patrick.net

FortWayne says

I'm not hypocritical, we are a Christian nation.

That is the epitome of hypocrisy. If you call America "a Christian nation" then you don't believe in freedom of religion but rather a few state sponsored religions. That's the exact oppose of freedom of religion. And that makes it hypocrisy.

socal2 says

But that won't stop Dan and the SJW types that try and project Islam's manifest problems on peaceful Christians, Jews, Hindus and Bahai's under the guise of "religion".

For 90% of its existence, Christianity was as evil, violent, and despicable as Islam today. The only reason it's not right now is that the past 200 years of secularism, agnosticism, and atheism has weaken Christian faith to a tiny fraction of what it used to be.

If Christian faith were made again as strong as Islamic faith, Christians would be torturing and killing people and committing genocide like they have from the foundation of the faith up until WWII.

If you waved a magic wand and replaced the belief in Islam with the belief in Christianity, the Muslims converted to Christianity would be killing in the name of Jesus. You are a fool if you believe otherwise.

Faith is irrational and therefore subject to manipulation for violence. And there is no up side to faith.

Your life just got saved...

Rin says

This sucks because it's legal to see hoes in England.

Dan8267 says

If you waved a magic wand and replaced the belief in Islam with the belief in Christianity, the Muslims converted to Christianity would be killing in the name of Jesus. You are a fool if you believe otherwise.

Dan, read the New Testament and then read the Koran.

The tone is dramatically different between them (forgiveness vs butt-hurt anger). They are just not going to have the same effect on believers. If you think the believers are going to behave identically, you're assuming that very different inputs will necessarily result in the same output. That's just bad science at the very least.

Dan8267 says

FortWayne says

I'm not hypocritical, we are a Christian nation.

That is the epitome of hypocrisy. If you call America "a Christian nation" then you don't believe in freedom of religion but rather a few state sponsored religions. That's the exact oppose of freedom of religion. And that makes it hypocrisy.

@Dan - I'm really disappointed in you right now. I'm not even joking.

rando says

Glad I got a screenshot while it was possible.

Yes. Saudis own more of Twitter than Jack Dorsey does, and they use it as part of their "Muslim world plan" to stop anyone saying anything "bad" (meaning accurate) about their hateful charlatan and his horrible fraud. Instead, we're seeing already the MSM bleating their usual platitudes about how civilized people must condemn only the latest act, not the doctrine that commands more of the same, nor those who advocate spreading that doctrine.

BlueSardine says

Because georgies didn't franchise out...

Are you the new resident homophobe, then? Are you a self-hating closeted homo like the last one?

socal2 says

Dan8267 says

For 90% of its existence, Christianity was as evil, violent, and despicable as Islam today.

Nope - try and read a history book Dan. You haven't a clue.

Maybe you should. One with pictures so you'll understand.

socal2 says

There are millions and millions of super devout and fundamentalist Christians

The ones bombing abortion clinics? The ones telling Africans it's a sin to use condoms and thus causing an AIDS epidemic?

And let's not forget the Holocaust and slavery, two relatively recent events in the 2000 year history of Christianity.

Even excluding those two things, you have to completely disregard 80% of Christian history to make the case that Christianity is fundamentally different. The fact is that Christians have behaved appallingly throughout the vast majority of their history and were only recently stopped by having their religions castrated.

The faith of even the most fervent Christian today is nothing compared to the average Christian in medieval Europe.

Putin Fanboy says

.

Correct. I am an obstacle who stands in the way of you taking delight over the murder of children and using the tragedy to taunt fake enemies on a website.

You are deplorable.

Right, fake enemies. They're the enablers of people who kill children, because they're more worried about some people's Feelz than actual mass murder of kids.

We can't have common sense immigration restrictions and deportation of radicals, because it might make some people feel like they're prejudiced against. Boo Fuckin' Hoo

They are a real enemy, who is preventing society from dealing with Religious Fascism. It's more important they feel good about themselves as nice people.

just any guy says

@Dan - I'm really disappointed in you right now. I'm not even joking.

An unjustified opinion carries no weight. I can justify my statements of Christianity based on hard historical evidence spanning 2000 years.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/05/22/ariana-grande-concert-attack-at-least-19-killed-50-hurt-in-terrorist-incident.html

fox news report on it, pretty good commentary by Nigel Farel (that british brexit dude)

Terrorists attacked children. Trump should ban more countries from immigrating here.

Dan8267 says

That is the epitome of hypocrisy. If you call America "a Christian nation" then you don't believe in freedom of religion but rather a few state sponsored religions. That's the exact oppose of freedom of religion. And that makes it hypocrisy.

