patrick.net

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

American capitalism has provided us with the best standard of living in the world.

No, it didn't. Commerce, science, and technology did that DESPITE capitalism. There is nothing about separating people into producers and owners and giving all the power to owners that provides for a high standard of living.

The communists had "Commerce, science, and technology" too. What good did it do them? It takes capitalism, entrepreneurship and freedom to take full advantage of science and technology.

curious2 says

And from India, and probably everywhere else, and end the Rx requirement. The Constitution authorizes the federal government to protect patents for a limited time, but adults should be allowed to buy any generic drug regardless of where made.

The CEO of Amazon said the site would sell "anything legal," and IMO that should happen. Medical costs would plummet if ppl could buy cheaply online whatever they need. That is of course the reason why it isn't allowed. Pretenses about "patient protection" are obviously false. Worst case scenario, if an American pharmacy or website starts selling fake products, misrepresenting them as genuine, then the American sellers can be held accountable for fraud. If the seller supplies the item as described, in the condition represented, then that should be good enough.

I am really curious which User Disliked that comment. We live in an era when "Americans skip cancer meds because they cannot afford them", and at least one PatNet User wants that to continue. It takes a special sort of sadist, or at the very least a ruthlessly sociopathic profiteer, to intervene between a willing seller and a willing buyer, whose very life is at stake, and say no. It takes a deeply deluded fool to imagine that prohibition is for the buyer's own good.

Strategist says

The communists had "Commerce, science, and technology" too. What good did it do them?

Evidently quite a lot. China is kicking our ass and taking over the world.

Strategist says

It takes capitalism, entrepreneurship and freedom to take full advantage of science and technology.

There is absolutely no evidence that it takes capitalism, i.e. dividing people into producers and owners and giving the owners all the power, to take full advantage of science and technology. Show me one single thread of evidence to support that ridiculous claim.

Dan8267 says

China is kicking our ass and taking over the world.

For now; china has a lot of octogenarians and over 350 million smokers. If China overtakes US it will probably be due to advances in automation

I would not call China a communist country. I would call it a capitalistic economy with some socialist tendencies governed by an elite one-party system that is protectionist in nature and not willing to share its monopoly on political power.

MMR says

I would not call China a communist country.

Yet it is ruled by a communist party that centralizes planning of the economy including the large scale construction of entire cities.

This isn't an endorsement of communism, but simply a refutation of strategist's dogma of capitalism good, communism bad, no alternatives exist.

The fact is that capitalism and communism are virtually identical economic system and become identical taken to their purest extreme.

Dan8267 says

Yet it is ruled by a communist party that centralizes planning of the economy including the large scale construction of entire cities.

The difference between China and the soviet bloc is that one embraces capitalistic tendencies more

Put differently, what made the Chinese flavor of communism successful where the soviet version failed?

MMR says

Put differently, what made the Chinese flavor of communism successful where the soviet version failed?

The outsourcing of industry to China.

Dan8267 says

MMR says

Put differently, what made the Chinese flavor of communism successful where the soviet version failed?

The outsourcing of industry to China.

Lol, very true!

In the end, only one American will be doing research. That man is Rin because he's financially independent. Everyone else is a postdoc/academic bitch or some industry slave boy.

Dan8267 says

Patrick says

Allow import of prescription drugs from Canada

You can get some nice jet and psycho from Canada.

You can also bonk hoes up in Canada.

The number of people living with HIV in Canada (prevalence) is increasing.1
According to 2014 national HIV estimates:

An estimated 75,500 Canadians were living with HIV at the end of 2014.*
This represents an increase of 6,700 people (9.7%) since 2011.
The HIV prevalence rate is 212.0 per 100,000 people living in Canada.
HIV prevalence increased during the 1980s, slowed down in the mid-1990s, but began to rise again in the late 1990s. This increase is a result of both new HIV infections and fewer deaths due to effective treatment options.
Just over one in five people living with HIV in Canada are unaware that they have HIV.1

http://www.catie.ca/en/fact-sheets/epidemiology/epidemiology-hiv-canada

Rin says

You can also bonk hoes up in Canada.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

The communists had "Commerce, science, and technology" too. What good did it do them?

