patrick.net

While we are on the topic of unnecessary death and destruction: What is the the root cause of American warmongering?

justme says

hile we are on the topic of unnecessary death and destruction: What is the the root cause of American warmongering?

What is the root cause of the most sustained peaceful and prosperous time in modern history since the US became a superpower?

Despite the violence in the Muslim World, the world is more peaceful now than it has been in decades.

Worldwide poverty is at an all time low too.

https://news.vice.com/article/the-world-has-gotten-safer-except-the-middle-east
http://www.npr.org/2016/07/16/486311030/despite-the-headlines-steven-pinker-says-the-world-is-becoming-less-violent

socal2 says

What is the root cause of the most sustained peaceful and prosperous time in modern history since the US became a superpower?

Despite the violence in the Muslim World, the world is more peaceful now than it has been in decades.

Worldwide poverty is at an all time low too.

Secularism - Democracy - Capitalism

socal2 says

bob2356 says

There are more muslims in india than the entire middle east. Where is the ultra violence? There is no oil to fight over in india. Coincidence? I think not.

It's because the Muslims are in the minority in India.

Britain literally had to carve out a separate country moving 10's of millions of human beings to separate the Muslims from the Hindus.

There are 175 million muslims in india. About the same as pakistan and more then the middle east. There are 200 million in Indonesia where they are very much the majority. Where is the ultra violence? Simple question.

bob2356 says

There are 175 million muslims in india. About the same as pakistan and more then the middle east. There are 200 million in Indonesia where they are very much the majority. Where is the ultra violence? Simple question.

The argument that the vast majority of a religion doesn't commit violent acts and therefore the religion is good only applies to Christianity. If you applied the same standards to both Christianity and Islam, you'd have to either accept or condemn both.

socal2 says

Despite the violence in the Muslim World, the world is more peaceful now than it has been in decades.

Yes, the US exports violence to the Middle East, where we side with any dictator that is anti-Russian (Saudi/Royals, Egypt miltary just for starters), and demonize and attack any government, dictatorial or democratic, that is pro-russian (Libya/Khadaffi, Syria/Assad, Iran) or not sufficiently pro-Israel (but only if they are not our "friends").

The world is "more peaceful" only to the extent the US has started somewhat less bloody wars than they did in Vietnam. Since 1975 we instead have specialized in terrorizing poor people in Latin America and the ME, and overthrowing democratically elected governments wherever we could,. We really should pat ourselves on the back for not killing quite as many people was we used to. We're the good guys!

justme says

What is the the root cause of American warmongering?

Big business.

bob2356 says

There are 175 million muslims in india. About the same as pakistan and more then the middle east. There are 200 million in Indonesia where they are very much the majority. Where is the ultra violence? Simple question.

I already pointed out to you that Muslims are a tiny minority in India. There are 1.2 BILLION Indians. The Muslim minority knows they would get wiped out if they get too uppity in India proper. Next door Pakistan is a shit hole where suicide and car bombs take out 100 at a clip.

Regarding Indonesia - nearly 90% of the population is Muslim and nearly all of them are Sunnis. Since they are largely an island nation and have no competing religions or borders, they manage to not bomb each other to smithereens like you see in other Muslim nations.

It seems pretty evident that Muslims have a hard time living peacefully AND EQUALLY side by side in a country that has a sizable or equal population of other religious ideologies, ethnicities or tribes.

justme says

Yes, the US exports violence to the Middle East, where we side with any dictator that is anti-Russian (Saudi/Royals, Egypt miltary just for starters), and demonize and attack any government, dictatorial or democratic, that is pro-russian (Syria/Assad, Iran) or not sufficiently pro-Israel (but only if they are not our "friends").

We've been pretty consistent since 9/11. No more siding with the central government "strongman" against the majority populations. .

- We support the majority Shia and Kurds against the minority Sunni Baathists in Iraq
- We support the majority Sunni population in Syria against the minority Shia and Allawite Baathists in Syria
- We support the majority moderate population in Afghanistan against the Taliban

Dan8267 says

Religion is what people do for God.

That's a lie. Your god doesn't exist. So you can stop right there.

It's also hypocritical for you to assert the existence of your god while rejecting the literally thousands of other gods currently still worshiped around the world. Are you really going to give equal credence to this guy?

Actually it would be better stated that religion is what people TRY to do for God.

As far as the one true God is concerned He has no need for me to assert his existence. He has done so himself. You mock and reject Him. Just as those who crucified him did, and just as a majority of people who ever lived have done. Many will find that after death it is too late to change their mind and accept the words of truth and the Spirit of God that is freely offered to everyone.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

You have faith in human reasoning

Reasoning has nothing to do with humans. Reasoning knows no species bounds or, for that matter, does it make any difference if it is done by machine or living creature.

