patrick.net

www.bTDGdKaMDhQ

We've been taught to feel very good about the fact that many of our societies are now apparently 'meritocracies.' But the concept of meritocracy is - from close up - rather more peculiar than modern politicians make out.

www.Ds_hg40utKY

We tend to look patronisingly at people convinced they might win the lottery. But we often harbour equally misguided hopes for our romantic and professional lives.

It is a fact that College Graduates who enter a hot market generally outperform in salary and promotions vs. those who graduate into a weak economy over a lifetime.

As I always say, If everybody was an MD, MDs would make the minimum wage and star surgeons and other genius medical practicioners would only make a bit more than that.

Dont agree.

Its 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration.

Republics have to hustle, work hard, fail to be noticed.

Now we have a society that everyone wants to bargain and have good negotiation skills, but US workers have less skills due to NAFTA and the burgeoning humanities and arts degrees.

China may be communist, but they have a great educational system, and they work hard and hustle. Sort of the like the US from 1930-1980s.

What NAFTA did to our jobs, workforce, and mentality is unspeakable.

I'd stopped believing in meritocracy, after seeing so many STEM PhDs/postdocs w/o a future career and after having started in financial services, where it was apparent that half the ppl in the area were a bunch of dolts. And don't get me started on management consulting. The only reason why MC even exists is because C-level execs are afraid to take the heat for their decisions so they use strategy firms to make their decisions for them.

Napoleon, when told the virtues of a new General, eg. the man's heroism, bravery, skill in battle and so on - waved his hand impatiently. "That's all very well," he said, "but is he lucky?"

Are Republic started as a meritocracy born by the virtues of Napoleon

Rin says

I'd stopped believing in meritocracy, after seeing so many STEM PhDs/postdocs w/o a future career and after having started in financial services, where it was apparent that half the ppl in the area were a bunch of dolts. And don't get me started on management consulting. The only reason why MC even exists is because C-level execs are afraid to take the heat for their decisions so they use strategy firms to make their decisions for them.

100% true!

Rin says

I'd stopped believing in meritocracy, after seeing so many STEM PhDs/postdocs w/o a future career and after having started in financial services, where it was apparent that half the ppl in the area were a bunch of dolts

So fucking true. I've worked in the finance industry on the tech side. The men, and it's overwhelmingly men, are young, dumb, and full of cum.

My own estimation of things is that life is about half random.

You can help your situation, but only about half of the time.

The other half is just the will of Cthulhu.

+1 Cthulhu reference

Entitlemented says

China may be communist, but they have a great educational system, and they work hard and hustle. Sort of the like the US from 1930-1980s.

From my perspective, people going to college in the U.S. in 1930 - 1980, were far more likely to major in the humanities, or at least liberal arts, Math Science, philosophy, or even Literature, than now. Since about mid 1980s or so, people have been far more likely to think of college as about preparing for career (MBA, engineer, pharmasist, dentist etc) than before 1980.

Certainly in the boomer college years, students tended to think making a living was not going to be all that difficult, so they studied whatever the were interested in, often doing something entirely different after graduating.

thread filled with comments by people who never owned their own business.

Also, not quite sure what education level has to do with merit. Fucking phd where I work who insists on being called "doctor", was miserably outperformed by her predecessor, and has such a bad reputation that she will never ever promote again.

The poster earlier that said it's 90% perspiration has it correct.

How does Dan's blather fare against Occam's Razor?

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

half bright, fat dolphins shouting on the Internet.

You rang?

The video in the OP is one of those flaming liberals "justifications" that is only loosely related to the nominal title and argument. Who wants a premise that is tainted by a wagon train of liberal bullshit?

Close the fucking pulpit already.

Fucking White Male says

Fucking phd where I work who insists on being called "doctor"

PhD in some pseudo science does not count; those are the types who insist on being called doctor.

Truly smart people do not consider getting a PhD a great achievement.

On the other hand, the average person, including some fucking white males, are fucking retards.

indigenous says

How does Dan's blather fare against Occam's Razor?

The two are irrelevant to each other. You clearly don't understand either and think that Occam's Razor says that the simplest explanation is usually correct. It doesn't say that. If it did, it would be wrong and not worth quoting.

Ceffer says

The video in the OP is one of those flaming liberals "justifications" that is only loosely related to the nominal title and argument. Who wants a premise that is tainted by a wagon train of liberal bullshit?

If that's the best counter-argument you can make, then you will not convince anyone.

The "Wheel of Fortune" was a staple of the Middle Ages stoic philosophy, and I can't remember that they used it to slobber about social justice.

FP says

On the hand, the average person, including some fucking white males, are fucking retards.

Was there ever an assumption that while males were excluded of that honor?

ja says

Was there ever an assumption that while males were excluded of that honor?

Just a creative way to avoid an ad hominem charge.

(If there was any doubt about white males, now, after your question, it is eliminated.)

