patrick.net

socal2 says

It's OK to try a little harder - it won't hurt you.

No, it will not, unlike you it will not strain me.
But let's try to keep the plying field more even.

Dan8267 says

Bullshit. The most hateful, hang them high assholes in our society are the most fervent religious.

The only one hateful around here is you Dan. And you juts give atheists a bad name, since everyone else doesn't have your issues.

Dan8267 says

Furthermore, there is nothing necessary or even useful in religion for teaching empathy, compassion, or forgiveness. This things can easily be taught with zero supernatural bullshit, zero rewriting of history, and zero mythology.

It can't be taught without Christian god, because all those things need a higher moral authority.
And as far as rewriting history, that's your side... your team keeps on removing statues down South, and sanitizing out of society any information about Americas past. It's your side rewriting history, the rest of us are just trying to hold on to it so we can remember the past in order to make a better future.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

Furthermore, there is nothing necessary or even useful in religion for teaching empathy, compassion, or forgiveness.

It can't be taught without Christian god, because all those things need a higher moral authority.

Have you been baptizing monkeys in your church, because:

https://www.ted.com/talks/frans_de_waal_do_animals_have_morals

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

Furthermore, there is nothing necessary or even useful in religion for teaching empathy, compassion, or forgiveness. This things can easily be taught with zero supernatural bullshit, zero rewriting of history, and zero mythology.

It can't be taught without Christian god, because all those things need a higher moral authority.

This is a myth spewed by Churches. Everyone thinks it's their religion that is the best, superior, and only way to heaven.
FortWayne, if what you say is true, how do you explain the fact that hardly any atheists are in prison, while they are full of Christians.

Laiming to be a Christian doesn't make one a Christian. Otherwise no idea, statistics can be misleading... since according to statistics speaking English gives cancer.

Strategist says

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

Furthermore, there is nothing necessary or even useful in religion for teaching empathy, compassion, or forgiveness. This things can easily be taught with zero supernatural bullshit, zero rewriting of history, and zero mythology.

It can't be taught without Christian god, because all those things need a higher moral authority.

This is a myth spewed by Churches. Everyone thinks it's their religion that is the best, superior, and only way to heaven.

FortWayne, if what you say is true, how do you explain the fact that hardly any atheists are in prison, while they are full of Christians.

Salman Abedi launched his suicide attack out of ‘a love of Islam’ and in twisted revenge for US airstrikes on Syria, his sister has claimed.

Jamona Abedi failed to condemn her brother’s murderous actions but instead claimed to offer an explanation for the atrocity, in which 22 innocent people, many of them children, were killed.

Miss Abedi, who lives in the Libyan capital Tripoli, said her brother had become increasingly violent over the course of the past year, convinced that Muslims were under attack both in the UK and abroad.

How many Muslim Girls were bombed in the UK by the EDF or others? Oh, none.

The UK is not involved in Syria.

We need to seriously consider how many Libyan latent terrorists we let into the country under the "But they'll be oppressed under Ghaddafi for their pro-Shari'a Beliefs".

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Salman Abedi launched his suicide attack out of ‘a love of Islam’

Listen you Islam apologists, just listen. They keep giving very consistent answers for their terrorist acts, and we keep denying it.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

How many Muslim Girls were bombed in the UK by the EDF or others? Oh, none.

The UK is not involved in Syria.

You'd think they would be happy with the UK for helping them get rid of Ghadaffi.

socal2 says

You'd think they would be happy with the UK for helping them get rid of Ghadaffi.

Yep,and you'd think the Taliban would be happy with us helping to rid them of the Soviets.

Or the Saudi Arabian Wahabi "Foreign Fighters" with us protecting them from Saddam Hussein.

Strategist says

FortWayne, if what you say is true, how do you explain the fact that hardly any atheists are in prison, while they are full of Christians.

Atheists make up only 3% of the US population. So it is not surprising they make us a small percentage of our prison population. Would you consider all the gang bangers in our prisons as devout Christians? MI13 gang members may claim to be Catholic, but their actions would cause them to be formally excommunicated by the church.