It's about America and American values. If you come here and your religion says to kill America, than get out. It's simple and clear enough.

Why do you guys always blame Muslims? WTF is wrong with you.

Don't #PrayForManchester. Say #NoMoreManchesters

We tried these tactics repeatedly and they demonstrably don't work:

rando says

Dan, read the New Testament and then read the Koran.

So your premise is that Christianity is a good religion because the New Testament teaches good things and thus Christianity would not be a force for evil.

When exactly was the New Testament written? If it's not a new addition to Christianity within the past 200 years, then your premise is empirically false.

The medieval Christian read the exact same New Testament that you read. Yet, he drowns women and children, burns people alive, tortures people in the most horrific ways, and slaughtered non-believers in the name of the Christian god. Even before Christianity was legalized by the Roman government, Christians attacked and murdered Jews. They did this after the New Testament was written.

They skinned Hypatia to death after the New Testament was written. They waged religious wars and committed the worst atrocities in history all after the New Testament was written. They raped children they kept as slaves after the New Testament was written. The slavers quoted the New Testament as justification for slavery. They burned Jews in ovens after the New Testament was written.

If the New Testament is such a good moral guide for Christianity, how the hell do you explain all of the past two millennia of Christian atrocities, all of which occurred after the New Testament was written?

Your premise is disproved by all of Christian history. It's not the New Testament that is responsible for keeping Christianity in line today. It's secularism. Secularism today would not tolerate wars between Catholics and Protestants. Just look at the Troubles in Ireland. Secularism would not tolerate Christians killing Jews today because of the memory of the Holocaust. Secularism today won't tolerate Christian raping of slave children. And it's secularism, not the New Testament, that has changed in the past 200 years.

It does not matter how "nice" you make the stories in a holy book. All religions are corruptible precisely because they require faith and do not allow questioning the faith. No faith can live up to questioning, so reason and evidence must be made irrelevant to the flock, and that makes the flock dangerous.

And don't be fooled into thinking that because Christianity is mostly under control today -- although it still causes great harm to our society -- that it will forever remain that way. It can easily become radicalized just like Islam. Remember, Islam was for a while a more compassionate and tolerate religion in the middle ages even promoting science and questions. See Carol Sagan's original The Cosmos for details. Islam was later radicalized. Christianity was radical for 80% of it's existence. It would be ridiculous to think it's impossible for it to be radicalized again.

And again, there is absolutely no upside to irrationality, delusion, and the unquestioning belief in lies.

FortWayne says

If you come here and your religion says to kill America, than get out.

Like I said, you don't believe in freedom of religion any more than I do. The difference is that I'm honest about it.

curious2 says

Yes. Saudis own more of Twitter than Jack Dorsey does,

Could they close Trump's account? 'Cause that might make me support them a bit.

Dan8267 says

And again, there is absolutely no upside to irrationality, delusion, and the unquestioning belief in lies.

When are you gonna stop attacking Christianity for it's past deeds, when it's Islamic terror that we face today?

Some fuckers are hard of hearing: BE CAREFUL WHO YOU PISS OFF!
It doesn't matter what one thinks,all that matters is the reason the Pissed Off are Pissed Off.
It's really not difficult to understand but it does require thinking.

HEY YOU says

Some fuckers are hard of hearing: BE CAREFUL WHO YOU PISS OFF!

It doesn't matter what one thinks,all that matters is the reason the Pissed Off are Pissed Off.

It's really not difficult to understand but it does require thinking.

Are you implying we are pissing off the Muslims? If so, you living in a fairy tale.

Strategist says

When are you gonna stop attacking Christianity for it's past deeds

I'm attacking all religion for its nature. Quite frankly, it's stupid to take the position that the present state of affairs is the only thing you should look at. There is no reason to believe that the present relatively tamed Christianity will persist over the next hundred, nonetheless thousand, years. That is extremely foolish.

Furthermore, Christianity does real harm in our society today, far more than Islam does because it's ingrained in our society unlike Islam. So it's not an ignorable problem. Christianity in America can very well lead to the extinction of our species. Islam does not threaten our species extinction.

Yes, that's right. Christianity threatens our species survival more than Islam does. Islam is primitive and barbaric, and thus is not an existential threat. In contrast, Christianity causes the senator in charge of climate change policy to believe that nothing needs to be done because his god promised Noah he won't destroy the Earth in a flood again. This actually affects the policies of the most powerful nation on Earth regarding the most important issue on Earth today. Ecological collapse is an extinction event as much as nuclear war. So yes, Christianity threatens the existence of our species more than Islam does. That is plenty justification for opposing the nonsense.

