patrick.net

Rashomon says

And do you believe that video is proof of what Trump tweeted?

It depends on how they are defining the scope of the terms. probably not though. "Proof" is the content creator's clickbait term. "Evidence" or "support" is more accurate.

IMO, Obama knew everything regarding Trump and/or Russia. What do you know about the October FISA order to which these pundits refer? Somewhere in the details of that order (or lack therof if this is fake news) is the answer.

CBOEtrader says

"Proof" is the content creator's clickbait term. "Evidence" or "support" is more accurate.

You posted the video. You wrote the title...

And again, it's not evidence or support as Hannity and Levin are clearly conflating two different things in an effort to mislead the listener.

Rashomon says

You wrote the title...

I copied the title on a video that showed the publicly known evidence. I just edited the title. Better?

CBOEtrader says

I copied the title on a video that showed the publicly known evidence. I just edited the title. Better?

No, because it's clearly not evidence. There is nothing new in that video except a deliberate effort to misrepresent.

Do you really think Obama didn't know about the FISA orders? Or the investigations into Russia and Trump?

CBOEtrader says

Do you really think Obama didn't know about the FISA orders? Or the investigations into Russia and Trump?

Sigh. Whether there is an actual FISA order is yet to be proven. And so what if he did know about this supposed FISA order on Russian banks? Why shouldn't he? It's a pretty important issue, wouldn't you say?
And once again, that isn't Obama ordering a wiretap against Trump, is it? Isn't that what Trump claimed?

PCGyver says

the question is where is the evidence that Trump towers was tapped?

It's true because I believe it should be true is all the evidence ever needed for CBO. What don't you guys get about that?

PCGyver says

CBOEtrader says

Do you really think Obama didn't know about the FISA orders? Or the investigations into Russia and Trump?

That is not the question, the question is where is the evidence that Trump towers was tapped?

The infamous flynn conversation was tapped on a trump towers line. Right or wrong?

Rashomon says

CBOEtrader says

Do you really think Obama didn't know about the FISA orders? Or the investigations into Russia and Trump?

Sigh. Whether there is an actual FISA order is yet to be proven. And so what if he did know about this supposed FISA order on Russian banks? Why shouldn't he? It's a pretty important issue, wouldn't you say?

We agree. Obama knew about trump/Russia investigations.

Lets review what we know: 1)phone calls at trump towers were tapped. 2)Obama knew about it.

We'll have to wait for more facts on the rest.

The circumstantial evidence looks bad. I'm willing to refrain judgement until we know more.

CBOEtrader says

The infamous flynn conversation was tapped on a trump towers line. Right or wrong?

Buzzzt. Wrong.

CBOEtrader says

Lets review what we know: 1)phone calls at trump towers were tapped..

Buzzzt. Wrong.

Wait, wasn't this the administration that wiretapped the AP, searched James Risen's parents house, and prosecuted more whistleblowers than all the Presidents since WW2?

What did Obama know and when did he know it?

Ironman says

Is that the same as saying there was a conversation with aides about wiretapping versus the aides themselves being tapped??

Been smoking the captains dope? You are making less than your usual zero sense.

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

What did Obama know and when did he know it?

He's now required to state when/where/why FISC allows such a request in an ongoing investigation? Why?

Ironman says

It must suck to be so wrong all the time.

You would be the most experienced expert in the world on that subject.

Again, where does that say that Trump and his aides were wiretapped or that Obama ordered it for that matter? If FISC, a court, allows a wiretap on Russian banks, and that throws up links to aides in the Trump camp, then why does that seemingly not concern you? And why shouldn't Obama be informed about it?

PCGyver says

all these Trump supporters just shitin their pants and grasping at straws

...and cum swapping their delusions...

Rashomon says

Again, where does that say that Trump and his aides were wiretapped or that Obama ordered it for that matter? If FISC, a court, allows a wiretap on Russian banks, and that throws up links to aides in the Trump camp, then why does that seemingly not concern you? And why shouldn't Obama be informed about it?

FISA pleas are done by the DoJ. There's no way Obama didn't know. No ass covering DoJ employee is going to take the case involving a political candidate to the FISA court without clearing it with the WH first. Also, the WH gets regular reports on filings anyway.

The first one was too broad, and was one of those very rare rejections (what is it? 1%) by the FISA court. The second was far narrower.

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

FISA pleas are done by the DoJ. There's no way Obama didn't know. No ass covering DoJ employee is going to take the case involving a political candidate to the FISA court without clearing it with the WH first. Also, the WH gets regular reports on filings anyway.

The first one was too broad, and was one of those very rare rejections (what is it? 1%) by the FISA court. The second was far narrower.

So? Again, why shouldn't he know about it? It's potentially very important, and from what has been reported, FISC must have seen enough evidence to allow it to go ahead. And once again, this is NOT what trump claimed.