Marxism was the most destructive man-made ideology of the 20th century. Hundreds of millions were killed by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot in 50 short years. Nothing else short of the plague comes close to that much death and destruction in such a short period of time. The Marxist versions practiced in Russia, China and Cambodia was explicitly anti-religious.
Marxist–Leninist governments in the twentieth century, such as the Soviet Union after Lenin and the People's Republic of China, implemented rules introducing state atheism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism_and_religion

If "religion" has to own every bad thing that happened over the last 4,000+ years by people born into a religious family. Is it really not fair to link atheism to some (not all) of the murderous actions of Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao when their Marxist ideology was explicitly anti-religious?

The left repels reality to fit their diversity quotas.

Strategist says

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Salman Abedi launched his suicide attack out of ‘a love of Islam’

Listen you Islam apologists, just listen. They keep giving very consistent answers for their terrorist acts, and we keep denying it.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

ep,and you'd think the Taliban would be happy with us helping to rid them of the Soviets.

Or the Saudi Arabian Wahabi "Foreign Fighters" with us protecting them from Saddam Hussein.

The vast majority of America's actions since WWII until 9/11 was in support of Muslim populations.

- We helped Muslims kick out the USSR from Afghanistan
- We helped Balkan Muslims against Christian Serbs
- We helped Saudi Arabia and Kuwait against "secular" Saddam Hussein in Gulf War 1
- We even sided with Egypt against Israel, France and the UK during the Suez crisis

And since 9/11 we sided with majority Sunni and Shia populations against the secular Saddam and Assad.

Islam has no legitimate beef against America. I suppose they can complain that we have not been too successful from keeping primitive Muslims from killing each other in Iraq and Syria by the hundreds of thousands. But make no mistake, the vast majority of deaths in the Middle East since 9/11 is from Muslims killing their fellow Muslims........and Muslims killing Christians, Yazidiz, gays, and secular groups.

The #1 Reason Islam hates America is that we are the strongest of the Kuffars.

Just wait until they start tussling with China, there will be no padding on the gloves then.

I think it is important to point out that the whole Islamic world is very weak and ineffective.

Islam holds them back.

socal2 says

If "religion" has to own every bad thing that happened over the last 4,000+ years by people born into a religious family. Is it really not fair to link atheism to some (not all) of the murderous actions of Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao when their Marxist ideology was explicitly anti-religious?

Our own resident atheist Dan would likely go down that same dark road if given power. From the hateful things he's said and totalitarian proposals he's made, it's obvious that atheists will stop at nothing to remake the world in their image. Which is why he's constantly defending Islam, pretty similar levels of intolerance!

socal2 says

- We helped Muslims kick out the USSR from Afghanistan

- We helped Balkan Muslims against Christian Serbs

- We helped Saudi Arabia and Kuwait against "secular" Saddam Hussein in Gulf War 1

- We even sided with Egypt against Israel, France and the UK during the Suez crisis

And they send their suicide bombers to thank us everyday. Ungrateful bastards.

Quigley says

Our own resident atheist Dan would likely go down that same dark road if given power. From the hateful things he's said and totalitarian proposals he's made, it's obvious that atheists will stop at nothing to remake the world in their image.

Dan is definitely one of the bigger totalitarians here at Patrick.net. Between his Orwellian Doublespeak in how he likes to inverse Conservatives with Liberals and his cock-sure prescriptions to use the power of the State to make "heaven on earth". It just drives him ape that some Christians and Jews stand in the way of his master plans.

Communist/Marxist regimes were filled with little technocrat toadies like Dan.

That shit is so done and dusted, but some people never seem to learn from history.

socal2 says

Communist/Marxist regimes were filled with little technocrat toadies like Dan

I've dubbed people like that Little Soviets--they are the human incarnation of the impulses that animated the Soviet Union for 70 plus years--you might add no sense of humor as well. We defeated national Marxism but not the impulses it was based upon. Those who were orphaned are clambering aboard the bandwagon of climate change/global warming/environmentalism.