Furthermore, supporting any irrational superstitious nonsense only serves to further the acceptability and propagation of other irrational superstitious nonsense. You don't fight irrational beliefs with other irrational beliefs. That's just retarded. You can only fight irrational beliefs with rationality, reasoning, and promoting an evidence-based outlook on life. Supporting Christianity is ultimately supporting the same irrational base that makes Islam popular. Thus supporting Christianity is supporting Islam.

The real war is not between Christianity and Islam. The real war is between rationality and irrationality, between science and faith, between evidence and superstition, between naturalism and mysticism. If you tolerate any superstitious nonsense, you support all superstitious nonsense even if that's not your intent.

www.youtube.com/embed/05cpUduvDGQ

Video of British Police officer reporting details.

curious2 says

Yes. Saudis own more of Twitter than Jack Dorsey does, and they use it as part of their "Muslim world plan" to stop anyone saying anything "bad" (meaning accurate) about their hateful charlatan and his horrible fraud.

Didn't know about this, but it's true:

https://www.dawn.com/news/1322728

https://richarddawkins.net/2017/03/move-to-devise-muslim-world-plan-against-blasphemous-content/

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

When are you gonna stop attacking Christianity for it's past deeds

I'm attacking all religion for its nature. Quite frankly, it's stupid to take the position that the present state of affairs is the only thing you should look at. There is no reason to believe that the present relatively tamed Christianity will persist over the next hundred, nonetheless thousand, years. That is extremely foolish.

More and more people are following secular values. Get real.

Dan8267 says

Furthermore, Christianity does real harm in our society today, far more than Islam does because it's ingrained in our society unlike Islam. So it's not an ignorable problem. Christianity in America can very well lead to the extinction of our species. Islam does not threaten our species extinction.

Islam threatens our lives, our freedoms, and our prosperity. When will you understand that.
Christianity does not threaten our species at all.

Dan8267 says

The real war is not between Christianity and Islam. The real war is between rationality and irrationality, between science and faith, between evidence and superstition, between naturalism and mysticism. If you tolerate any superstitious nonsense, you support all superstitious nonsense even if that's not your intent.

The real war today is between Islam and the rest of the world.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

Strategist says

Get real.

Wow, that's such a compelling argument. You win. No evidence required. No addressing of the arguments I made is necessary. You just outright win with that quip.

Strategist says

Islam threatens our lives, our freedoms, and our prosperity.

As does Christianity. Christianity threatens our lives with foolish policy making as I illustrated above. It threatens our freedom every day, making things that should be legal into crimes. It threatens prosperity for the same reason.

Strategist says

The real war today is between Islam and the rest of the world.

Are you incapability of anything beyond simply contradicting your opponent with baseless assertions?

In any case, the best way to win the war against Islam is to win the larger war against religion and irrationality. Only a fool cannot see this. Even if you got rid of Islam overnight, allowing irrationality to fester would simply result in some other religion waging war against the rest of the world. This is the most repeated lesson of history. Only fools ignore it.

Strategist says

Islam threatens our lives,

more so than the climate change deniers??

Dan8267 says

And there is no up side to faith

Actually we don't know that. That's like saying there is no upside to humanity. You can make a logical argument as to why we can have morality without religion, and you can cite examples of individuals who are moral without religion, but as a whole collective group of humanity, we always had religion. It has not been proven what happens when you have no religion.

I'm not arguing that religion is a precondition for having values that allow civilization to work. It's just that we don't know that it is not the case. Jordan Peterson makes the case better than I can.
(Note: I don't expect you would ever listen and comprehend this argument without being triggered and reacting long before you've comprehended the point in its entirety).

www.youtube.com/embed/wwi9Q9apHGI

marcus says

I'm not arguing that religion is a precondition for having values that allow civilization to work. It's just that we don't know that it is not the case.

Nonsense. We know very well that religion is not a precondition for values.

On an individual level yes, but as an entire culture ? What successful cultures do you want to cite that didn't have religion ? Modern western culture as it developed through Europe and America certainly can be said to have a religious foundation supporting our values. But it has grown and matured. Great American philosophical thinkers such as Emerson and Thoreau didn't reject religion all together, but they had a much more sophisticated approach to it. This idea of a more sophisticated "spirituality" that is not based on a sky daddy goes way back.

Confirmed suicide bombing. 99.9% chance it was Islam at this point.

Now the question is how many more people have to die before European countries collectively do something about their Muslim problem?

Dan8267 says

Religion is exactly what is motivating people to blow other people up.

Toxic tribalism can come in many forms. The most murderous group in recent history are the communists, who were united in their atheism.