Evidently quite a lot. China is kicking our ass and taking over the world.

They practice capitalism. 100+ billionaires in the country.

Dan8267 says

There is absolutely no evidence that it takes capitalism, i.e. dividing people into producers and owners and giving the owners all the power, to take full advantage of science and technology. Show me one single thread of evidence to support that ridiculous claim.

The evidence is all around you. Everything man made that improved your standard of living was the result of capitalism. Communism was a total failure. It took less than a hundred years for it to collapse, while capitalism thrives.

Dan8267 says

The fact is that capitalism and communism are virtually identical economic system and become identical taken to their purest extreme.

LOL. ha ha ha. Most bizarre statement in the history of mankind.

rando says

Dan8267 says

MMR says

Put differently, what made the Chinese flavor of communism successful where the soviet version failed?

The outsourcing of industry to China.

Lol, very true!

It's also yet another inherent failure of capitalism.

Remember, capitalism is merely the mechanism of giving control over production and the distribution of the revenue of production to an owner class that does not produces but simply controls things. These owners will always put their short-term financial interests over the financial interests of everyone else, over the national security interests of their country, and over the economic well-being of their society even when doing so will cause long-term financial devastation to the owners themselves. They cannot avoid doing the last thing because of the Tragedy of the Commons. If one owner does not sell out the economy's long term interest, another owner will.

The very idea of running an economy on the selfish and short-sighted interests of the greediest and laziest 1% of the population is utterly ridiculous. Anyone who actually knows and understands the definition of capitalism would not support it. Only people brainwashed into thinking that capitalism is commerce, free markets, and trade support the dogma.

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

The fact is that capitalism and communism are virtually identical economic system and become identical taken to their purest extreme.

LOL. ha ha ha. Most bizarre statement in the history of mankind.

It only sounds ridiculous to you because you do not understand the definitions of capitalism or communism. In their purest forms, the two systems differ in nomenclature only. One calls the owners "party members" while the other calls the owners "entrepreneurs", but they are functionally identical and use the exact same mechanics.

Think about it this way, can you name ANY economic system other than capitalism, communism, and feudalism? No, you can't. There's a reason for that, and it's not that there aren't any other possible economic systems. There are literally an infinite number of economic systems. And yet, you could only name two, and now three that I've mentioned feudalism.

Being brainwashed into the cult of capitalism is not different than being brainwashed into the cult of communism. The owners brainwash the public so that the public become compliant against their own interests. This is why many people, including you, cannot even imagine what an economic system other than capitalism or communism looks like. But hey, go ahead and prove me wrong. Describe an alternative system. Take a few hours to think about it. Still can't do it, can you? That's a red flag.

Economics became a religion in the 19th century and has been so ever since. It's time economics stops being a religion and starts being a science and engineering discipline, subject to the scientific method of empirical verification and good engineering practices.

It's quite a stretch to label 2017 USA as a Capitalist country.

The term Lemon Socialist is much more accurate.

Good luck with that discussion

Dan8267 says

Socialize the cost of research. Get rid of patents. And financial reward the actual biologists and chemists responsible for making the advancements. Cut out the executives. They are just fat.

Usually the research IS socialized, paid for by a government grant. Then the results are sold to a big pharma company which refines them into a product and charges big money selling it back to the government.
Seem insane? That's because it is.
Research costs don't explain this sordid little story...

errc says

It's quite a stretch to label 2017 USA as a Capitalist country.

The term Lemon Socialist is much more accurate.

Socialism is an economic tactic, not an economic system. It is not mutually exclusive with the mechanism of capitalism, even if the interests served by socialism conflict with the interests of owners. There is no mutually exclusivity between capitalism and socialism.

Think about it this way. It is utterly impossible to run any society without socialism. There would be no army, no public infrastructure, no police, no court systems, no funding of any government activity. It would be literally anarchy, an anarchy always succumbs to the first warlord that decides he wants to seize control. After all, there is no organized and funded resistance.

So you could not have a society without socialism, and thus you cannot have a capitalist country without socialism.

Ironman says

How do we import drugs from Canada when they are physically made here in the US?

