patrick.net

rando says

No one is murdering for Jesus, or to imitate His actions.

Not today because faith has been greatly diminished. But that was not true of the past, and may not be true of the future. Again, what possible difference is there with Christianity that makes it incorruptible? And why didn't that difference apply for 90% of Christian history? Jesus's teachings didn't change during the past 2000 years.

socal2 says

It seems pretty evident that Muslims have a hard time living peacefully AND EQUALLY side by side in a country that has a sizable or equal population of other religious ideologies, ethnicities or tribes.

The original statement was the islam is hyper violent. Not hyper violent only under certain circumstances. The question you keep dodging around is where is the hyper violence outside of the struggle for oil money and power in the middle east? The parts of the world 80% of muslims live in.

Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Afghanistan are countries with sizable or equal populations of other religious ideologies? When did that happen?

Dan8267 says

Not today because faith has been greatly diminished. But that was not true of the past, and may not be true of the future. Again, what possible difference is there with Christianity that makes it incorruptible? And why didn't that difference apply for 90% of Christian history? Jesus's teachings didn't change during the past 2000 years.

Considerably more than 90% of christian history. The last of the major pograms ended in 1921. The catholic church's hands are far from clean in the rise of the nazi's and the holocaust. Read about Pope Pius XII's involvement in a book called Hitlers Pope by John Cornwell. The vatican tried to counter the criticism with the publication of We Remember: A Reflection on the Shoah praising Pius XII. Pope John Paul II used this publication to push for the canonization as saint of Pius XII.

What is happening in Central African Republic today, which never makes the news, could easily be considered christian genocide. The christian militias are killing and driving out muslims in retaliation against the seleka rebels even though the seleka rebels were a mixed group rebelling against the government.

bob2356 says

where is the hyper violence outside of the struggle for oil money and power in the middle east?

Just to cite one example, you might consider Pakistan, which is a terrorist state where Asia Bibi remains on death row for blasphemy. When the law of the whole country, supported by the vast majority of the Muslim majority, says to kill you for saying such things as "Christians are just as good as Muslims," one execution sets a cautionary example to cow most Christians into submission. Whether you call it "hyper violence" or not, the fact remains that a majority of the population vote to kill you, and you have effectively no defense.

bob2356 says

The catholic church's hands are far from clean in the rise of the nazi's [sic] and the holocaust.

True, even Hitler was raised Catholic, and believed divine intervention spared him from assassination to enable him to complete his mission, and Pope Nazinger was also a Nazi, but none of that is a defense of Islam, which motivated 100k European Muslims (including substantially all eligible Bozniaks) to join the Nazi SS. You can't be more Catholic than the Pope, nor more Nazi than Hitler, so neither was a complete defense against the other. Today, however, almost all westerners reject Nazi ideology, while too many embrace Islam, which is very similar: when Nazis come to the west today, they come wrapped in hijabs.

curious2 says

Just to cite one example, you might consider Pakistan, which is a terrorist state where Asia Bibi remains on death row for blasphemy. When the law of the whole country, supported by the vast majority of the Muslim majority, says to kill you for saying such things as "Christians are just as good as Muslims," one execution sets a cautionary example to cow most Christians into submission. Whether you call it "hyper violence" or not, the fact remains that a majority of the population vote to kill you, and you have effectively no defense.

This is different from texas how? People are executed for breaking the law.

Try to focus, the original statement is islam is hyper violent. Where is the hyper violence outside of the middle east? Having a bad law is not hyper violence.

curious2 says

Today, however, almost all westerners reject Nazi ideology,

yep.

bob2356 says

This is different from texas how?

Nobody in Texas gets executed for blasphemy.

bob2356 says

Where is the hyper violence outside of the middle east?