Rashomon says

And once again, this is NOT what trump claimed.

How so?

We know conversations in trump towers were recorded. We know Obama had full knowledge of it.

Everything else needs clarification.

CBOEtrader says

How so?

We know conversations in trump towers were recorded. We know Obama had full knowledge of it.

Conversations in the Russian embassy were recorded. The Russian embassy isn't in trump towers. Sorry you didn't know that.

CBOEtrader says

Rashomon says

And once again, this is NOT what trump claimed.

How so?

You're joking, right? Remind us all again what it was that Trump tweeted. Oh, that's right:
"Terrible! Just found out that (former president Barack) Obama had my 'wires tapped' in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!"
"Is it legal for a sitting President to be 'wire tapping' a race for president prior to an election? Turned down by court earlier. A NEW LOW!"
"I'd bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October, just prior to Election!"
"How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!"

CBOEtrader says

We know conversations in trump towers were recorded. We know Obama had full knowledge of it.

Good grief, you're not even cognisant of the information being reported. Since when do you know conversations in Trump Towers were being recorded?
a. The reports specifically say that the wiretaps were on Russian institutions NOT Trump Towers.
b. We don't know Obama had full knowledge, but a reasonable presumption to make is that he had knowledge of the FISA order to wiretap Russian targets.

CBOEtrader says

Everything else needs clarification.

Apparently, everything needs clarification for you.

And then, as if on cue, #Vault7 comes out.

The God of Irony, Kek, the Cosmic Joker -- is working on Trump's behalf yet again

We need an investigation: What did Lynch and Obama know, and when did they know it?

Obama was a surveillance state authoritarian with good PR and very tough on bad leaks while encouraging good leaks. Every aspect of the police state grew under Obama.

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

We need an investigation: What did Lynch and Obama know, and when did they know it?

We do? Did you want an investigation into all those Russia links that sprung up? I don't recall.

Rashomon says

We do? Did you want an investigation into all those Russia links that sprung up? I don't recall.

I'm sorry, didn't the wiretaps reveal no connection between Trump Aides and Russia, and hasn't the Media and IC been investigating Trump for more than a year with bupkiss to show for it?

Now, we need to know why a President was investigating the surrogates of a political opponent, and be sure there was a good reason, not just a fishing expedition. Using the Patriot Act against candidates is a major big deal, not something to be done lightly.

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

I'm sorry, didn't the wiretaps reveal no connection between Trump Aides and Russia, and hasn't the Media and IC been investigating Trump for more than a year with bupkiss to show for it?

You're joking right? How many months has this Russia issue been running? When did you make an equivalent call for an investigation into something so potentially serious? Like I said, I don't recall, but I presume you must have given your eagerness for an investigation now.

bob2356 says

The Russian embassy isn't in trump towers. Sorry you didn't know that.

Flynn was in Trump Towers during his infamous conversation. Fact.

Rashomon says

CBOEtrader says

Everything else needs clarification.

Apparently, everything needs clarification for you.

You assume you know things you can not possibly know. Unless you are a spy.

Are you a spy Rash? Otherwise, lets all admit that we dont know most of the relevant facts in this case.

Rashomon says

Good grief, you're not even cognisant of the information being reported.

What am I missing? For the record, I openly ASK for people to tell me what I'm missing in my posts. I would never pretend to know all the facts. Thats impossible. Admitting that you dont know everything is the first step towards the truth. You should try it.

Rashomon says

Did you want an investigation into all those Russia links that sprung up? I don't recall.

We've already had one. No evidence of Trump or any american collaborating with russia was found. Paul Ryan was very clear on this.

CBOEtrader says

We know conversations in trump towers were recorded.

Were bugs placed in Trump Towers or in Trump Towers phones? If so, how do we know this?

Here's what we know: Sessions is either somewhat senile or he lied his ass off in congressional testimony while denying his conversations with the Russian Ambassador. That's the news. This bullshit about a phone tapp (sic) is just that: bullshit.

CBOEtrader says

We've already had one. No evidence of Trump or any american collaborating with russia was found. Paul Ryan was very clear on this.

We're just getting started. It takes time to get to the bottom of things. Little threads here and there justify more investigating. Eventually, people start to talk giving a few more threads to pull. People lying and engaging in bullshittery theatrics just provides more threads to pull.

Not sure why some doubt it COULD be true.
At the time of the possible wiretaps, Trump was a private citizen, albeit running for president. No more protected than the average joe in the street. (Which is ZERO)
Once the listening tech is in place... (if it is) and Trump just happens to win.

You MAY have listening tech gathering info at Trump Tower (offsite home of most antagonistic president is a long time)

Do you really think they just say... "Oh ok, turn it all off, he's now president... let's go home"
Cummone!! (of course we don't know for a fact that they were gathering data on Trump, but there is some proof and weirder shit has happened in the past)

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

Obama was a surveillance state authoritarian with good PR and very tough on bad leaks while encouraging good leaks. Every aspect of the police state grew under Obama.