Nor is faith involved. I do not have faith that the square root of two is an irrational number. I have knowledge. Knowledge is good. Faith is bad. The two are not the same thing.

Many of your arguments come down to semantics. We need not debate faith vs knowledge for that is another red herring and besides that it is not the issue you have with God. As for myself, I do not just have faith in God that he will do what He said He would do, I have knowledge that He has and will continue to do so because that is who He is. Just as the square root of two is an irrational number, God is who He said he is. If you had this knowledge we would not be having this debate. And as you are surely aware, the lack of knowledge is the most regrettable state of existence. However regrettable it may be, your lack of knowledge of God does not mean He doesn't exist.

Robert Sproul says

I am no fan of their dip-shit religion but, pick ANY region of the world and rain bombs down on them for the better part of a generation, and some percentage of the people that you don’t kill or cripple will become “terrorists” and try to get revenge.

In 2016 alone, 15 fucking years after a few buildings got knocked down in NY, the US dropped 26 THOUSAND bombs on Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan.

This started as some neocon psychopathy but now it is just who we are.

And so we reap the whirlwind.

It was a tactical error for the United States to become entangled in Middle East politics and policing, however it does not change the fact that Islam provides enough motivation for people to commit terrorist acts even without intentionally or accidentally provoking. Furthermore it is perhaps the most intolerant theology and its sharia law is just as bad if not worse than life under the supreme leader on North Korea.

PeopleUnited says

As far as the one true God is concerned He has no need for me to assert his existence. He has done so himself. You mock and reject Him. Just as those who crucified him did, and just as a majority of people who ever lived have done. Many will find that after death it is too late to change their mind and accept the words of truth and the Spirit of God that is freely offered to everyone.

The fact that you actually believe this ridiculous lie is reason enough that all religion should be banned. Anyone acting on such an irrational belief is delusional and cannot be making wise decisions, especially when it comes to politics. It would be impossible for someone with such a lack of grasp on reality to deal properly with the very real and important policy dilemma we face today regarding material things like climate change. Religion affects how people think and view the universe, and not in a good or wise way.

PeopleUnited says

However regrettable it may be, your lack of knowledge of God does not mean He doesn't exist.

No, I myself have no effect on whether or not your false god exist. Neither do you or your faith. Your god does not exist because
1. Omnipotence is a self-contradicting term.
2. Omnipotence and omniscience are contradictory.
3. The set of omnipotence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence is contradicted by the existence of evil and suffering.
4. Omniscience contradicts the laws of nature.
5. Supernatural entities cannot interact with any natural entity without violating the laws of nature, and such violations would be obvious.
6. Jesus Christ did not rise from the dead, walk on water, or turn water into win. Nor was he born of a virgin. That myth was plagiarized from many pagan myths.
7. The entire Bible was written by uncreative men with different contradicting and selfish political and social agendas. The character of god is full of character inconsistencies. Parts of the Bible directly contradict other parts over the simplest matters of fact.

The fact that you have been fooled your entire life by such an obvious scam demonstrates how dangerous the brainwashing of children by Christians truly is. And that alone makes Christianity evil.

Dan you had it right when you brought up knowledge. The only real difference between you and me is that I have knowledge of God and you have chosen to reject Him. He is long suffering and affords you time to change your mind and act on your knowledge of Himself.

1. An impotent man (figuratively) calling omnipotence a lie is laughable even as it is sad.
2. I personally don't see how an omnipotent being could be anything less than omniscient as well. If you created everything literally from nothing, you would probably know everything there is to know about it as well.
3. God does not claim to be omnibenevolent to my knowledge. Is that even a thing? He claims to be Holy.
4. Says the guy who was created by the I Am . This means you were created by the guy who wrote the laws of nature. Good luck arguing with Him.
5. See #4. But furthermore, how do you know that there are not aspects of "the natural world" ( which is just a God haters way of describing the universe God created) that exist without your knowledge? What if there is an angel watching over you right now and protecting you from the evil of this world just long enough for you to come to the knowledge of God?
6. See #4
7. The entire Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit and is profitable for teaching, rebuking and training in righteousness. That's why it is the most important book you can ever read.

jazz music says

MMR says

Why singling out Catholics?

Because I offered Ireland as the example

A very bad example, showing ignorance of the situation. The conflict in Ireland was not at all motivated by religion itself, but by discrimination against the native Irish population by the descendants of the colonizers. The different sects are just badges of identity used to sort out who is on which side.

