patrick.net

Strategist says

That was a crime, not terrorism.

Oh right, that must be why Aum Shinrikyo is listed as a terrorist organisation...

Rashomon says

Strategist says

That was a crime, not terrorism.

Oh right, that must be why Aum Shinrikyo is listed as a terrorist organisation...

When did the Sarin attack take place, and how many attacks have taken place in Japan since then?
Now till me how many Minutes since the last Islamic attack.

Strategist says

When did the Sarin attack take place, and how many attacks have taken place in Japan since then?

Now till me how many Minutes since the last Islamic attack.

Except you said Japan has no terrorism when in fact it has quite a history of it.

Rashomon says

Strategist says

When did the Sarin attack take place, and how many attacks have taken place in Japan since then?


Now till me how many Minutes since the last Islamic attack.

Except you said Japan has no terrorism when in fact it has quite a history of it.

One example, clearly disputed is not quite a history.

Rashomon says

It's changing quite quickly now, which I guess you'd know if you actually had any experience of it beyond what you search for on google.

Right. I think they took 30 refugees out of 10,000+ all time record applicants last year.

An assertion of your opinion (with no evidence other than anecdotal perception) is not much of an argument.

Japan never has and never will be and most certainly does not want, a Multicultural Society.

"Who stole bike? Ask Gaijin on block first."

Rashomon says

Every single one of my neighbours is a Muslim....

Islam tends to have that effect, because Sharia says to kill and/or persecute the disbelievers. Try telling them you're an atheist and maybe giving them your favorite Dawkins/Hitchens book, and see how long it takes them to rat you out to the religious police. Then decide how "nice" they are.

You can't even tell a smile from a veil.

Rashomon says

I also have a home in Monterey and am looking at a place in Japan.

Since you prefer living among Muslims, you should sell the Monterey place on PatNet. Talk with Bellingham Bill about Japan, he has written of his interest in relocating there.

curious2 says

Islam tends to have that effect, because Sharia says to kill and/or persecute the disbelievers. Try telling them you're an atheist and maybe giving them your favorite Dawkins/Hitchens book, and see how long it takes them to rat you out to the religious police. Then decide how "nice" they are.

You can't even tell a smile from a veil.

Typical Patnet type response from a person who has no actual experience of what they're talking about. Muslim majority countries aren't some kind of homogenous group. There's huge differences between them just like anywhere else. And I've had conversations about religion and no-one has reported me to the non-existent religious police when I mentioned I was atheist.

curious2 says

Since you prefer living among Muslims, you should sell the Monterey place on PatNet. Talk with Bellingham Bill about Japan, he has written of his interest in relocating there.

Yawn. Where did I say that? It's a job. I work around the world. As I said, I've already lived in Japan and visit it every year, so have no need to talk to anyone about relocating there.

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

Right. I think they took 30 refugees out of 10,000+ all time record applicants last year.

An assertion of your opinion (with no evidence other than anecdotal perception) is not much of an argument.

I wasn't talking about taking in Muslim refugees, I was talking about a decline in racism. Anyone who actually visits there can also vouch for the fact there's been a considerable increase in the number of foreigners entering the country due to the shortage of workers in a number of areas. When I lived there, everyone working in the convenience stores was Japanese. In recent years, they've invariably been foreigners. This process is likely to continue given the declining population.

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

Japan never has and never will be and most certainly does not want, a Multicultural Society.

Possibly not, but you could say that about most countries until they were.

Strategist says

One example, clearly disputed is not quite a history.

My example wasn't clearly disputed. You simply didn't know what you were talking about.

The Japanese Red Army...

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

What defense is there for the Wahabinist madrassas?

To me? None. To those funding them, presumably the desire to spread Wahabbism.

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

Where did they come from?

A country Trump didn't put on his ban list, which I'm guessing is your point.

Saudi Fucking Arabia

Just in case it was not perfectly clear.

Rashomon says

PeopleUnited says

Will you defend Islam?

Do you want more Islamic neighbors in your town and on your street?

Err, I'm an expat living in the Middle East. Every single one of my neighbours is a Muslim, and they're as nice or nicer than any neighbours I've had/have in other countries, including the US and the UK.

Cool story bro....My uncle lived in Dammam and Jubail for 10 years and referred to them as animals. Still made decent money but not nearly as much as he did by coming to NJ with the quality of life he has today.

Rashomon says

It's changing quite quickly now, which I guess you'd know if you actually had any experience of it beyond what you search for on google.

Not quickly enough to help take in refugees from Middle East

PeopleUnited says

So you don't like people who disagree with you? We know Marcus. But will you defend Islam?

Actually I enjoy arguing with people who know how to support their point of view without making it about me, like this: "So you don't like people who disagree with you? We know Marcus."