Lots of generics (where possible) sold by Canadian pharmacies from all over the world, especially India.

Quigley says

Research costs don't explain this sordid little story...

"Research costs" are a lie told to justify policies that are the directly and solely caused by greed. It's big pharma's equivalent of "there aren't enough STEM workers, so we have to import $30k/yr workers".

Dan8267 says

It's big pharma's equivalent of "there aren't enough STEM workers, so we have to import $30k/yr workers".

Yes, STEM is the only area where there's a constant shortage but yet, we have $40K/yr (which includes O/T) postdocs and adjunct profs working for free, all over the place.

Dan8267 says

Socialism is an economic tactic, not an economic system. It is not mutually exclusive with the mechanism of capitalism, even if the interests served by socialism conflict with the interests of owners. There is no mutually exclusivity between capitalism and socialism.

Think about it this way. It is utterly impossible to run any society without socialism. There would be no army, no public infrastructure, no police, no court systems, no funding of any government activity. It would be literally anarchy, an anarchy always succumbs to the first warlord that decides he wants to seize control. After all, there is no organized and funded resistance.

So you could not have a society without socialism, and thus you cannot have a capitalist country without socialism.

In a short time, when most white collar jobs disappear due to automation, there will be a huge cry to end capitalism, the way it is today, simply because there'll be nothing for the average person to do to earn a living.

Remember, most people are not Goethe, Newton, etc. They need some overlord, telling 'em what to do and the current system, where people work on Excel spreadsheets, is the best way to utilize the bozos we have in society. Soon, between Watson, Deep Mind, and whomever else there is down the road, these ppl will be on the street.

Ask yourself why someone like the so-called Tony Starks/IM feels the need to post here, nearly 7x24? It's because w/o some job/occupation to fill his hours, he goes crazy instead of writing a novel, building a sculpture, doing some research, etc.

Rin says

when most white collar jobs disappear due to automation

I honestly don't think this is going to happen any time soon. AI is not nearly good enough.

Rin says

why someone like the so-called Tony Starks/IM feels the need to post here, nearly 7x24?

Because it's fun! And I learn things I didn't know, and sort-of meet people.

rando says

Rin says

why someone like the so-called Tony Starks/IM feels the need to post here, nearly 7x24?

Because it's fun! And I learn things I didn't know, and sort-of meet people.

Last I'd checked, you weren't Ironman/CIC.

Plus, you have work outside of here.

rando says

Rin says

when most white collar jobs disappear due to automation

I honestly don't think this is going to happen any time soon. AI is not nearly good enough.

It doesn't have to be "good enough". It simply needs to do the tasks at hand.

Realize, I'd grown my firm, w/o adding any headcount for years, due to my automation tools. We'd saved everything to hire the best prop trader, instead of wasting money on support personnel.

rando says

Rin says

when most white collar jobs disappear due to automation

I honestly don't think this is going to happen any time soon. AI is not nearly good enough.

Rin says

why someone like the so-called Tony Starks/IM feels the need to post here, nearly 7x24?

Because it's fun! And I learn things I didn't know, and sort-of meet people.

Hmm did you finally slip up on your alias?

Someone had posited long ago that CiC couldn't possibly be a real person, but rather possibly a character created by Patrick to drive site traffic.

Coincidentally, he seems to have greatly lessened his presence ever since Patricks most recent attempt to better the site. And at the same time, Patrick has filled the void by ramping up his own posts

There are no coincidences

errc says

Someone had posited long ago that CiC couldn't possibly be a real person, but rather possibly a character created by Patrick to drive site traffic.

Coincidentally, he seems to have greatly lessened his presence ever since Patricks most recent attempt to better the site. And at the same time, Patrick has filled the void by ramping up his own posts

There are no coincidences

Nope, CIC is real, or at least is not me.

Just like Tovarich Peter. Not a robot. Actually met the guy, and so did Justme.

Peter tovarich is alright, he catches a lot of shit for a mismatched title for a thread, or posting one and never joining the comments, but he has been an asset to your site.