No one is murdering for Jesus, or to imitate His actions. Both sides are nominally Christian.

This is extremely different from Islamic terrorism, which is motivated by Islam itself. The terrorists themselves scream about Islam at the top of their lungs while murdering random non-Muslims. Why do you ignore this fact?

So God is Swiss after all!

PeopleUnited says

. God does not claim to be omnibenevolent to my knowledge. Is that even a thing? He claims to be Holy.

PeopleUnited says

7. The entire Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit and is profitable for teaching, rebuking and training in righteousness. That's why it is the most important book you can ever read.

Don't you think your time is better spent trying to convert Muslims to Christianity, instead of these crazy Atheists like Dan?

rando says

A very bad example, showing ignorance of the situation. The conflict in Ireland was not at all motivated by religion itself, but by discrimination against the native Irish population by the descendants of the colonizers. The different sects are just badges of identity used to sort out who is on which side.

Additionally, it's not a pattern even if it was mostly Religious. You don't see Protestants vs. Catholics in England or France or Germany or anywhere else the two mix.

Whereas Islam against BOTH non-Muslims and between Sects of Islam, not to mention Secularists, is endemic across the World, from Ajeh to Tunisia.

PeopleUnited says

The only real difference between you and me is that I have knowledge of God and you have chosen to reject Him.

1. You don't have knowledge of god. You have a delusion. That's not the same thing.
2. I no more chose to reject your false god than I have chosen to reject any other false god, unicorns, or fairies. I don't choose my beliefs. Evidence and reasoning compel me to believe what I do. This is why I am far wiser than you ever will be.

PeopleUnited says

1. An impotent man (figuratively) calling omnipotence a lie is laughable even as it is sad.

I don't think you know what impotence means. In any case, your assertion that omnipotence is not self-contradictory simply demonstrates your ignorance.

Can your god create an immovable object? If no, then he is not omnipotent. If yes, then can he move that object? If no, then he is not omnipotent. If yes, then he failed to create an immovable object. Proof by contradiction, omnipotence is impossible. It is self-contradictory. Therefore an omnipotent god cannot exist.

If you cannot understand or accept this, then you have demonstrated just how dangerous Christian brainwashing is.

PeopleUnited says

I personally don't see how an omnipotent being could be anything less than omniscient as well.

Again, you demonstrate the dangers of Chrstian brainwashing.

Does god know what he will do tomorrow? If no, then he is not omniscient. If yes, then he cannot change that and is not omnipotent. Omniscience directly contradicts omnipotence.

PeopleUnited says

God does not claim to be omnibenevolent to my knowledge. Is that even a thing? He claims to be Holy.

Then why consider the asshole a moral authority? Why take your moral cues from a god that even occasionally embraces evil?

PeopleUnited says

Says the guy who was created by the I Am . This means you were created by the guy who wrote the laws of nature. Good luck arguing with Him.

I don't argue with fictitious entities.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that the universe was created by an intelligent being. If it were, the question would simply become what created that being. If the answer is the being wasn't created, but always was, then it makes more sense to conclude that nature wasn't created and always was.

And even if you believed in one god, it makes no sense to assume that god is unique. Why wouldn't there be a plenitudes of gods, all with disagreeing opinions of morality? Why should I give your monotheist religion any more respect than you give polytheistic religions like Hindu, Native American religions, and Wicca?

PeopleUnited says

which is just a God haters way of describing the universe God created

You're projecting. It is impossible to hate something that doesn't exist. Although you may hate atheists -- you certainly act like you do -- my motives are purely rational.

PeopleUnited says

how do you know that there are not aspects of "the natural world" that exist without your knowledge?

That's a straw man argument. Of course there are many aspects of the natural world that neither I nor any other person currently have knowledge of. That does not mean we cannot figure some things out. Planes fly. Electronic devices work. The proof is in the pudding. I can know that an entity with self-contradicting properties cannot exist.

How do you know that all the Hindi gods don't exist? Hypocrisy much?

PeopleUnited says

6. See #4

You are truly terrible at logic. By definition, nature has to obey the laws of nature. Some of those laws are the laws of conservation, expressed in layman's terms as "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". If a ghost or a god even tried to lift a penny off the ground, it would violate the law of conservation of energy. This violation would be as obvious as a giant dick slapping you repeatedly across the face.

PeopleUnited says

The entire Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit and is profitable for teaching, rebuking and training in righteousness.

The God of the Bible allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 & Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). Boy, that's some holy spirit of yours. "Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks." Yes, quite righteous indeed.