Pakistan, to cite one example: the government of Pakistan colluded with Muslim militias to slaughter a million Hindus, and even now, bloggers continue to be murdered with impunity by Muslim Sharia patrols, all as per Islam.

bob2356 says

curious2 says

Today, however, almost all westerners reject Nazi ideology,

As I wrote, "almost." By contrast, in Paklstan as in most countries that have Muslim majorities, most Muslims demand the government must exercise violence (including execution) as per Islam.

bob2356 says

The original statement was the islam is hyper violent. Not hyper violent only under certain circumstances. The question you keep dodging around is where is the hyper violence outside of the struggle for oil money and power in the middle east? The parts of the world 80% of muslims live in.

The sharia laws itself are violent. Therefore, where there are Muslims there is violence, in one form or other.

curious2 says

bob2356 says

where is the hyper violence outside of the struggle for oil money and power in the middle east?

Just to cite one example, you might consider Pakistan, which is a terrorist state where Asia Bibi remains on death row for blasphemy. When the law of the whole country, supported by the vast majority of the Muslim majority, says to kill you for saying such things as "Christians are just as good as Muslims," one execution sets a cautionary example to cow most Christians into submission. Whether you call it "hyper violence" or not, the fact remains that a majority of the population vote to kill you, and you have effectively no defense.

bob2356 says

The catholic church's ha...

some have suggested that RCC is responsible for the creation of Islam.
http://revelation12.ca/?p=1992

Strategist says

bob2356 says

The original statement was the islam is hyper violent. Not hyper violent only under certain circumstances. The question you keep dodging around is where is the hyper violence outside of the struggle for oil money and power in the middle east? The parts of the world 80% of muslims live in.

The sharia laws itself are violent. Therefore, where there are Muslims there is violence, in one form or other.

exactly, so are you saying that the teachings of Islam are the root problem and cause of Islamic terrorism and violence?

Dan8267 says

rando says

No one is murdering for Jesus, or to imitate His actions.

Not today because faith has been greatly diminished. But that was not true of the past, and may not be true of the future.

It can never be true that anyone commits a murder to imitate the murders that Jesus committed. Because unlike Mohammed, Jesus did not murder anyone.

If armies murdered for Jesus, they were obviously wrong to do that, by his original teaching. But countries have armies, and armies do shit for political reasons.

rando says

But countries have armies, and armies do shit for political reasons.

I bet there there is money involved in their decisions,also.

Dan8267 says

That's a straw man argument.

For a moment I thought you were talking about
the 5 time DRAFT DODGER that doesn't have a brain.

PeopleUnited says

The sharia laws itself are violent. Therefore, where there are Muslims there is violence, in one form or other.

exactly, so are you saying that the teachings of Islam are the root problem and cause of Islamic terrorism and violence?

Yup.

Quran 9:5 (the infamous verse of the sword inciting mass murder):

"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

Fuck you People United. You need to get the fuck off of a forum of people who debate based on evidence and reason. You are either a fool , dishonest or insane and should be treated as such. Whether you realize it or not you are a propagandist. Making arguments claiming to have knowledge of a supernatural world, supernatural beings and an afterlife, and claiming that all knowledge is contained in the bible disqualifies you as a rational participant in a debate amongst people trying to use logic and evidence to understand the universe. I'm sure it is intoxicating to parrot Christian threats, manipulation and double speak to your family and others who can't see through the shrewdly crafted Christian mind control techniques, but most intelligent , open minded people see you as a primitive mind, less capable of logical thought, and an impediment to the further advancement of mankinds knowledge and awareness.

There are couple's toilets?

rando says

There are couple's toilets?

LOL - see the "Love Toilet" from SNL.

Vaticanus/PeopleUnited's avatar is adapted from a male and female toilet sign. Certain religious sites adapted the toilet sign to squeeze the male&female together, in opposition to marriage equality for same-sex couples.

"Oh, Noah, I promise not to destroy the world again with water."

"But hey, I didn't say anything about FIRE! Read the fine print, suckahs! Muah hahahhahaha"

Honestly all religions justify crap.

Ancient Egyptians toiled their miserable lives away to give the avatar of Amun-Ra a ridiculous burial.
Buddhism is used to treat lower caste people like shit and upper caste people literally as if their shit don't stink.
etc.

