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What you can do about Islamic terrorism


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2017 May 25, 9:24am   66,677 views  220 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (59)   💰tip   ignore  

The most important thing is to tell the truth no matter how much they shout "Islamophobia!"

The media and most of our so-called "leaders" still refuse to tell the truth that Islamic terrorism is caused by Islam itself.

Some countries in Europe have gone so far as to make it illegal to tell the truth about Islam. It takes courage to fight Islamic bombs and hate with mere words of sincere honesty, especially when you will be mocked by the media, perhaps fired from your job, and maybe even fined or imprisoned.

Bogus arguments that you can easily refute:

  • "Saying bad things about Islam is Islamophobic".

    What if those things are true, and well documented by Muslims themselves? Doesn't that make Muslim apologists Truthophobic?

  • "Islamic terrorism is caused mostly by US policy in the Mideast"

    Then how do you explain Islamic murder of random innocent people in Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Argentina, Russia, Nigeria, Kenya, India, China, Thailand, Bali, the Phillipinies, etc? They had nothing to do with US policy in the Mideast.

    It is, however, valid to point out that Islamic terror in each country generally followed Saudi funding of Wahhabi madrassas (Koranic schools) in that country, and that America always supports Saudi Arabia no matter what they do. So it is Americas fault to some degree, for supporting Saudi Arabia. And it is also true that George W Bush's attack on Iraq in bogus "retaliation" for the Saudi attack on America on 9/11 greatly inflamed the existing problem. Bush should be in jail for starting a war under false pretenses.

  • "American wars are also terrorism"

    No, terrorism is the deliberate murder of random unarmed civilians. America does not try to kill civilians. If we did try, they would all be dead.

    The only reason we are not all dead is that the Islamic world is so weak and ineffective.

  • "Islamic terrorism is caused by inequality and poverty"

    Not it's not. Most terrorists are fairly well educated and not poor. In fact, propensity to Islamic terrorism increases with income and education. Osama bin Laden was very rich.

    Islamic terrorism is motivated mainly by a desire to prove devotion to Islam to other Muslims, and to one's family. "See, look how many kuffar I killed! Aren't you proud?" The horrifying part is that most so-called "moderate" Muslims and the families of terrorists are indeed proud of the terrorists for "fighting back" against dirty unbelievers by killing random unarmed civilians, such as teen girls in Manchester.

  • "Muslims used to be more peaceful, so it's something we've done to them."

    No, Muslims were always this way. What's different is that now they can use the Internet, and especially YouTube, to share and amplify their resentment of all non-Muslims and their bomb-making techniques. Google helps terrorists by spreading terrorist ideology via YouTube.

    If you've done anything to offend Muslims, it's simply being part of a successful, generally happy and tolerant non-Muslim society, clearly proving that Islam is not only unnecessary, but obviously a huge impediment to success, happiness, and tolerance.

    "In March 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to London to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy, ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman (or Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). When they enquired "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:

    "It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.[25]

    Jefferson reported the conversation to Secretary of Foreign Affairs John Jay, who submitted the ambassador's comments and offer to Congress. Jefferson argued that paying tribute would encourage more attacks."

    Note the year, 1786. The Constitution was created in 1787, and ratified in 1788. The reason we have a Constitutional republic is largely to enable Congress to raise an army and navy, and the reason America needed that was largely because Islam says what it says.

    See https://patrick.net/1306992/2017-06-05-saudi-arabia-egypt-bahrain-uae-cuts-off-diplomatic-relations-with-qatar#comment-1416821

  • "Christians are terrorists too"

    So rarely as to make the comparison comical. The difference is about 1,000-fold. For every Christian attack on an abortion clinic there are about 1,000 Islamic attacks on random people. See http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

  • "Christianity also teaches evil things"

    No, Jesus himself did not rob, rape, or kill anyone. Mohammed robbed, raped, and killed lots of people. For just one example of many, Mohammed murdered Safiya's father, then tortured her husband to death to get him to tell the location of his money, then raped her the same day, according to Islamic history.
    There is no exhortation to hate in the New Testament, but butt-hurt resentment of non-Muslims is the main theme of the Koran and the hadith. See https://patrick.net/Islam

    It is true that the Old Testament has some similarities to Islam in its very harsh punishments for violating its rules, and some genocidal wars.

  • "Islam is tolerant of other religions"

    No, Islam allows Jews and Christians to remain alive (outside of Saudi Arabia) but only if they pay an annual ransom (jizya) to Muslims under deliberately humiliating conditions, and "feel themselves subdued". Hindus, athiests, and members of other religions are officially not allowed to live at all, and must be killed, according to Islam. No other religion is allowed to exist in Saudi Arabia. No synagogues or churches, no torahs or bibles allowed.

    Anyone who leaves Islam must also be killed, according to Islam. And this is actually the law in many Islamic countries.

