patrick.net

Bomber's childhood friend became a gang rapist: Pal is in jail for luring a girl, 16, into hotel room and raping her with a mob of attackers

Manchester bomber Salman Abedi used to hang around with Bilal Ahmed
Ahmed is now serving nine-year prison sentence for gang raping a schoolgirl, 16
He and two others jailed for a total of 31 years after all being convicted of rape
Ahmed and Salman Abedi used to hang out on their South Manchester estates

The rape of course was not put down to terrorism, just "Crime".
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4539572/Manchester-bomber-friend-jail-gang-raping-girl-16.html

‘It is also important to note that Hashem left the UK on April 16 and said he was in constant contact with his brother, the executor of the operation.’

Last night it emerged that the father of the British-born boys has publicly voiced his support for an extremist group fighting in Syria.

He posted photos of soldiers clad in black uniforms from the Al-Nusra Front, which was the official Syrian branch of Al Qaeda until it broke up last July, on his Facebook page five years ago. Underneath the photo, he wrote: ‘Victorious against the infidels... say Amen!’

Ramadan, a former airport security worker in the UK, also published a picture of Hashem holding a machine gun while wearing a Nike T-shirt and combat trousers. Underneath the picture he wrote: ‘The lion Hashem... is training.’

And in another post, he incited his followers to rise up against soldiers who served under former dictator Muammar Gaddafi.

Last night a former Libyan security official claimed the father had been a member of a former Al Qaeda-backed group in Libya.

According to the Associated Press news agency, ex-Libyan security official Abdel-Basit Haroun said he personally knew Ramadan, and that he had been a member of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) in the 1990s. The group had links to Al Qaeda.

Although the LIFG has since disbanded, Mr Haroun alleged the father belonged to the Salafi Jihadi movement, the most extreme sect of Salafism and from which Al Qaeda and the Islamic State group hail.

Is it common sense to allow people to travel and back forth from countries experiencing Civil War where religious extremists feature greatly?

Takeaway: State security personnel are more interested in keeping tabs on people than keeping them from terrorizing.

Many Libyans were allowed to flee to the UK - Manchester has the largest contingent - in the 90s to escape "Persecution" by Ghaddafyi. Anybody who wanted "Change" (ie reimposition of Shari'a Law) was a "Regime Target". Most of them were members of the Libyan Islamic Fighters Group, which was instrumental in the overthrow of Ghaddfyi. One of their leaders even became head of the Military Council, the forerunner of the current Government.
https://www.channel4.com/news/the-teenage-libyan-rebel-from-manchester

Again, politicians and media claim "Moderate Rebels" and imply they are freedom fighters against a Tyrant, when they really are largely or even wholly Islamist Jihadis.

The UK is allowing thousands of ISIS Volunteers and "Jihadi Wives" back, even though they know where they are going. Meanwhile, Kurdish UK citizens are arrested the moment they book a ticket to fight with the Peshmurga. WTF is going on?

www.youtube.com/embed/6eHF1vZ1sJc

One final point:

There are 480 Muslims in the army out of an overall strength of 88,500 – 0.54%, an increase from 300 in 2008. Muslims comprise about 4.4% of the UK population according to the 2011 census.

The Number of British Citizens joining ISIS alone in Syria (not counting Iraq, Libya, etc. or those fighting with Al Qaeda or other Jihadi Groups) currently is 760. That's the amount the UK Government knows about, and just those currently there, not who have returned.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/29/iraq-and-syria-how-many-foreign-fighters-are-fighting-for-isil/

Keep in mind the Muslim Population in Britain has far, far more young people than the general British Population demographically.

480 in the Army; 760 known to be currently volunteering with ISIS.

Holy Shit.

FP says

FP says

Hey socal2, are you OK?

I am concerned that you are trying too hard

You are trying to troll, and failing, as when you called me a "monkey" because I demolished one of your misleading arguments. Either way, your feeble attempts to troll people, and your motivation for doing so, are off topic.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

The Number of British Citizens joining ISIS alone in Syria (not counting Iraq, Libya, etc. or those fighting with Al Qaeda or other Jihadi Groups) currently is 760.

Hopefully they mean "former" British citizens.