There ain't no pie in the sky when you die, it's a lie.
www.youtube.com/embed/PJ236CwhlPw

Now that guy is a good old time leftist!

Pretty sure he would not recognize the Democratic Party of today.

rando says

Pretty sure he would not recognize the Democratic Party of today.

Utah sure wouldn't.

curious#2 (AKA Strange bowel movement) says

rando says

There are couple's toilets?

LOL - see the "Love Toilet" from SNL.

Vaticanus/PeopleUnited's avatar is adapted from a male and female toilet sign. Certain religious sites adapted the toilet sign to squeeze the male&female together, in opposition to marriage equality for same-sex couples.

You seem to have an obsession with toilets. You can't stop talking about toilet signs and even your online handle refers to an unusual bowel movement.

PeopleUnited says

You can't stop talking about toilet signs and even your online handle refers to an unusual bowel movement.

Project much? "can't stop"?!? 99% of my comments are about other topics. You changed my username in your comment above to fit into the toilet sign avatar that you use for 100% of the comments you've posted since marriage equality. Before that you had a picture of Pope Nazinger to match your Vaticanus screen name.

PeopleUnited says

curious#2 (AKA Strange bowel movement) says

rando says

There are couple's toilets?

LOL - see the "Love Toilet" from SNL.

Vaticanus/PeopleUnited's avatar is adapted from a male and female toilet sign. Certain religious sites adapted the toilet sign to squeeze the male&female together, in opp...

curious2 says

PeopleUnited says

You can't stop talking about toilet signs and even your online handle refers to an unusual bowel movement.

Project much? "can't stop"?!? 99% of my comments are about other topics. You changed my username in your comment above to fit into the toilet sign avatar that you use for 100% of the comments you've posted since marriage equality. Before that you had a picture of Pope Nazinger to match your Vaticanus screen name.

PeopleUnited says

curious#2 (AKA Strange bowel movement) says

rando says

There are couple's toilets?

LOL - see

So you are not curious#2? My mistake curious2. Oh wait, and yet here you are talking about toilets again. Keep up the good work brother. Are you trying to sell more toilet paper?

Nevermind. But I do appreciate your comments about Cardinal Nazinger, I was entertained. You'd like him, he probably has gold toilets and is happy to share them with little boys.

Sorry I couldn't resist the opportunity for a Nazi, pedophile, Pope, toilet joke.

Now can we get back to talking about the root of Islamic terrorism? The fact of the matter is that us non-muslims better figure this out and work together to resolve it. The Muslims don't seem to be doing much to self police.

PeopleUnited says

Anyone who cares what God has said is capable of finding and verifying this truth for themselves.

Empirically false. Muslims worship the same god as you, the god of Abraham. They believe even more fervently than you do. Every Islamic terrorist attack including 9/11 was carried out by the faithful. Your god creates terrorists.

PeopleUnited says

It is you who suffers the delusion. You think you can exist without God. You cannot.

How, that is such a convincing argument. Wait, that's exactly the same argument Mohamed said to me to convince me to join Islam.

PeopleUnited says

Dan8267 says

I don't choose my beliefs.

A bold face lie, and yet you believe it. And like I said before when you lie to yourself, how can anyone take you seriously? Of course you choose your beliefs you poor soul.

Once again you demonstrate how dangerous Christian brainwashing is. The fact that you cannot comprehend that my beliefs are based on rational thought and evidence and therefore not my choice shows how delusional you are. Christianity is directly hurting our nation by making potential voters like you lose all grasp of reality and reason. That is direct harm in a republic.

I could no more choose to believe in your fictitious god than I could choose to believe the square root of two is a rational number, and for the exact same reason, logic demands otherwise.

PeopleUnited says

At least you are humble, humility goes a long way.

Honey, it's not that I have a high opinion of me. It's that I have a low opinion of you. And false humility is a vice.

