, their position on the position should be regarded as 'posturing'...

MrEd says

joeyjojojunior says

"more like pacing"

How is announcing that he is 100% behind expanding civil asset forfeiture "pacing"?

MrEd says

How is announcing that he is 100% behind expanding civil asset forfeiture "pacing"? How is appointing the #1 backer of civil asset forfeiture to your cabinet "pacing"? Face it--Trump is probably the worst President on civil liberties ever.

It would seem Trump has some unique ideas about how to make America "great."

marcus says

It would seem Trump has some unique ideas about how to make America "great."

Attack the press, the judiciary, and now "find the leakers" and make them "pay". What a joke Trump is. Our own intelligence agencies are now moving against him. LOL

www.youtube.com/embed/MtZ_IBsdPig

"How dare you call us Fake News after we pushed reports that you gave Russian Hookers Golden Showers, said your Lawyer met with Russians in Prague, and alleged your wife was one of Rin's Cumdumpster Escorts? You're endangering the First Amendment by criticizing our louche stories! We put a little blurb in there they were unsubstantiated, which makes it all okay!

Ironman says

Any chance there are some Obama hold-overs still employed in those agencies?

If all 10,000+ members of our executive branch are now only motivated by partisan ideology, popularity contests, or what's printed of them in the news, America is over.

Why is the Trump administration leaking so bad though? Wonder why they don't have faith in him, or what concerns they may have?

I now see how the, we are going to make the leakers "pay" is being interpreted though. Yuck. The CIA/FBI/NSA isn't red or blue in the trenches, it is red, white, and blue.

Didn't Trump say he got a standing ovation at the CIA? Everyone loved him there.

Ironman says

He has a skeleton crew, the majority of the "administration" are hold-overs from the last 8 years?

I've seen a number of US transitions of power, and none of them have had these sort of optics around them.
By holdovers, what you really mean are career civil servants who have served in both the Bush and Obama administration? Yes. There are many of those. What of it?

Say one thing critical, just one, of Trump. Can you even do it?

Ironman says

Do you really think that?? The thousands of employees have NO political leaning???

Armed forces personnel all have strong political leanings, and there are some pretty raucous debates, but at the end of the day they are all on the same side serving the same mission. That was my experience anyway. I cannot imagine the other service agencies are any different.

I have the same experience, as above, at my current company. It's not like we suddenly stop believing in the core function of what we are trying to accomplish, though we may debate focus and priority some.

joeyjojojunior says

Didn't Trump say he got a standing ovation at the CIA? Everyone loved him there.

You mean his disgusting display infant of the memorial wall? Classy. CIA 'loves' him indeed.

Rew says

Say one thing critical, just one, of Trump. Can you even do it?

He seems to have been paid off to ignore Saudi Arabia's central role in sponsoring almost all terrorism around the globe.

Now can you say even one compliment about Trump? Snark won't count.

"Obviously the war in Iraq was a big, fat mistake," Trump said, launching into a fierce critique of rival Jeb Bush's brother.
"George Bush made a mistake," the billionaire continued. "Obviously we can make mistakes, but that one was a beauty."
"We should have never been in Iraq," Trump added. "They lied, they said there were weapons of mass destruction. There were none and they knew that there were none."

That's about the only sensible thing I've heard emitted out of his mouth-hole.

Trump's platform emphasizes renegotiating U.S.–China relations and free trade agreements such as NAFTA and the Trans-Pacific Partnership, strongly enforcing immigration laws, and building a new wall along the U.S.–Mexico border. His other positions include pursuing energy independence while opposing climate change regulations such as the Clean Power Plan and the Paris Agreement, modernizing and expediting services for veterans, repealing and replacing the Affordable Care Act, abolishing Common Core education standards, investing in infrastructure, simplifying the tax code while reducing taxes for all economic classes, and imposing tariffs on imports by companies offshoring jobs. He advocates a largely non-interventionist approach to foreign policy while increasing military spending, "extreme vetting" of immigrants from Muslim-majority countries to preempt domestic Islamic terrorism, and aggressive military action against ISIS. His positions have been described by scholars and commentators as populist, protectionist, and nationalist.

rando says

Now can you say even one compliment about Trump?

Like him, I would love to spend on US infrastructure. I agree the US has major issues there.
He was able to read Tea Party narrative and push it further. His base is beyond fanatically loyal.

rando says

He seems to have been paid off to ignore Saudi Arabia's central role in sponsoring almost all terrorism around the globe.

Really? Paid off? Do you just mean close coal and oil ties?

Ironman says

In reality I don't need to ...

That was so Kellyanne Conway of you. ;)
Are there any concerns raised by the opposition that you share, any at all?

Wasn't too look ago Flynn was saying "lock her up" and that Hillary was a big security risk. Trump administration very afraid of the Russian optics here, it seems. Interesting.

Also appears Yates may have warned Trump about Flynn before he sacked her.