There is hard work and then luck/destiny/fate. Oprah rose to the top today, but about two centuries ago she would have been bought and sold as chattel. You control a small part and it is very important to do that part, but there is a much bigger whole that you do not control and at best try to ebb and flow with the waves of the world.

Doesn't mean you sit and do nothing, but there are forces far beyond a tiny human.

What the video doesn't show is any quantification

Probably the luck is more for the top 1% respect the 10%. To be in the 10% you need to be more talented and hard working than the bottom 90%
So if you quantify the $$, perhaps most people is still getting a free ride via taxes.

And even if that prize for the 1% is spent in status display items, it doesn't mean status display is not a motivation to produce wealth along the way (and part of it redistributed to the less lucky via taxes). Of course, we could just increase the taxes on the rich and give them a big sign saying 'you are successful'. Many professions (academia, ..) is basically what they get.

I'm not pro or against his proposals, but he is definitely biased.

Some people are just born lucky, so you have to figure out a way to fuck them up in some other way, like, liberal guilt trips.

ja says

What the video doesn't show is any quantification

No, but it doesn't have to in order to make the point.

ja says

Probably the luck is more for the top 1% respect the 10%

True. A hard-working and intelligent person can easily earn low six figures. However, getting to seven figures requires luck or nepotism. The influence of luck increases exponentially as you approach the top, just like the wealth does, and for the same reason, the winner-take-all economy.

Dan8267 says

No, but it doesn't have to in order to make the point.

All the points are valid, but unless you put a number on them they are bull. Making a wall with Mexico may be a good idea, till you realize you have to pay $1M for each immigrant you stop.

Don't you find it just a tad quirky that basically no one outside of actors and actresses attribute their financial success to luck? And the actors and actresses are actually incorrect.

I wonder if this is the political dividing factor?

Rightys - hard work is responsible for financial success and happiness in life overall

Lefties - success is random and can't realistically be attributed to anything other than luck.

This would explain how the left has been partially successful with the narrative that the poor and lower middle class work as hard as the rich(which isn't remotely true)

Fucking White Male says

Rightys - hard work is responsible for financial success and happiness in life overall

Fucking White Male says

Lefties - success is random and can't realistically be attributed to anything other than luck

Both attitudes reflect each group's belief in whether or not we have free will.

marcus says

From my perspective, people going to college in the U.S. in 1930 - 1980, were far more likely to major in the humanities, or at least liberal arts, Math Science, philosophy, or even Literature, than now. Since about mid 1980s or so, people have been far more likely to think of college as about preparing for career (MBA, engineer, pharmasist, dentist etc) than before 1980.

But in those eras, it was about the classics: Symposium, Nicomachean Ethics, The Spirit of Laws, Two Treatises of Government, Candide, Leviathan, On Liberty. The Nature of Things and the ancient questions, what is beauty? What is Virtue?

Today Liberal Arts coursework it's Maya Angelou and bell hooks poetry about Identity Politics. "Me suh un member of Boko Toko Clan! Much oppressed by de slavery o' de Whites Males, so Stale and Pale. I can also into Differently Abled Lesbian. Lemme tell you the reality of my lived experience as a left-handed lesbian Black woman growing up in middle class are of the Bronx, so Brown and Colorful, unlike Stale Pale Mean World of White Male." It's indoctrination into "Intersectionality" and "Post modernism" rather than a survey of 2000+ years of mostly Western Thought.

Shitty Postmodern "Poetry" for contemporary Lib Art course takers
my lady ain’t no lady
she doesn’t flow into a room—
she enters and her presence is felt.
she doesn’t sit small—
she takes all her space.
she doesn’t partake of meals—
she eats—replenishes herself.
my lady ain’t no lady—
she has been known
to speak in loud voice
to pick her nose,
stumble on a sidewalk,
swear at her cats,
swear at me,
scream obscenities at men,
paint rooms,
repair houses,
tote garbage,
play basketball,
& numerous other un lady like things.

Compare to a classic of Pope's:

In vain may heroes fight and patriots rave,
If secret gold sap on from knave to knave.
Once, we confess, beneath the patriot’s cloak,
From the crack’d bag the dropping guinea spoke,
And jingling down the back-stairs, told the crew
‘Old Cato is as great a rogue as you.’
Blest paper-credit! last and best supply!
That lends Corruption lighter wings to fly!
Gold imp’d by thee, can compass hardest things,
Can pocket states, can fetch or carry kings;
A single leaf shall waft an army o’er,
Or ship off senates to some distant shore;
A leaf, like Sibyl’s, scatter to and fro
Our fates and fortunes as the winds shall blow;
Pregnant with thousands flits the scrap unseen,
And silent sells a King or buys a Queen.

http://www.bartleby.com/203/145.html

Which one prepares you for leadership and decision making, and which one is self-centered rubbish?

ja says

All the points are valid, but unless you put a number on them they are bull.

I disagree. Quantifying is useful and preferred, but a point is still valuable even if it's on qualified. Often that's the first step in understanding the problem. Qualify the problem, then research and measure the details.