I'm humble enough to admit that I'm not immortal, created in the image of a god, or anything special in the universe. If my entire planet and species never existed, the universe would hardly change at all. That's the real humility. And those who believe they have an immortal soul and the whole universe was created for them by a being with a special relationship with them, are the mothers of all arrogant asses. That's a level of ego I cannot even comprehend.

PeopleUnited says

Not only do I know what impotence is, I know you are helpless and powerless before the Creator. But you already knew that didn't you? That is why you need to talk big about how God doesn't exist. It is to mask your own impotence before Him. Why are you so afraid of God?

Wow, so that's what a tantrum thrown by an adult sounds like. Well, if that delusion makes you feel better about your mental illness, who am I to burst your fantasy with a dose of reality? I just think it's sad that you feel you need to tear down another person to make yourself feel better about what deep inside you realize is a lie.

PeopleUnited says

Can your god create an immovable object? If no, then he is not omnipotent. If yes, then can he move that object? If no, then he is not omnipotent. If yes, then he failed to create an immovable object.

Dan you are better than this. This is more semantics.

No, it's not. That's like saying 1 + 2 = 3 is mere semantics. What I showed is called a proof by contradiction. The fact that such a technique disproves your god beyond any doubt whatsoever does not make the technique invalid. Just because you don't like the truth, doesn't change what it is.

The fact that you chose to discard all of mathematics, which is the basis of all our knowledge and technology, to preserve your delusion demonstrates that faith in Christianity is a mental illness so severe that Christians should not be allowed to vote just like anyone suffering from a mental illness that prevents the person from grasping reality.

PeopleUnited says

God is not limited by time as we are. More arguments on semantics and more evidence of serious misunderstanding of God by Dan.

Another cop out that does not address this other proof by contradiction. I could just as well say that numbers aren't limited by arithmetic so 1 + 2 = 12. Sorry, you don't get to change mathematics.

PeopleUnited says

Dan8267 says

Then why consider the asshole a moral authority?

Changing the subject again Dan. God is Holy and righteous.

This is not changing the subject. You claim your god is holy and righteous, yet he has commanded his followers to do great evil including genocide, rape, and smashing the brains of babies on rocks. Once more you demonstrate how much Christianity fucks up people's minds and why it potentially is as dangerous as Islam. Left unchecked, people like you would be flying planes into buildings in less than 100 years.

PeopleUnited says

I am going to have to assume

And that right there is your problem. You assume and take things on faith rather than observe reality for what it is. And this is exactly the problem inherent in all religions.

PeopleUnited says

Not a straw man, a direct response to your false claim that supernatural entities such as angels and God cannot interact with a natural entity such as a rock or a human. I just pointed out that God may have created supernatural beings who can interact with what you call the natural world. The only arguments you are making are semantics. It is a recurring theme with you. Indicative that perhaps you are a bot.

I have thoroughly refuted your argument that supernatural entities could interact with the natural world without violating natural law. The interaction either has to obey the natural laws, in which case all entities involved are by definition natural, or it violates the natural laws, in which case there would be able evidence in the form of such violations.

I said you did not get to change mathematics to suit your superstitions. The same goes for the laws of nature.

And yes, I am a bot, which makes you being humiliated in this debate oh so much more pathetic. In fact, I'm a bot running on a Commodore 64, which just goes to show everyone that you don't need that much computational power to best PeopleUnited.

Now, shall we play a game?

PeopleUnited says

God created the laws of nature, He is not subject to them being supernatural Himself.

This would be irrelevant. Such a god would still have to violate those laws and such violations would be obvious.

PeopleUnited says

The God of the Bible also allows you to mock and jeer Him and those who follow Him. But in the end He will do what He has promised he will do. That is why He is Holy and righteous

Does anyone here not see how much PeopleUnited sounds like a Muslim? Same certainty in the irrational. Such conviction is dangerous and destructive.

If God existed, he would have shown himself by now, instead of playing "hide and seek" games like a child.

rando says

Jesus did not murder anyone.

If armies murdered for Jesus, they were obviously wrong to do that, by his original teaching.