Perhaps we should ban atheism.

https://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_humanity_s_stairway_to_self_transcendence

Loyalty to a group has proven more evolutionary advantageous than logical thinking. People will always join into groups that make no sense to outsiders, especially if they have a unified enemy.

More sites are running the owys663 Tweets:

Know Your Meme

It's interesting to watch the reports via Google News. So far, it's mainly outside the NATO disinformation bubble. East Asian, Indian, and Eastern European publications have it, but the NATO bubble is waiting for official confirmation from sources that might no longer be available since Twitter is deleting accounts. The perpetrators get deleted, so they can't claim responsibility, so MSM report no official claim of responsibility. I had previously underestimated Google News, because its linked sites are heavily influenced by PR campaigns, but now I see it's valuable for precisely that reason: it shows what stories are being promoted, and what stories are being suppressed.

marcus says

What successful cultures do you want to cite that didn't have religion ?

Perhaps the Internet doesn't work where you are, or nobody has taught you how to use a search engine. You might consider China (61% atheist, 6% religious), and several other successful countries have wide majorities who are not religious. You don't know what "we always had" unless you are a lot older and better read than you appear to be.

Within American culture, religion correlates with (on average) lower IQ, less education, and less ethical, more selfish behavior. Those are aggregate statistics of course, subject to individual variation, which a math teacher can try to explain to you. It seems notable though that a guy who calls everyone "dimbulbs" and doesn't get vaccinated advocates beliefs that correlate with lower IQ, less education, and less ethical behavior.

Returning to the specific topic of the thread, people who advocate spreading Islam are advocating more such attacks in the west. The Muslim world had even more lethal suicide bombings in recent days, e.g. another 50 in Basra on Friday, but they don't even make much news anymore because they are so commonplace. When someone tells you he wants to bring Islam to the west, he is telling you either (a) he wants to kill western teenagers and young adults and (b) he wants to poison and destroy western liberalism by injecting the most illiberal and lethal religion on earth, or (c) he's delusional.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Don't #PrayForManchester. Say #NoMoreManchesters

We tried these tactics repeatedly and they demonstrably don't work:

11. Bring back Hitler

carrieon says

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Don't #PrayForManchester. Say #NoMoreManchesters

We tried these tactics repeatedly and they demonstrably don't work:

11. Bring back Hitler

The left are #rorschachracists

In all seriousness, this would go a long way towards tamping down the violence.
Or, it could start WWIII, which would be over in a nuclear second...

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

The whole world needs to put cartoons of Mohammed sucking goat dicks on every single web page and put bacon sandwiches on every single menu by law. What am I missing here by way of institutional insults to the cult?

Considering all the world wars started over there, the odds are they do nothing.
they seem to like and invite death and destruction...

epitaph says

Confirmed suicide bombing. 99.9% chance it was Islam at this point.

Now the question is how many more people have to die before European countries collectively do something about their Muslim problem?

curious2 says

You might consider China (61% atheist, 6% religious),

Most internet sources put the percentage of atheists in china under 50%. Perhaps those answering that particular survey thought it was by the government and that they were supposed to say atheist. Several souces I checked put the highest at 47%.

But I don't consider China a successful culture. They exist, and have huge influence in the world, but a majority of the people are miserable.

curious2 says

advocates beliefs that correlate with lower IQ, less education, and less ethical behavior.

You'e such an arrogant small minded hateful and little person. I'm not advocating for beliefs. But I am agreeing with Jordan Peterson, that the values of western culture are not independent from religion.

Each of your sources were extremely weak. Especially the surveys that asked people if religion was an important part of their daily life. Wtf ?

Please don't even go back and try to understand my comment, you're wasting your time. And the (Patnet) world gets it, you're a hateful tiny pathetic little person, maybe some self help courses or books about personal growth are in order ? Let me know if you'd like me to recommend something.

marcus says

On an individual level yes, but as an entire culture ? What successful cultures do you want to cite that didn't have religion ?

curious2 already answered your question partially, but let me add:

1. How do you define a successful culture?
2. There were and are countries where religion did not play a significant role. People there had and have values.
3. The number of atheists and agnostics is under-represented. For example, if you ask my father, he'll tell you that he is a christian. But nothing in his actions reflects reflects this. He goes to churches only as a tourists and he has not read neither the old nor the new testament.
4. If individuals can have values without a religion, why can't whole societies?
5. Considering the variety of religions, what exactly is the common among all them that attributes to the believers values?

I can see that some common set of beliefs/ideology is beneficial (perhaps essential) for uniting a society. But it does not have to be belief in supernatural powers (magic).