I could quote pages of verses from both testaments that are just plain downright evil. Again, you have demonstrated the dangers of Christian brainwashing. Does anyone still think that Christians could not be radicalized like modern Muslims? Any irrational movement can be radicalized.

Strategist says

Don't you think your time is better spent trying to convert Muslims to Christianity, instead of these crazy Atheists like Dan?

Oh yeah, rational thought is way more crazy than supernatural beliefs that have no evidence and contradict everything we know of the universe. Just remember, your reading electronic text created with crazy scientific knowledge, not prayer.

rando says

No one is murdering for Jesus, or to imitate His actions.

Not today because faith has been greatly diminished. But that was not true of the past, and may not be true of the future. Again, what possible difference is there with Christianity that makes it incorruptible? And why didn't that difference apply for 90% of Christian history? Jesus's teachings didn't change during the past 2000 years.

socal2 says

It seems pretty evident that Muslims have a hard time living peacefully AND EQUALLY side by side in a country that has a sizable or equal population of other religious ideologies, ethnicities or tribes.

The original statement was the islam is hyper violent. Not hyper violent only under certain circumstances. The question you keep dodging around is where is the hyper violence outside of the struggle for oil money and power in the middle east? The parts of the world 80% of muslims live in.

Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Afghanistan are countries with sizable or equal populations of other religious ideologies? When did that happen?

Dan8267 says

Not today because faith has been greatly diminished. But that was not true of the past, and may not be true of the future. Again, what possible difference is there with Christianity that makes it incorruptible? And why didn't that difference apply for 90% of Christian history? Jesus's teachings didn't change during the past 2000 years.

Considerably more than 90% of christian history. The last of the major pograms ended in 1921. The catholic church's hands are far from clean in the rise of the nazi's and the holocaust. Read about Pope Pius XII's involvement in a book called Hitlers Pope by John Cornwell. The vatican tried to counter the criticism with the publication of We Remember: A Reflection on the Shoah praising Pius XII. Pope John Paul II used this publication to push for the canonization as saint of Pius XII.

What is happening in Central African Republic today, which never makes the news, could easily be considered christian genocide. The christian militias are killing and driving out muslims in retaliation against the seleka rebels even though the seleka rebels were a mixed group rebelling against the government.

bob2356 says

where is the hyper violence outside of the struggle for oil money and power in the middle east?

Just to cite one example, you might consider Pakistan, which is a terrorist state where Asia Bibi remains on death row for blasphemy. When the law of the whole country, supported by the vast majority of the Muslim majority, says to kill you for saying such things as "Christians are just as good as Muslims," one execution sets a cautionary example to cow most Christians into submission. Whether you call it "hyper violence" or not, the fact remains that a majority of the population vote to kill you, and you have effectively no defense.

bob2356 says

The catholic church's hands are far from clean in the rise of the nazi's [sic] and the holocaust.

True, even Hitler was raised Catholic, and believed divine intervention spared him from assassination to enable him to complete his mission, and Pope Nazinger was also a Nazi, but none of that is a defense of Islam, which motivated 100k European Muslims (including substantially all eligible Bozniaks) to join the Nazi SS. You can't be more Catholic than the Pope, nor more Nazi than Hitler, so neither was a complete defense against the other. Today, however, almost all westerners reject Nazi ideology, while too many embrace Islam, which is very similar: when Nazis come to the west today, they come wrapped in hijabs.

curious2 says

Just to cite one example, you might consider Pakistan, which is a terrorist state where Asia Bibi remains on death row for blasphemy. When the law of the whole country, supported by the vast majority of the Muslim majority, says to kill you for saying such things as "Christians are just as good as Muslims," one execution sets a cautionary example to cow most Christians into submission. Whether you call it "hyper violence" or not, the fact remains that a majority of the population vote to kill you, and you have effectively no defense.

This is different from texas how? People are executed for breaking the law.

Try to focus, the original statement is islam is hyper violent. Where is the hyper violence outside of the middle east? Having a bad law is not hyper violence.

curious2 says

Today, however, almost all westerners reject Nazi ideology,

yep.

bob2356 says

This is different from texas how?

Nobody in Texas gets executed for blasphemy.

bob2356 says

Where is the hyper violence outside of the middle east?

Pakistan, to cite one example: the government of Pakistan colluded with Muslim militias to slaughter a million Hindus, and even now, bloggers continue to be murdered with impunity by Muslim Sharia patrols, all as per Islam.

bob2356 says

curious2 says

Today, however, almost all westerners reject Nazi ideology,

As I wrote, "almost." By contrast, in Paklstan as in most countries that have Muslim majorities, most Muslims demand the government must exercise violence (including execution) as per Islam.

bob2356 says

The original statement was the islam is hyper violent. Not hyper violent only under certain circumstances. The question you keep dodging around is where is the hyper violence outside of the struggle for oil money and power in the middle east? The parts of the world 80% of muslims live in.