But his father most certainly did. And his daddy called for genocide, rape, and infanticide. And Jesus was OK with slavery. Jesus is hardly an outstanding moral example. He was actually quite typical of Iron Age desert dwellers in the Middle East.

In any case, Jesus's teachings was that you should not inflict any harm on a person who is raping and killing you and your family. Turn the other cheek, he said. Your reward is in heaven, he said. Well, how many American Christians would let a home invader rape or kill a family member in order to follow Jesus's teachings? Zero. Jesus's teachings are stupid and even the most devote Christian knows it.

Hell, Jesus would not even approve of gun ownership. Jesus never packed heat. Not a bow, not a sword, not even a dagger. How many American Christians follow that example?

HEY YOU says

For a moment I thought you were talking about

the 5 time DRAFT DODGER that doesn't have a brain.

You'll have to be more specific. That describes every republican in the past 60 years.

Dan8267 says

But his father most certainly did. And his daddy called for genocide, rape, and infanticide.

What a sicko. I told you guys, I would make a better God, than God. Please vote for me.

Dan8267 says

But his father most certainly did. And his daddy called for genocide, rape, and infanticide.

The Old Testament God is disturbingly similar to Allah in some ways. But even the most literal hard core Orthodox Jew wants only the Jews to obey the literal Law of Moses. There are not very many Orthodox Jews, and Jews don't try to convert anyone, and they don't try to impose Jewish law by force.

The Muslims want to impose Sharia on the whole world, and are determined to murder everyone who is in their way. And there are shit ton of them, and they are very aggressive about proselytizing.

rando says

The Old Testament God is disturbingly similar to Allah in some ways.

So the foundation and first story of Christianity is evil and despicable, but the second story is quite nice if you eliminate the whole slavery thing. The problem with such a house is that the second story goes down when the first story collapses.

In any case, the fact that the most faithful of American Christian pack guns in direct contrast to everything Jesus said about non-violence and pacifism demonstrates that the goody-two-shoes aspects of Jesus you think keep Christians from being radicalized, don't actually do that. And this should not come as a surprise since for 1600 out of 2000 years of Christian history, the followers of Jesus were every bit as bad as the followers of Mohamed. And the next 200 years after that wasn't much better. It's only in the past 200 years that we atheists and secularists have gotten Christians under control. Today's moderate Christian is the exception, not the norm. Don't forget that.

There is no law in the universe that states Christians won't revert to their typical ways of murder and mayhem. It requires actively fighting against delusional people like PeopleUnited to prevent that. Even if PeopleUnited doesn't go all Jihad on your ass, what makes you think his son, grandson, or great grandson won't? Time is not on our side. Left uncheck, Christianity would progress to ever more violent stages just like it did when the Romans legalized it, and for the exact same reasons.

rando says

The Muslims want to impose Sharia on the whole world, and are determined to murder everyone who is in their way. And there are shit ton of them, and they are very aggressive about proselytizing.

Christianity was exactly this way for 80% of its history. Without strong opposition, it would become this way again.

rando says

The Old Testament God is disturbingly similar to Allah in some ways.

That's because Mohammad the illiterate terrorist had to steal other people's patents. Mohammad only knew how to murder, rape, steal, enslave, molest, and BS like hell.

Strategist says

rando says

The Old Testament God is disturbingly similar to Allah in some ways.

The Jews follow the Old Testament, yet have not been violent in over 2000 years. The Christians follow the New Testament and have been violent for most of the past 2000 years. That puts a nail in the coffin of the argument that the content of scripture matters.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

Anyone who cares what God has said is capable of finding and verifying this truth for themselves.

Empirically false. Muslims worship the same god as you, the god of Abraham. They believe even more fervently than you do. Every Islamic terrorist attack including 9/11 was carried out by the faithful. Your god creates terrorists.