Anybody wonder why the Bomber's brothers and father are in Tripoli right now?

Heavy clashes erupted in the Libyan capital Tripoli on Friday, as armed groups aligned with the U.N.-backed government fought to fend off a major offensive by rival Islamist-leaning forces and militia fighters.

Loud explosions and heavy artillery fire could be heard across Tripoli from early morning. At least 28 people were killed in the violence and more than 120 wounded, according to health officials.

The U.N.-backed Government of National Accord (GNA) issued a statement blaming the attack on Khalifa Ghwell, the head of a self-declared, Islamist-leaning "national salvation government" that was set up in 2014, and Salah Badi, an allied militia leader.

It was unclear how much territory either side had gained. But late on Friday a spokesman for the judicial police said a GNA-aligned faction had gained control of the Al-Hadba prison, which holds several high profile inmates including one of former leader Muammar Gaddafi's sons and his military intelligence chief.

I kinda doubt they're fighting with the government forces.

FortWayne says

The only one hateful around here is you Dan. And you juts give atheists a bad name, since everyone else doesn't have your issues.

This is a blatant poisoning of the well argument. There is no hatred in me, and you are a lying sack of shit for trying to character assissinate me. I can oppose evil, whether it be Islamic terrorism or Christian sabotaging of human rights and necessary environmental police, without being hateful. You cannot understand that because you are hateful. You hate homosexuals. You hate atheists. You hate people of opposing religions. You hate communists. You hate the conservative left. You hate everyone who isn't in your narrow-minded tribe. So, of course, you cannot understand that another person could be motivated by something other than hate. I'm motivated by my strong engineering instinct to refine and improve systems. You will never understand that.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

Furthermore, there is nothing necessary or even useful in religion for teaching empathy, compassion, or forgiveness. This things can easily be taught with zero supernatural bullshit, zero rewriting of history, and zero mythology.

It can't be taught without Christian god, because all those things need a higher moral authority.

Bullshit. If you are "forgiving" someone only because you are trying to get into heaven or avoid being tortured in hell, you aren't actually forgiving someone.

And I don't need your false god to empathize with another human being, or another animal, or even a sentient A.I. You statement is empirically false. I have empathy, compassion, and forgiveness while completely disbelieving in your ridiculous god. How do you explain that? I'm a living, breathing example that your are wrong.

Furthermore, history completely discredits your assertions. Western civilization was most Christian and most religious during the Dark Ages, a time when empathy, compassion, and forgiveness were at an all time low. History matters.
rando says

Islam holds them back.

This is true. It is also the reason western civilization literally lost a thousand years of progress due to Christianity. For an entire millennia, Christianity did to Europe what Islam is doing to the Middle East, stifling progress. You never, ever, without exception, see technological or social progress in a highly religious society. It never matters what the religion is. They all prevent progress.

Quigley says

Our own resident atheist Dan would likely go down that same dark road if given power. From the hateful things he's said and totalitarian proposals he's made, it's obvious that atheists will stop at nothing to remake the world in their image. Which is why he's constantly defending Islam, pretty similar levels of intolerance!

Well, if we're painting our opposition as demons, let me remind you that Christian clergy are a bunch of kiddie rapists. That's an empirical fact, unlike your ridiculous conjecture.

socal2 says

Between his Orwellian Doublespeak in how he likes to inverse Conservatives with Liberals

A liberal believes in equality under the law, transparency in government, and that everyone should be allowed to do what they want as long as they aren't violating other people's rights. Exactly which of these principles do you disagree with?

No double speak here. I made it clear what liberal philosophy is and how to apply it.

Someone who restricts speech is a conservative, by definition, regardless of what particular speech they are restricting. Silencing rock-and-roll, and silencing men's rights speeches, and silencing profanity or indecent conversation, and silencing anti-war protests are all the same thing. It's all censorship, and it's all conservative.