Joining ISIS should result in immediate revocation of citizenship and deportation of the entire extended family of the terrorist.

curious2 says

FP says

FP says

Hey socal2, are you OK?

I am concerned that you are trying too hard

You are trying to troll, and failing, as when you called me a "monkey" because I demolished one of your misleading arguments. Either way, your feeble attempts to troll people, and your motivation for doing so, are off topic.

I am impressed by your abilities.

What do you think about socal2's thinking - is he trying too hard?

rando says

Joining ISIS should result in immediate revocation of citizenship.

The rich would join ISIS for a day as "medics" in order to not have to pay taxes again.

Strategist says

FortWayne says

Strategist, there is a lot of people who do need that to be the basis of morality. It really is not common sense. A child isn't born with any of that. Morality is taught, and if we don't have faith that preaches that, well, we won't have a moral society.

Are you telling me not murdering someone can only be taught by religion?

Atheists Now Make Up 0.1% of the Federal Prison Population

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/08/21/atheists-now-make-up-0-1-of-the-federal-prison-population/

It is taught by society. Kids learn through observation. Atheist or not, you are growing, you are observing, and that's how we all learn. In America we are taught from day one to respect others and love thy neighbor. In ISIS territories they are taught to murder us, you probably seen that report of how that propaganda works out there. And that's what we all get.

It is why religion (Christianity) is so important, it makes for a better society. It teaches love and forgiveness, it teaches second chances. A true "American" value.

Strategist just in case here it is:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/isis-teaches-children-behead-training-camps/story?id=25303940
(ISIS teaches kids to murder and hate us) And that's just one report showing ISIS glorifying murder of America, there are many more.

FP says

What do you think about socal2's thinking - is he trying too hard?

Dude - I wish you would try a little harder to think instead of snark. Smugly is not a good look. Especially if you are ignorant.

Just a few days ago you were displaying your lack of thinking for all to see as you really didn't seem to know that Catholics not only believe and teach evolution, but Catholic priests and monks were at the forefront of evolutionary research.

All of a sudden, Trump's travel ban to evaluate the safety of immigrant vetting doesn't seem far out of left field.

Yep. His whole family has been back and forth to Libya.

BTW, the reason his dad was allowed to come into the UK to begin with was as an "Oppressed Refugee" because of his Extreme Islamism which was being oppressed by Ghaddafyi.

socal2 says

Dude - I wish you would try a little harder to think instead of snark

Never mind me. I have a propensity for thinking without trying hard. I am concerned for those who stain themselves doing it. Especially when they suffer from diarrhea. So take it easy.

FortWayne says

It teaches love and forgiveness, it teaches second chances.

Bullshit. The most hateful, hang them high assholes in our society are the most fervent religious.

Furthermore, there is nothing necessary or even useful in religion for teaching empathy, compassion, or forgiveness. This things can easily be taught with zero supernatural bullshit, zero rewriting of history, and zero mythology.

In fact, true morality can only be taught in the absence of religion. If you behave a certain way solely because it's in your best interests because some asshole sky daddy will have you tortured forever if you don't, then it's not morality, but only fear. The religious cannot distinguish between morality and fear.

FP says

I have a propensity for thinking without trying hard.

I think you have made that abundantly clear with your contributions FP.

It's OK to try a little harder - it won't hurt you.

socal2 says

It's OK to try a little harder - it won't hurt you.

No, it will not, unlike you it will not strain me.
But let's try to keep the plying field more even.

Dan8267 says

Bullshit. The most hateful, hang them high assholes in our society are the most fervent religious.

The only one hateful around here is you Dan. And you juts give atheists a bad name, since everyone else doesn't have your issues.

Dan8267 says

Furthermore, there is nothing necessary or even useful in religion for teaching empathy, compassion, or forgiveness. This things can easily be taught with zero supernatural bullshit, zero rewriting of history, and zero mythology.

It can't be taught without Christian god, because all those things need a higher moral authority.
And as far as rewriting history, that's your side... your team keeps on removing statues down South, and sanitizing out of society any information about Americas past. It's your side rewriting history, the rest of us are just trying to hold on to it so we can remember the past in order to make a better future.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

Furthermore, there is nothing necessary or even useful in religion for teaching empathy, compassion, or forgiveness.

