patrick.net

Ironman says

No, this is coming from someone who owns multiple guns because when SECONDS count, cops are only MINUTES away (and will be there in time to take the report after the fact).

The logical consequence of this statement is that cops are worthless in that scenario. This is true even if you don't have the balls to state it clearly.

Ironman says

And that would be an example of the "needle" and not the "haystack".

You miss the point entirely. The whole idea behind the bill of rights, groups like the aclu, and a shtiload of supreme court decisions is to protect the citizens from the "needles", of which there are way more than there should be. The blue wall protects far too many. The fact you call it a needle in a haystack means you are far out of touch with reality of police abuses in the swat team, civil forfeiture, guilty until proven innocent atmosphere today. Militarization of police was a terrible mistake that many forces are now recognizing and trying to change.

Tell them you don't have any because you brush regularly...

PCGyver says

. If the cop said we didn't find anything so now we want to do a full cavity search,

Strategist says

So what do you do when a cop stops you? You can't assume off the bat he is a bad cop. You can't wrestle him to the ground.

I will record it if the cop is not being professional. The stop is over the second they hand you the ticket. Rodriguez v. US c Once you have the ticket or if they aren't writing a ticket simply ask if you are free to go. If not ask if you are being detained. Ask nothing else. If they say you are being detained say nothing other than I want to speak to a lawyer. I'm not going to let them search the car without a warrant, that's for sure. You are nuts if you do.

Ironman says

Now, wait a second, can you please make up your mind, or do you have a Jekyll/Hyde situation in your head. You posted this above:

Ironman says

So, which is it?? Are there more "needles" or "haystacks"?? Please make a decision.

There are over 1 MILLION law enforcement officers in the country. How much crap do they deal with in any day? Do you think all 100% are totally pure as driven snow?

I thought it was plain english. The vast majority of cops are hard working and do a good job. That still leaves probably 10 of thousands or more assholes that shouldn't be on the job. Which is, exactly as I said, far too many. The entire point of civil rights is to protect the public from the bad apples.

My personal impression, and I worked with cops a lot 40 years ago, is police are a lot more aggressive, in your face, and quick to escalate situations than 40 years ago. Which is pretty strange because being a cop is a lot safer now than it was in the 60's and 70's. So what changed? The training and tactics became military based starting 20-25 years ago. Now instead of a couple cops walking up and knocking on the door you have a swat team knock down the door for someone kiting checks. You have a dozen cops show up guns drawn for a burglar alarm ringing. The high aggression levels are going to carry into many encounters with public leaving a bad impression even for good cops doing their job correctly as per their training. Cops need to go back to being social workers first and only being rambo in the once in a long while situation where it really needed.

bob2356 says

Cops need to go back to being social workers first and only being rambo in the once in a long while situation where it really needed.

+100, what Bob said, the entire post.

It just dawned on me one big reason why have had a 30-year trend in police militarization. It is because "equality" in the police force caused a loss of status for male police officers. The male officers sought refuge in SWAT teams and the like, over-dramatizing and over-escalating every little situation into something supposedly dangerous that required pointing guns and shouting orders and being manly.

Kind of like US foreign policy.

Ironman says

bob2356 says

Now instead of a couple cops walking up and knocking on the door you have a swat team knock down the door for someone kiting checks. You have a dozen cops show up guns drawn for a burglar alarm ringing.

Really??

Exaggerate much??

Nope, there are states that now require a swat team for all felony arrests no matter what the charge. Here is some data. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/02/17/shedding-light-on-the-use-of-swat-teams/?utm_term=.4792ad0eca98

Even Forbes writers aka the voice of conservative news thinks things have gone too far. https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorburrus/2014/12/09/how-states-can-fix-the-police/#2984e4a5548c

Half of swat deployments were for non violent crimes in Maryland mostly serving warrants. Which used to be a couple cops walking up to the door, just. like I said. Want to try again?

justme says

It just dawned on me one big reason why have had a 30-year trend in police militarization. It is because "equality" in the police force caused a loss of status for male police officers. The male officers sought refuge in SWAT teams and the like, over-dramatizing and over-escalating every little situation into something supposedly dangerous that required pointing guns and shouting orders and being manly.