Islamist are conservatives. You cannot make an honest case that ISIS is full of liberals. The idea that conservatives are only the conservative right is a lie. Hell, what constitutes the left and the right varies from country to country and from decade to decade. Today the conservative right likes beer. In the early 20th century, they were prohibitionists. The arbitrary cultural preferences can change, but the tactics and fundamental ideology is the same. My tribe is the only tribe that matters. All other tribes must submit or die. That's conservatism.

It's really sad that you conservatives always feel the need to lie about things to support your case. The truth never supports your statements.

P N Dr Lo R says

socal2 says

Communist/Marxist regimes were filled with little technocrat toadies like Dan

I've dubbed people like that Little Soviets

And your example illustrates how false your premise is. The Soviets were leftists, but they sure as hell weren't liberals. They were extremely conservative. They believed in suppressing all speech and limiting liberty as much as possible. Being on the political left does not make one liberal at all.

I've even painted a picture for you. If you cannot understand this image, that's your intellectual failing. It's not that hard to understand.

Dan8267 says

Bullshit. If you are "forgiving" someone only because you are trying to get into heaven or avoid being tortured in hell, you aren't actually forgiving someone.

Hey, that makes sense to me. Truly forgiving someone can only come with no selfish motives.
For $10 million i might even forgive Osama Bin Laden.

Obama made a grave mistake killing bin Laden. He's now a martyr. Obama should have brought his ass back to New York City to stand trial. It would have been a show of strength and resolve that our form of government cannot be damaged by terrorism, and that the long arm of the law is truly long.

Dan8267 says

Obama made a grave mistake killing bin Laden. He's now a martyr. Obama should have brought his ass back to New York City to stand trial. It would have been a show of strength and resolve that our form of government cannot be damaged by terrorism, and that the long arm of the law is truly long.

Really? And allow him to continue as an inspiration to the Islamists, worldwide? While we spend tens of millions on his welfare, security, and court costs with the rotten justice system we have?

I'm happy Osama is dead.

That documentary points out that the current Saudi king was instrumental in funding terrorism in Bosnia, as a way to get terrorists a foothold Europe.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/saudi-arabias-new-king-helped-fund-radical-terror-groups/

The king is actually much worse than Osama, funding terror all over the world.

rando says

That documentary points out that the current Saudi king was instrumental in funding terrorism in Bosnia, as a way to get terrorists a foothold Europe.

www.youtube.com/embed/M6QIopgwuIU

The globalist neoliberals almost never mention Bosnian atrocities like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kravica_attack_(1993)

Strategist says

Really? And allow him to continue as an inspiration to the Islamists, worldwide?

Feed him bacon every day. He won't be an inspiration to Islamists. As a martyr with 72 virgins, he is.

rando says

I'm happy Osama is dead.

A quick death means Osama suffered nothing for his crimes. Spending the rest of his life ineffectually in prison would have been a much better deterrent for the next guy, especially since these terrorists believe in an afterlife. Image how much the typical Islamist thinks Osama is being rewarded by god for dying for the religion. This is what every Islamist wants.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Really? And allow him to continue as an inspiration to the Islamists, worldwide?

Feed him bacon every day. He won't be an inspiration to Islamists. As a martyr with 72 virgins, he is.

I heard the best way to prevent terrorism is to feed the body parts of dead terrorists to pigs. They believe they can't get to heaven that way.

Strategist says

I heard the best way to prevent terrorism is to feed the body parts of dead terrorists to pigs. They believe they can't get to heaven that way.

And how would that be mutually exclusive with denouncing Christianity as you would all other religions?

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

I heard the best way to prevent terrorism is to feed the body parts of dead terrorists to pigs. They believe they can't get to heaven that way.

And how would that be mutually exclusive with denouncing Christianity as you would all other religions?

Denouncing and stopping Islam is the priority. The other religions are not as dangerous as Islam.

Strategist says

Denouncing and stopping Islam is the priority. The other religions are not as dangerous as Islam.

Again, you are making the mistake of assuming two complimentary things are mutually exclusive. It's like arguing that your cannot cut wasteful spending before you increase taxes to balance the budget. No, those two things aren't mutually exclusive. They are complimentary to the goal of balancing the budget.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Denouncing and stopping Islam is the priority. The other religions are not as dangerous as Islam.