Nice try. But as anyone with an iota of knowlege knows, Allah is not Elohim. Why do you have to make shit up? Why do you have to resort to false accusations? Perhaps it is because you have no knowledge of God. Don't worry, He will forgive you, if you let Him.

rando says

Dan8267 says

But his father most certainly did. And his daddy called for genocide, rape, and infanticide.

The Old Testament God is disturbingly similar to Allah in some ways. But even the most literal hard core Orthodox Jew wants only the Jews to obey the literal Law of Moses. There are not very many Orthodox Jews, and Jews don't try to convert anyone, and they don't try to impose Jewish law by force.

The Muslims want to impose Sharia on the whole world, and are determined to murder everyone who is in their way. And there are shit ton of them, and they are very aggressive about proselytizing.

Exactly, the parts of the Old Testament that many find disturbing were written as a history, and the laws of Moses and such were written for the Jews, and not for anyone else. Many of the Jews chose to follow God's laws, but they also had the option of rejecting God and leaving, going to live in another land where the other non-Jewish people lived. God never forced Himself on anyone.

PeopleUnited says

Nice try. But as anyone with an iota of knowlege knows, Allah is not Elohim. Why do you have to make shit up? Why do you have to resort to false accusations?

The only one here who is bullshitting is you. Facts are easily verified in the Information Age, so I'm calling you out as a liar.

Islam was founded by Mohamed, who basically stole from the two most popular religions of his time, Christianity and Judaism. Islamic mythology extends directly from both Judaism and Christianity. This is a hard core fact. You don't get to rewrite history to suit your narrative.

The New York Metropolitan Museum: The Prophet Muhammad and the Origins of Islam

The rise of Islam is intrinsically linked with the Prophet Muhammad, believed by Muslims to be the last in a long line of prophets that includes Moses and Jesus.

When he was roughly forty, Muhammad began having visions and hearing voices. Searching for clarity, he would sometimes meditate at Mount Hira, near Mecca. On one of these occasions, the Archangel Gabriel (Jibra'il in Arabic) appeared to him and instructed him to recite "in the name of [your] lord." This was the first of many revelations that became the basis of the Qur'an, the holy book of Islam.

One night, while the Prophet was sleeping, the Archangel Gabriel came and led him on a journey. Mounted on the heavenly steed Buraq, Muhammad traveled from the Ka'ba in Mecca to the "Farthest Mosque," which Muslims believe to be the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. There he prayed with other prophets such as Moses, Abraham, and Jesus, and ascended to the skies, where he was led by Gabriel through Paradise and Hell, and finally came face to face with God. He then returned to earth to continue spreading the message of Islam. According to Islamic belief, Muhammad was the only person to see Heaven and Hell while still alive.

There you have it. The same Abraham from the Christian Old Testament and the same Jesus and Archangel Gabriel from the Christian New Testament. Notice that I have provided actual evidence from a creditable source to back up my claims. But hey, since when does evidence actually mean anything to the religious?

PeopleUnited says

You and Dan and the other haters can quit talking about God and I will too.

Are you incapable of making straw man arguments? I don't hate your fictitious god. It's impossible to hate a character that doesn't exist. Your straw man is ridiculous. It's like saying I hate Darth Vader or Lord Voldemort.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

Nice try. But as anyone with an iota of knowlege knows, Allah is not Elohim. Why do you have to make shit up? Why do you have to resort to false accusations?

The only one here who is bullshitting is you. Facts are easily verified in the Information Age, so I'm calling you out as a liar.

Islam was founded by Mohamed, who basically stole from the two most popular religions of his time, Christianity and Judaism. Islamic mythology extends directly from both Judaism and Christianity. This is a hard core fact. You don't get to rewrite history to suit your narrative.

The New York Metropolitan Museum: The Prophet Muhammad and the Origins of Islam

The rise of Islam is intrinsically link...

So to recap, some child molester way back in history borrows from the Old Testament and New Testament and invents a new false God he calls Allah, and since you cite an article on the internet that this happened, that means Allah and Elohim are the same thing? Brilliant.

You have found a new low Dan. I am amazed at your desperation.