It can't be taught without Christian god, because all those things need a higher moral authority.

Have you been baptizing monkeys in your church, because:

https://www.ted.com/talks/frans_de_waal_do_animals_have_morals

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

Furthermore, there is nothing necessary or even useful in religion for teaching empathy, compassion, or forgiveness. This things can easily be taught with zero supernatural bullshit, zero rewriting of history, and zero mythology.

It can't be taught without Christian god, because all those things need a higher moral authority.

This is a myth spewed by Churches. Everyone thinks it's their religion that is the best, superior, and only way to heaven.
FortWayne, if what you say is true, how do you explain the fact that hardly any atheists are in prison, while they are full of Christians.

Laiming to be a Christian doesn't make one a Christian. Otherwise no idea, statistics can be misleading... since according to statistics speaking English gives cancer.

Strategist says

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

Furthermore, there is nothing necessary or even useful in religion for teaching empathy, compassion, or forgiveness. This things can easily be taught with zero supernatural bullshit, zero rewriting of history, and zero mythology.

It can't be taught without Christian god, because all those things need a higher moral authority.

This is a myth spewed by Churches. Everyone thinks it's their religion that is the best, superior, and only way to heaven.

FortWayne, if what you say is true, how do you explain the fact that hardly any atheists are in prison, while they are full of Christians.

Salman Abedi launched his suicide attack out of ‘a love of Islam’ and in twisted revenge for US airstrikes on Syria, his sister has claimed.

Jamona Abedi failed to condemn her brother’s murderous actions but instead claimed to offer an explanation for the atrocity, in which 22 innocent people, many of them children, were killed.

Miss Abedi, who lives in the Libyan capital Tripoli, said her brother had become increasingly violent over the course of the past year, convinced that Muslims were under attack both in the UK and abroad.

How many Muslim Girls were bombed in the UK by the EDF or others? Oh, none.

The UK is not involved in Syria.

We need to seriously consider how many Libyan latent terrorists we let into the country under the "But they'll be oppressed under Ghaddafi for their pro-Shari'a Beliefs".

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Salman Abedi launched his suicide attack out of ‘a love of Islam’

Listen you Islam apologists, just listen. They keep giving very consistent answers for their terrorist acts, and we keep denying it.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

How many Muslim Girls were bombed in the UK by the EDF or others? Oh, none.

The UK is not involved in Syria.

You'd think they would be happy with the UK for helping them get rid of Ghadaffi.

socal2 says

You'd think they would be happy with the UK for helping them get rid of Ghadaffi.

Yep,and you'd think the Taliban would be happy with us helping to rid them of the Soviets.

Or the Saudi Arabian Wahabi "Foreign Fighters" with us protecting them from Saddam Hussein.

Strategist says

FortWayne, if what you say is true, how do you explain the fact that hardly any atheists are in prison, while they are full of Christians.

Atheists make up only 3% of the US population. So it is not surprising they make us a small percentage of our prison population. Would you consider all the gang bangers in our prisons as devout Christians? MI13 gang members may claim to be Catholic, but their actions would cause them to be formally excommunicated by the church.

Marxism was the most destructive man-made ideology of the 20th century. Hundreds of millions were killed by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot in 50 short years. Nothing else short of the plague comes close to that much death and destruction in such a short period of time. The Marxist versions practiced in Russia, China and Cambodia was explicitly anti-religious.
Marxist–Leninist governments in the twentieth century, such as the Soviet Union after Lenin and the People's Republic of China, implemented rules introducing state atheism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism_and_religion

If "religion" has to own every bad thing that happened over the last 4,000+ years by people born into a religious family. Is it really not fair to link atheism to some (not all) of the murderous actions of Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao when their Marxist ideology was explicitly anti-religious?

The left repels reality to fit their diversity quotas.

Strategist says

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Salman Abedi launched his suicide attack out of ‘a love of Islam’

Listen you Islam apologists, just listen. They keep giving very consistent answers for their terrorist acts, and we keep denying it.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

ep,and you'd think the Taliban would be happy with us helping to rid them of the Soviets.