The left sticks their collective head in the sand when you speak truth like this. This ever expanding federal police state overreach is a huge threat to the american people, and the world. Obama spied on everyone and everything. He is GW Bush 2.0. Hillary would have been GW Bush 3.0.

Thanks god for Trump. Thank god people are waking up

This YesYNot says

Sessions is either somewhat senile or he lied his ass off in congressional testimony while denying his conversations with the Russian Ambassador.

Only a deeply partisan person would read that into Sessions statement. Watch the clip. His response was perfectly reasonable. The idea that Sessions was hiding Russian collusion via a publicly known meeting is absolute fantasy. Utter nonsense.

YesYNot says

Eventually, people start to talk giving a few more threads to pull.

This mob justice tactic has never worked. Vault 7 calls every supposed Russian hack into question. This entire thing looks like it was fabricated as a power grab. Hopefully we do know the truth soon...

Trump's tweets suggest he may be onto something. We shall see

YesYNot says

CBOEtrader says

We've already had one. No evidence of Trump or any american collaborating with russia was found. Paul Ryan was very clear on this.

We're just getting started.

yeah, but if they dont have enough probably cause to move forward, they cant. The FISA is .02%. It is a pure rubber stramp. To move forward they require evidence which reportedly they do not have.

YesYNot says

Were bugs placed in Trump Towers or in Trump Towers phones? If so, how do we know this?

Depending on what you mean, yes and no. Like most of today's political discussions, the arguments are largely team-based semantic BS.

BUGS aren't used these days. Neither are wires tapped. Those are colloquialisms for monitoring activities. According to Vault 7 all phone digital information is saved and available to transcription. So yes, Trump Towers calls would be available to the NSA/CIA w a simple FISA order to investigate Russia hacking, depending on the scope of the order. Am i missing something? Given the .02% rubber stamp process and the nature of this Trump/Russia investigation, one can reasonable assume they listened and/or transcribed many Trump Towers conversations.

So yeah, Trump Towers was bugged. We'll know more soon enough.

I'll bet $$ its the CIA and/or Obama administration officials who fall, not Trump.

CBOEtrader says

BUGS aren't used these days. Neither are wires tapped. Those are colloquialisms for monitoring activities.

Buzzt wrong.

Wiretap has a very specific legal meaning. See Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 (18 U.S.C.A. § 2510 et seq. and Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA), 8 U.S.C.A. § 2701 et seq and usa patriot act, Pub. L. No. 107-56, 115 Stat. 272 (2001).

bugs are most certainly used, now more than ever. google sweeping for bugs and see how many thousands of hits there are for bug sweeping devices.

CBOEtrader says

So yes, Trump Towers calls would be available to the NSA/CIA w a simple FISA order to investigate Russia hacking, depending on the scope of the order. Am i missing something?

You've seen this fisa order? You are saying it specifically names trump tower and trumps lines? Can you post it for us? That would be great, thanks.

bob2356 says

Wiretap has a very specific legal meaning.

Wiretaps may have a legal meaning stemming from a bygone era. That doesnt change the fact that wire taps are not how monitoring is done by our government.

bob2356 says

CBOEtrader says

BUGS aren't used these days. Neither are wires tapped. Those are colloquialisms for monitoring activities.

Buzzt wrong.

bob2356 says

bugs are most certainly used, now more than ever. google sweeping for bugs and see how many thousands of hits there are for bug sweeping devices.

Sure, a jealous husband may use a bug.

The government doesn't need or use that shit anymore. Your phone, computer, and TV are all "bugged" already. Some judge rubber stamps an order, and voila, all your conversations are available to them.

bob2356 says

You've seen this fisa order? You are saying it specifically names trump tower and trumps lines? Can you post it for us? That would be great, thanks.

Not much besides hearsay has been released to the public. The wiretaps/investigations have been referenced with most details still unknown... but i think you know that. Always the troll i suppose

CBOEtrader says

Are you a spy Rash? Otherwise, lets all admit that we dont know most of the relevant facts in this case.

You seem to know enough to assert that it's true what Trump said and fake news about Russia...
CBOEtrader says

What am I missing? For the record, I openly ASK for people to tell me what I'm missing in my posts. I would never pretend to know all the facts.

Ha. You've been claiming all along that Russia is fake news and what Trump claims is fact. You don't even seem to realise that none of the reports state Trump and his aides were wiretapped - they say Russians were targeted. You can't even get that basic piece of reporting in order FFS.
The obvious point is that we don't know all the facts yet, so you can't make definitive claims. You, however, are doing just that.

CBOEtrader says

We've already had one. No evidence of Trump or any american collaborating with russia was found. Paul Ryan was very clear on this.

That wasn't what I asked, was it?