Again, you are making the mistake of assuming two complimentary things are mutually exclusive.

They are not complimentary. They are sworn enemies from day one.

Strategist says

They are not complimentary.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Fighting Islam with Christianity is like throwing charcoal on a wood fire. It may burn different, but it still burns.

I think you're ignoring the protective effects of Christianity.

Inoculations use bits of a weakened virus to give protection against a deadly virus.

It's just like inoculation. Christianity gives the people who need religion a benign and even very helpful outlook. If they didn't have Christianity, they'd be likely to turn to Islam, and there would be a lot more blood in the streets as they did what Islam commands them to.

I don't get it - why all faiths, in particular Christianity, must be defeated, in order to defeat Islam. It it is like saying "to defeat Communism, one must defeat Socialism."

Sweden is thoroughly secularized, They have defeated Christianity. It does not look like they will win against Islam. The less secularized Eastern Europe is doing a better job.

rando says

Inoculations use bits of a weakened virus to give protection against a deadly virus.

The biochemical machinery responsible for the success of vaccines do not have anything to do with the mechanism of faith. Allowing children to be brainwashed by Christianity is like giving them AIDS. It weakens their immune system against the infection of Islam. Who is more likely to convert to Islam, one who already believes in an all-powerful god and moral figure or an atheist who finds the idea of the supernatural ridiculous?

Another analogy. To keep people off crack, give them cocaine to snort. To keep people from abusing liquor, get them drunk on beer. To make sure you don't die of lung cancer, infect yourself with brain cancer.

Remember, Islam would not even exist if not for Judaism and Christianity.

The solution is to apply Rin-wah law ... "men shall bonk hoes and listen to classic rock."

If the above is applied, then peace shall prevail on earth.

Rin says

If the above is applied, then peace shall prevail on earth.

You jest, but I suspect that much terrorism is the result of young men not being able to get laid. And yes, I'm serious about that. Sexually frustrated young men with time on their hands and nothing to lose are very, very dangerous. In contrast, men who get laid regularly are generally laid back and happy, and unlikely to risk their happiness for some crazy cause or glory.

Dan8267 says

assuming two complimentary things are mutually exclusive

Strategist says

They are not complimentary. They are sworn enemies from day one.

It's complEmentary not complimentary (in this case).

A drunk non-native speaker knows your own language better than you.

Dan8267 says

Who is more likely to convert to Islam, one who already believes in an all-powerful god and moral figure or an atheist who finds the idea of the supernatural ridiculous?

***

Remember, Islam would not even exist if not for Judaism and Christianity.

Dan, about the history, you are right: the charlatan Mohamadman hijacked the Abrahamic tradition much as the 9/11 hijackers hijacked 767's. Also, at the individual level, you are right again: individual Christians can be converted to Islam more readily than atheists can.

OTOH, at the societal level, the empirical data seem to contradict your claim. As Patrick and 2Scoops pointed out, the comparatively more secular western European and left-leaning populations appear more vulnerable to hijrah. Sam Harris explained a likely reason: most secularists fail to understand how the world looks to a sincerely religious person. I've been lucky to know many religious people, and I can tell you that they believe. To the secular left, a religious label seems like a fashion label, but to sincerely religious people, religion defines the origin and ultimate purpose of life itself. As a result, secular societies appear more vulnerable to the delusion that radically antagonistic religions can "coexist", even when they can't. I wish that atheists in general could see that Islam says to kill them and importing believers is problematic, but surprisingly many refuse to see that really obvious fact, even when Muslims say so openly and refer to it on official flags that fly brazenly around the world.

None so blind as those who will not see.

Here is the flag of Saudi Arabia. For those who can't read Arabic, it states the Shehada: "There is no god but Allah, Mohamed is his prophet." They underline that statement with a sword, like the sword they would use to cut off your head. They call atheists terrorists, because even questioning the fundamentals of Islam undermines the foundation of their government.