Or the Saudi Arabian Wahabi "Foreign Fighters" with us protecting them from Saddam Hussein.

The vast majority of America's actions since WWII until 9/11 was in support of Muslim populations.

- We helped Muslims kick out the USSR from Afghanistan
- We helped Balkan Muslims against Christian Serbs
- We helped Saudi Arabia and Kuwait against "secular" Saddam Hussein in Gulf War 1
- We even sided with Egypt against Israel, France and the UK during the Suez crisis

And since 9/11 we sided with majority Sunni and Shia populations against the secular Saddam and Assad.

Islam has no legitimate beef against America. I suppose they can complain that we have not been too successful from keeping primitive Muslims from killing each other in Iraq and Syria by the hundreds of thousands. But make no mistake, the vast majority of deaths in the Middle East since 9/11 is from Muslims killing their fellow Muslims........and Muslims killing Christians, Yazidiz, gays, and secular groups.

The #1 Reason Islam hates America is that we are the strongest of the Kuffars.

Just wait until they start tussling with China, there will be no padding on the gloves then.

I think it is important to point out that the whole Islamic world is very weak and ineffective.

Islam holds them back.

socal2 says

If "religion" has to own every bad thing that happened over the last 4,000+ years by people born into a religious family. Is it really not fair to link atheism to some (not all) of the murderous actions of Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao when their Marxist ideology was explicitly anti-religious?

Our own resident atheist Dan would likely go down that same dark road if given power. From the hateful things he's said and totalitarian proposals he's made, it's obvious that atheists will stop at nothing to remake the world in their image. Which is why he's constantly defending Islam, pretty similar levels of intolerance!

socal2 says

- We helped Muslims kick out the USSR from Afghanistan

- We helped Balkan Muslims against Christian Serbs

- We helped Saudi Arabia and Kuwait against "secular" Saddam Hussein in Gulf War 1

- We even sided with Egypt against Israel, France and the UK during the Suez crisis

And they send their suicide bombers to thank us everyday. Ungrateful bastards.

Quigley says

Our own resident atheist Dan would likely go down that same dark road if given power. From the hateful things he's said and totalitarian proposals he's made, it's obvious that atheists will stop at nothing to remake the world in their image.

Dan is definitely one of the bigger totalitarians here at Patrick.net. Between his Orwellian Doublespeak in how he likes to inverse Conservatives with Liberals and his cock-sure prescriptions to use the power of the State to make "heaven on earth". It just drives him ape that some Christians and Jews stand in the way of his master plans.

Communist/Marxist regimes were filled with little technocrat toadies like Dan.

That shit is so done and dusted, but some people never seem to learn from history.

socal2 says

Communist/Marxist regimes were filled with little technocrat toadies like Dan

I've dubbed people like that Little Soviets--they are the human incarnation of the impulses that animated the Soviet Union for 70 plus years--you might add no sense of humor as well. We defeated national Marxism but not the impulses it was based upon. Those who were orphaned are clambering aboard the bandwagon of climate change/global warming/environmentalism.

Anybody wonder why the Bomber's brothers and father are in Tripoli right now?

Heavy clashes erupted in the Libyan capital Tripoli on Friday, as armed groups aligned with the U.N.-backed government fought to fend off a major offensive by rival Islamist-leaning forces and militia fighters.

Loud explosions and heavy artillery fire could be heard across Tripoli from early morning. At least 28 people were killed in the violence and more than 120 wounded, according to health officials.

The U.N.-backed Government of National Accord (GNA) issued a statement blaming the attack on Khalifa Ghwell, the head of a self-declared, Islamist-leaning "national salvation government" that was set up in 2014, and Salah Badi, an allied militia leader.

It was unclear how much territory either side had gained. But late on Friday a spokesman for the judicial police said a GNA-aligned faction had gained control of the Al-Hadba prison, which holds several high profile inmates including one of former leader Muammar Gaddafi's sons and his military intelligence chief.

I kinda doubt they're fighting with the government forces.

FortWayne says

The only one hateful around here is you Dan. And you juts give atheists a bad name, since everyone else doesn't have your issues.