The sharia laws itself are violent. Therefore, where there are Muslims there is violence, in one form or other.

curious2 says

bob2356 says

where is the hyper violence outside of the struggle for oil money and power in the middle east?

Just to cite one example, you might consider Pakistan, which is a terrorist state where Asia Bibi remains on death row for blasphemy. When the law of the whole country, supported by the vast majority of the Muslim majority, says to kill you for saying such things as "Christians are just as good as Muslims," one execution sets a cautionary example to cow most Christians into submission. Whether you call it "hyper violence" or not, the fact remains that a majority of the population vote to kill you, and you have effectively no defense.

bob2356 says

The catholic church's ha...

some have suggested that RCC is responsible for the creation of Islam.
http://revelation12.ca/?p=1992

Strategist says

bob2356 says

The original statement was the islam is hyper violent. Not hyper violent only under certain circumstances. The question you keep dodging around is where is the hyper violence outside of the struggle for oil money and power in the middle east? The parts of the world 80% of muslims live in.

The sharia laws itself are violent. Therefore, where there are Muslims there is violence, in one form or other.

exactly, so are you saying that the teachings of Islam are the root problem and cause of Islamic terrorism and violence?

Dan8267 says

rando says

No one is murdering for Jesus, or to imitate His actions.

Not today because faith has been greatly diminished. But that was not true of the past, and may not be true of the future.

It can never be true that anyone commits a murder to imitate the murders that Jesus committed. Because unlike Mohammed, Jesus did not murder anyone.

If armies murdered for Jesus, they were obviously wrong to do that, by his original teaching. But countries have armies, and armies do shit for political reasons.

rando says

But countries have armies, and armies do shit for political reasons.

I bet there there is money involved in their decisions,also.

Dan8267 says

That's a straw man argument.

For a moment I thought you were talking about
the 5 time DRAFT DODGER that doesn't have a brain.

PeopleUnited says

The sharia laws itself are violent. Therefore, where there are Muslims there is violence, in one form or other.

exactly, so are you saying that the teachings of Islam are the root problem and cause of Islamic terrorism and violence?

Yup.

Quran 9:5 (the infamous verse of the sword inciting mass murder):

"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

Fuck you People United. You need to get the fuck off of a forum of people who debate based on evidence and reason. You are either a fool , dishonest or insane and should be treated as such. Whether you realize it or not you are a propagandist. Making arguments claiming to have knowledge of a supernatural world, supernatural beings and an afterlife, and claiming that all knowledge is contained in the bible disqualifies you as a rational participant in a debate amongst people trying to use logic and evidence to understand the universe. I'm sure it is intoxicating to parrot Christian threats, manipulation and double speak to your family and others who can't see through the shrewdly crafted Christian mind control techniques, but most intelligent , open minded people see you as a primitive mind, less capable of logical thought, and an impediment to the further advancement of mankinds knowledge and awareness.

There are couple's toilets?

rando says

There are couple's toilets?

LOL - see the "Love Toilet" from SNL.

Vaticanus/PeopleUnited's avatar is adapted from a male and female toilet sign. Certain religious sites adapted the toilet sign to squeeze the male&female together, in opposition to marriage equality for same-sex couples.

"Oh, Noah, I promise not to destroy the world again with water."

"But hey, I didn't say anything about FIRE! Read the fine print, suckahs! Muah hahahhahaha"

Honestly all religions justify crap.

Ancient Egyptians toiled their miserable lives away to give the avatar of Amun-Ra a ridiculous burial.
Buddhism is used to treat lower caste people like shit and upper caste people literally as if their shit don't stink.
etc.

There ain't no pie in the sky when you die, it's a lie.
www.youtube.com/embed/PJ236CwhlPw

Now that guy is a good old time leftist!

Pretty sure he would not recognize the Democratic Party of today.

rando says

Pretty sure he would not recognize the Democratic Party of today.

Utah sure wouldn't.

curious#2 (AKA Strange bowel movement) says

rando says

There are couple's toilets?

LOL - see the "Love Toilet" from SNL.

Vaticanus/PeopleUnited's avatar is adapted from a male and female toilet sign. Certain religious sites adapted the toilet sign to squeeze the male&female together, in opposition to marriage equality for same-sex couples.

You seem to have an obsession with toilets. You can't stop talking about toilet signs and even your online handle refers to an unusual bowel movement.