That's actually an ad hominem, but not one that I think you should be docked for.

Why is your question any more deserving of an answer than these.

marcus says

I would be interested in arguments for the merits of being overweight and/or why any thin would consider it a good thing if more overweight people lived in their town or neighborhood.

I would be interested in arguments for the merits of nerds and/or why any non-nerd would consider it a good thing if more nerds lived in their town or neighborhood.

I would be interested in arguments for the merits of being white and/or why any non-white people would consider it a good thing if more white people lived in their town or neighborhood.

I would be interested in arguments for the merits of gun ownership and/or why any non-gun owners would consider it a good thing if more gun owners lived in their town or neighborhood.

etc., etc., etc.

Rashomon says

Err, I'm an expat living in the Middle East. Every single one of my neighbours is a Muslim, and they're as nice or nicer than any neighbours I've had/have in other countries, including the US and the UK.

How nice would they be to me if:
I told them I was an atheist.
Mohammad was a child rapist.
Stoning a woman to death was for barbarians.

Like personalities repel one another. Some people just need to have someone or some group to hate.

marcus says

Why is your question any more deserving of an answer than these.

marcus says

I would be interested in arguments for the merits of being overweight and/or why any thin would consider it a good thing if more overweight people lived in their town or neighborhood.

I would be interested in arguments for the merits of nerds and/or why any non-nerd would consider it a good thing if more nerds lived in their town or neighborhood.

I would be interested in arguments for the merits of being white and/or why any non-white people would consider it a good thing if more white people lived in their town or neighborhood.

I would be interested in arguments for the merits of gun ownership and/or why any non-gun owners would consider it a good thing if more gun owners lived in their town or neighborhood.

etc., etc., etc.

Not very interesting.
Islamic barbarism and the threats they pose to the world is a lot more exciting.

marcus says

Like personalities repel one another. Some people just need to have someone or some group to hate.

I hate all groups that abuse human rights. So should you.

I hate incorrect generalizations, so should you.

Those people aren't going to behave better when you shun them from the economies of the world for decades and then centuries. That will make them stronger in their conviction that we are the evil ones. The number of moderate Muslims in secular countries needs to keep on increasing. As these people gain some degree of success and wealth it will eventually be seen as the smart path.

I'm not totally opposed to pressuring the moderate Muslims that this is partly their problem to solve. But at the same time the moderates need to grow.

This isn't rocket science. Either they change or eventually there is great war. Forcing the issue based on hate is not the answer. I'm surprised this isn't more obvious to you and so many others.

marcus says

I hate incorrect generalizations, so should you.

Those people aren't going to behave better when you shun them from the economies of the world for decades and then centuries. That will make them stronger in their conviction that we are the evil ones.

No it won't. If you want to end bad and barbaric practices, you have to speak out first.
We ended slavery because people spoke out and even risked their lives to end it.
We stopped burning witches because people spoke out against the practice.
Why do you think Islamic barbarism is any different?

Strategist says

Why do you think Islamic barbarism is any different?

I don't. In fact I think you're right. We ourselves changed slavery.

The Islamic world needs to reject Jihadism or Islamism or whatever you want to call it. Increasing the number of moderates (the internal force that will reject the crazy fundamentalism) is what I say is required. Did you read the rest of my comment you quoted ? When you hate someone simply for being Islamic, you're part of the problem, not part of the solution. Moderate Islam wsould be cultivated and helped to grow wherever possible.

I don't think what we did in Iraq helped much.

marcus says

Increasing the number of moderates (the internal force that will reject the crazy fundamentalism) is what I say is required.

Stop fighting Germany, stop bombing them. Just try to grow the number of moderates in the third Reich.

Radical Islamism started up in the 30s (and there's a history of Waves of Islamic Intolerance going back to the 800s AD). It's been getting stronger every decade. The Gulf States spend billions building madrassahs and Islamist Schools all over the world. You see burkas and chadors in places you never saw them 30-40 years ago.

That's why the first thing the Saudis wanted to do to "Help" Germany and Sweden with Refugees was to build Mosques and Madrassahs.

Really ? I'll leave the argument with that absurdity to you. You know better. Hint: Fundamentalist Islam isn't a nation state we are at war with. But fundamentalist Islam wants us to be at war with Islam. They know that they win in that case.

marcus says

Strategist says

Why do you think Islamic barbarism is any different?

I don't. In fact I think you're right. We ourselves changed slavery.

The Islamic world needs to reject Jihadism or Islamism or whatever you want to call it. Increasing the number of moderates (the internal force that will reject the crazy fundamentalism) is what I say is required. When you hate someone simply for being Islamic, you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I agree we need more moderate Muslims. Forcefully speaking out against sharia laws is one way of convincing them to become moderates.
You think they will evolve into becoming moderates? Hasn't happened in the last 1,400 years.