This is a blatant poisoning of the well argument. There is no hatred in me, and you are a lying sack of shit for trying to character assissinate me. I can oppose evil, whether it be Islamic terrorism or Christian sabotaging of human rights and necessary environmental police, without being hateful. You cannot understand that because you are hateful. You hate homosexuals. You hate atheists. You hate people of opposing religions. You hate communists. You hate the conservative left. You hate everyone who isn't in your narrow-minded tribe. So, of course, you cannot understand that another person could be motivated by something other than hate. I'm motivated by my strong engineering instinct to refine and improve systems. You will never understand that.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

Furthermore, there is nothing necessary or even useful in religion for teaching empathy, compassion, or forgiveness. This things can easily be taught with zero supernatural bullshit, zero rewriting of history, and zero mythology.

It can't be taught without Christian god, because all those things need a higher moral authority.

Bullshit. If you are "forgiving" someone only because you are trying to get into heaven or avoid being tortured in hell, you aren't actually forgiving someone.

And I don't need your false god to empathize with another human being, or another animal, or even a sentient A.I. You statement is empirically false. I have empathy, compassion, and forgiveness while completely disbelieving in your ridiculous god. How do you explain that? I'm a living, breathing example that your are wrong.

Furthermore, history completely discredits your assertions. Western civilization was most Christian and most religious during the Dark Ages, a time when empathy, compassion, and forgiveness were at an all time low. History matters.
rando says

Islam holds them back.

This is true. It is also the reason western civilization literally lost a thousand years of progress due to Christianity. For an entire millennia, Christianity did to Europe what Islam is doing to the Middle East, stifling progress. You never, ever, without exception, see technological or social progress in a highly religious society. It never matters what the religion is. They all prevent progress.

Quigley says

Our own resident atheist Dan would likely go down that same dark road if given power. From the hateful things he's said and totalitarian proposals he's made, it's obvious that atheists will stop at nothing to remake the world in their image. Which is why he's constantly defending Islam, pretty similar levels of intolerance!

Well, if we're painting our opposition as demons, let me remind you that Christian clergy are a bunch of kiddie rapists. That's an empirical fact, unlike your ridiculous conjecture.

socal2 says

Between his Orwellian Doublespeak in how he likes to inverse Conservatives with Liberals

A liberal believes in equality under the law, transparency in government, and that everyone should be allowed to do what they want as long as they aren't violating other people's rights. Exactly which of these principles do you disagree with?

No double speak here. I made it clear what liberal philosophy is and how to apply it.

Someone who restricts speech is a conservative, by definition, regardless of what particular speech they are restricting. Silencing rock-and-roll, and silencing men's rights speeches, and silencing profanity or indecent conversation, and silencing anti-war protests are all the same thing. It's all censorship, and it's all conservative.

Islamist are conservatives. You cannot make an honest case that ISIS is full of liberals. The idea that conservatives are only the conservative right is a lie. Hell, what constitutes the left and the right varies from country to country and from decade to decade. Today the conservative right likes beer. In the early 20th century, they were prohibitionists. The arbitrary cultural preferences can change, but the tactics and fundamental ideology is the same. My tribe is the only tribe that matters. All other tribes must submit or die. That's conservatism.

It's really sad that you conservatives always feel the need to lie about things to support your case. The truth never supports your statements.

P N Dr Lo R says

socal2 says

Communist/Marxist regimes were filled with little technocrat toadies like Dan

I've dubbed people like that Little Soviets

And your example illustrates how false your premise is. The Soviets were leftists, but they sure as hell weren't liberals. They were extremely conservative. They believed in suppressing all speech and limiting liberty as much as possible. Being on the political left does not make one liberal at all.

I've even painted a picture for you. If you cannot understand this image, that's your intellectual failing. It's not that hard to understand.

Dan8267 says

Bullshit. If you are "forgiving" someone only because you are trying to get into heaven or avoid being tortured in hell, you aren't actually forgiving someone.

Hey, that makes sense to me. Truly forgiving someone can only come with no selfish motives.
For $10 million i might even forgive Osama Bin Laden.

Obama made a grave mistake killing bin Laden. He's now a martyr. Obama should have brought his ass back to New York City to stand trial. It would have been a show of strength and resolve that our form of government cannot be damaged by terrorism, and that the long arm of the law is truly long.