The other one, tvungus, not sure I've ever seen s/he post any comments

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

MMR says

I would not call China a communist country. I would call it a capitalistic economy with some socialist tendencies governed by an elite one-party system that is protectionist in nature and not willing to share its monopoly on political power.

I call it a shithouse. Ended up working in Beijing and Zhengzhou and was appalled at what a scifi dystopian shithouse the place was. You have to get out and walk to see it. A mile out of Tiananmen Square, buildings crumbling, the streets a pockmarked moonscape littered with the elderly and disabled boiling little pots of tar to do shoe repairs, selling cigarettes, etc. The decay and disorder was and likely still is epic.

Very interesting. I'd like to hear more about China.

I travelled a lot during college, and had a similar reaction to Turkey and Egypt. It was like everything that could possibly have gone wrong did. Huge quantities of trash, everything broken or decaying, really spooky. I've heard Turkey has improved a lot since then. I doubt Egypt has.

Dan8267 says

Economics became a religion in the 19th century and has been so ever since. It's time economics stops being a religion and starts being a science and engineering discipline, subject to the scientific method of empirical verification and good engineering practices.

Economics is not a religion. Economics is "The study of scarce resources" It's a social science. It involves a lot of theory and math, but is not a true science.

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

Economics became a religion in the 19th century and has been so ever since. It's time economics stops being a religion and starts being a science and engineering discipline, subject to the scientific method of empirical verification and good engineering practices.

Economics is not a religion. Economics is "The study of scarce resources" It's a social science. It involves a lot of theory and math, but is not a true science.

Yes, it's a social science, however, unlike many social sciences, it's applied as if it's a physical science.

Understand, even psychology is an extension of let's say the medical field of neuro-biochemistry and physiology.

For economics, it's an add-on to let's say political science or sociology, neither of whom are physical sciences.

Ironman says

errc says

Coincidentally, he seems to have greatly lessened his presence ever since Patricks most recent attempt to better the site.

Why did you take me off of ignore?

Do you miss me?

No. Patrick neutered you with the ad hominem rule so no real need for ignore anymore

And I'm open to the possibility that even you might post something worth reading, at some point

Rin says

In a short time, when most white collar jobs disappear due to automation, there will be a huge cry to end capitalism, the way it is today, simply because there'll be nothing for the average person to do to earn a living.

The solution is a modern form of Georgism that includes public ownership of automation. This is, by definition, mutually exclusive with capitalism. The only alternative to this is systemic slaughtering of the masses that used to be middle class workers. That genocide could happen quickly or very slowly, but it is inevitable unless the refinement of Georgism I propose becomes a reality.

rando says

Rin says

why someone like the so-called Tony Starks/IM feels the need to post here, nearly 7x24?

Because it's fun! And I learn things I didn't know, and sort-of meet people.

Rin's referring to Call It Crazy because of his new avatar. Ironically, I am almost exactly like Tony Stark as portrayed by Robert Downey Jr. except more introverted, not as wealth -- of course, I didn't inherent a fortune and a company -- no alcoholism problem, and with slightly different political views, although Stark's political views shifted drastically towards mine in Iron Man 1 and Age of Ultron.

Basically, the character of Tony is an ENTJ whereas I'm an INTJ. Two very similar personality types, although I would have preferred to be an ENTJ as they have more fun and are more financially successful because all our institutions reward extroversion. So the irony is that CIC's avatar is homage to people like me who CIC hates because we are vastly superior to him in every way.

Strategist says

Economics is not a religion. Economics is "The study of scarce resources" It's a social science. It involves a lot of theory and math, but is not a true science.

My point is that economics should be a science but economists, politicians, and the public treat it like a religion. They cling to unquestionable and unjustifiable dogma and simply turn off thinking because they perceive challenging the effectiveness of an economic system as a challenge to their culture. You demonstrate this exact behavior every time the subject of economics comes up. You equate capitalism with Americanism, which is just plain stupid, as if America cannot be great unless capitalism is great. Economic systems should be judged dispassionately and without cultural influences, and they should be changed like underwear, i.e. whenever the need arises.

Ironman says

errc says

And I'm open to the possibility that even you might post something worth reading, at some point

Don't hold your breath.

The first truthful thing Call It Crazy ever posted.