Doesn't explain Traffic Stops.

And man, that is one Intersectional Racist Sexist Orthodoxy you got there.

I could just as easily say the huge increase in Female Cops are goading the men on to impress them with their brutality. After all, the numbers of women and minorities in the Police have exploded in the past few decades.

It's the Drug War that caused this, and Clinton's Wedge Issue of Crime and Mass Incarceration. That's why the SWAT teams are loaded with dough, but police aren't dispatched to take reports of robberies and make you go to the station. Traffic Enforcement in lieu of Taxes is another element.

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

Doesn't explain Traffic Stops.

I think it does actually. Police have been militarizing traffic stops.

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

And man, that is one Intersectional Racist Sexist Orthodoxy you got there.

I'll take that as a compliment. I'm not sure it is orthodoxy, though. It's more like heresy to blame feminists for causing an increase in violence, is it not? I'm pretty much the male equivalent of a witch for saying something like that.

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

I could just as easily say the huge increase in Female Cops are goading the men on to impress them with their brutality.

That *is* what I am saying, in slightly different words. No disagreement from me.

PCGyver says

I mean come on? What did the civilian do in this video other than have the camera rolling?

I'll tell you one reason why cops don't like to be recorded. When the time comes to convict criminals in court, a recording gives an opportunity to a smart lawyer to get him off technicalities.
It ends up wasting everyones time at the tax payers expense.

Strategist says

recording gives an opportunity to a smart lawyer to get him off technicalities.

What kind of "technicalities"? That the cop invoked some non-existent law as justification for doing something that is in fact highly illegal? That a cop shot some unarmed man that was no threat whatsoever? Please do tell us about these "technicalities" that you are invoking.

Ironman says

So, according to you, check kiting and burglar alarm ringing are felony arrests??

Really??

Come on Bobby boy, you're just digging yourself a DEEPER hole with your straw man redirections

The reading comprehension thing again. Reread my post. I never said a swat team responding to a burglary or anything about arrests for a ringing burglar alarm. . That troublesome period ending the sentence then starting a new idea in a different sentence thing trips you up a lot doesn't it?

Yes check kiting is a felony depending on the amount, which varies by state. Felony check kiting was an example of a non violent crime that using a swat team for is absurd. Everyone else figured that out. Just so you don't feel left because you don't know anything about the law here are some more examples of felony (again depending on the amount of money, sorry you are unaware that the difference between felony and misdemeanour depends on the amount of money involved) non violent crimes that would require a swat team in some states: theft, embezzlement, receipt of stolen goods, and arson of personal property, fraud, tax crimes, other forms of white collar crime, etc..

Your frequently proven ignorance of the law is no excuse for embarrassing yourself. you're just digging yourself a DEEPER hole with your straw man redirections. Just quit before you go any deeper in the ground.

Strategist says

I'll tell you one reason why cops don't like to be recorded. When the time comes to convict criminals in court, a recording gives an opportunity to a smart lawyer to get him off technicalities.

Yes those troublesome technicalities, like the bill of rights.

justme says

I think it does actually. Police have been militarizing traffic stops.

They don't use SWAT teams for writing tickets.

Right on on the rest.

Strategist says

You seem biased against the cop. He gets the benefit of the doubt.

There is no doubt when there is video.

You simply think there is no time a criminal who has a badge should be held accountable.

Ironman says

Hmmmmmm.......

Two separate sentences. Two separate examples of how police are more aggressive than they used to be. Don't be embarrassed, most people have to get past 4th or 5th grade to comprehend that kind of abstract thought. I have faith that someday you will be able understand this stuff, just keep working at it.