People who migrate to the West are MORE likely to be radicalized than those that live in the Middle East. Especially the 2nd Generation.

I think cultivating moderate Islamic populations in Europe and the U.S. will help a lot. That's what I'm talking about. The Islamophobia that you preach makes that impossible.

Strategist says

Hasn't happened in the last 1,400 years.

Unlike another major religion, that has became very much so more moderate in the past few hundred years.

Many Modern Materialist Liberals can't get their hands around TRUE alternative forms of living that involve more than sexual proclivities.

Like the Italian Chick that got raped hitchhiking for peace through the mideast - before she left the first country she started in.

marcus says

Fundamentalist Islam isn't a nation state we are at war with. But fundamentalist Islam wants us to be at war with Islam. They know that they win in that case.

We are at war with fundamentalist Islam, just like the rest of the world including moderate Muslims.

Rashomon says

And I've had conversations about religion and no-one has reported me to the non-existent religious police when I mentioned I was atheist.

If they don't have religious police, then that narrows down the list to only a subset of Muslim countries. How about vigilante Sharia Patrols?

Anyway, secret confession without providing evidence doesn't show much courage on your part. Can you buy Dawkins or Hitchens books in the country where you live? Try buying one, get your fingerprints on it, and give it to one of your Muslim "friends". See how they handle physical evidence.

marcus says

I think cultivating moderate Islamic populations in Europe and the U.S. will help a lot. That's what I'm talking about. The Islamophobia that you preach makes that impossible.

So what's your plan to create moderate Muslims. It obviously does not include speaking out.

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

People who migrate to the West are MORE likely to be radicalized than those that live in the Middle East. Especially the 2nd Generation.

Total bullshit example of statistics lying. If it doesn't happen at all in some Islamic countries and it happens 3 times in England, I guess it's infinitely more likely for migrants to be radicalized. So ?

curious2 says

Anyway, secret confession without providing evidence doesn't show much courage on your part. Can you buy Dawkins or Hitchens books in the country where you live? Try buying one, get your fingerprints on it, and give it to one of your Muslim "friends". See how they handle physical evidence.

Ha ha. He will come back in two body bags. One for the head.

Strategist says

So what's your plan to create moderate Muslims. It obviously does not include speaking out.

I'm fine with speaking out intelligently in was that promote the goal. But not in ways that promote the goal of mutual hate. My plan would be to try not to ostracize all American Muslims or treat them all as if they are evil.

Strategist says

How nice would they be to me if:

I told them I was an atheist.

Mohammad was a child rapist.

Stoning a woman to death was for barbarians.

Is that what you call speaking out in a productive way ? Or is it just Trumpeter virtue signaling. Some twisted new form of political correctness inside of your political group ?

marcus says

Strategist says

So what's your plan to create moderate Muslims. It obviously does not include speaking out.

I'm fine with speaking out intelligently in was that promote the goal. But not in ways that promote the goal of mutual hate. My plan would be to try not to ostracize all American Muslims or treat them all as if they are evil.

You must treat their beliefs as evil. You will not convince them otherwise.
We did not end slavery without calling it evil, being PC, or being nice to them.

PeopleUnited says

Defend Islam

There has never been an Islamic terrorist. After all, the Quran says to love they neighbor, so any terrorist is no true Scottsman, er, Muslim. Yeah, that's the ticket. If that excuse works for Christianity, it works for Islam.

Strategist says

How nice would they be to me if:

I told them I was an atheist.

Mohammad was a child rapist.

Stoning a woman to death was for barbarians.

1. They haven't cared so far...
2. I don't think they'd appreciate it.
3. I expect they'd agree.

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

Stop fighting Germany, stop bombing them. Just try to grow the number of moderates in the third Reich.

Lol, perfect analogy!

marcus says

Fundamentalist Islam isn't a nation state we are at war with. But fundamentalist Islam wants us to be at war with Islam.

Actually, Fundamentalist Islam does think of itself as a nation state. It's the "ummah".

And like it or not, it has already declared religious war on the rest of the world.

curious2 says

Anyway, secret confession without providing evidence doesn't show much courage on your part. Can you buy Dawkins or Hitchens books in the country where you live? Try buying one, get your fingerprints on it, and give it to one of your Muslim "friends". See how they handle physical evidence.

I don't even know what that is supposed to mean, 'secret confession.'
And we live in the age of the internet. Anyone can get hold of those books simply by going to Amazon. I have Hitchens, Dawkins and Harris on my Kindle. Nothing stopping others from doing the same if they so wish.

rando says

Lol, perfect analogy!

Lol, indeed.