  • "But Jesus is part of Islam too"

    Not the same "Jesus" at all. Muslims believe that Jesus was a Muslim first of all, and was never crucified and reject the whole story about his redeeming mankind with his own sacrifice. They also believe he will come back in the final days to kill the Jews. They use the name "Isa" and say he is the same Jesus, but he's obviously a totally different guy with far different ideals. They do not include the gospels at all in their beliefs.

  • "But I have good Muslim friends. They would not murder people."

    Of course, most Muslims are better human beings than Muslims. If they are friends with you at all, they are already violating Islam, for the Koran says (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends. It's good to be friends with them, and to tell them the truth about Islam because they will listen if you are friendly and don't make it about them personally.

  • "Muslims tell me that Islam doesn't teach those awful things"

    Lying to non-Muslims is officially a praiseworthy part of being a Muslim. Muslims are encouraged to lie about anything that makes Islam look bad. You can easily look up the truth for yourself. See http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ for a good introduction to the truth.

  • "Terrorist are not real Muslims"

    Sorry, but they are actually very authentic Muslims doing what their religion commands them to do. Who are you to tell them they are not Muslim? They are giving their lives for Islam by killing unbelievers. At least they are honest about it. If they are not Islamic, then Mohammed was not Islamic either. The head of ISIS has a PhD in Islamic studies. He knows exactly what he's doing and why.

    If someone says "radical Islam", you should ask them which version of the Koran these radicals are reading and acting on. Is it any different from the moderate Muslims' Koran?

  • "Most Muslims are not terrorists"

    True, but most terrorists are indeed Muslim, and most "moderate" Muslims have sympathy for radical Muslims' terrorist attacks. And so we have the saying "Radical Muslims want to kill you. Moderate Muslims want radical Muslims to kill you."

  • "It's racist to talk about the connection between Islam and terrorism."

    No it isn't. Islam has made murderers out of people of all races. It's very egalitarian that way. Chinese Muslims murder random non-Muslims in China, and Nigerian Muslims murder random non-Muslims in Nigeria. The only thing they have in common is the Islamic teaching to hate and murder non-Muslims.

  • "We need to open our doors to refugees"

    No, Muslim countries need to open their doors to Muslim refugees, especially oil-rich Muslim countries. The majority of so-called "refugees" are angry young men looking for easy money and easy women in the West. The legitimate Muslim refugees are nonetheless still infected with a very dangerous virus of the mind, and their children often grow up with hate for the host countries that generously took in their parents, such as the Manchester bomber who blew up all those teen girls.

  • "The principal victims of Islam are other Muslims"

    This is true. But we are talking about protecting ourselves from Islam here.

  • "You're more likely to get attacked by a shark than murdered by a terrorist"

    Nope, there are only about 20 shark attacks per year, and Islamic terrorist attacks kill tens of thousands worldwide and are increasing exponentially.

  • "The constitution forbids excluding Muslims based on religion"

    No, the constitution forbids the government from establishing a state religion. Non-citizens may be excluded from entry for any reason or no reason at all. Islam is more than just a religion. It is a violent subversive political movement which demands that secular government be overthrown and replaced with sharia. We banned communists for decades for much less violence and subversion.

  • "It's pointless and dangerous to offend a billion Muslims"

    No, it's more dangerous to shut up and let your family and civilization die because you were merely too sensitive to speak the truth in time. Muslims are human beings. Deep in their core they know that there is something very wrong with Islam, and they need encouragement from millions of honest people to admit this so that they can free themselves and rejoin the rest of humanity. If you speak with respect and sincerity, they are likely to listen.

    They never hear the truth about Islam in their home countries, so it's up to us. Speak up or die.

  • "There is nothing you can do"

    OK, then Islamic atrocities are now to be expected and tolerated and there is no reason to be alarmed. Please continue moving toward the slaughterhouse in an orderly manner.

Here are some nonviolent ways we can end Islamic terrorism in the West: End all Islamic immigration, instantly revoke citizenship and deport all members of the extended families of anyone who commits terrorism in the West (this idea was proposed by an English Muslim in the wake of the Manchester bombing), allow freedom of speech about Islam, and stop teaching that Islam is a religion of peace, because it is not. And Trump has a good line: Islamic terrorists are losers, so call them that.

If you want to take the long view, stop using foreign oil, and demand that we cut off all diplomatic relations with the ultimate source of almost all terrorism: Saudi Arabia.

Permission is granted to copy this and distribute it. Please do, in fact. Copy it to your own website and look back here for updates now and then.

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89   anonymous   2017 May 26, 6:17am  

But let's waste time by debating the evil of Christianity

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Why are actual, tangible, resolvable problems always a "waste of time" or "impossible ", to the same people expending most of their energy bloviating about a problem absent a solution, a world away?

There's a saying that "those who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones". Why not make America a place worth saving, before embarking on such a complex and likely impossible journey to eradicate Islam? Let's clean house here at home first. Save this country and it's people from all the horrors we suffer from here at home, at the hands of Christians that have infected our government. Then we can go abroad and start solving other people's problems by sending other peoples sons off to war, to fight the war that the keyboard warrior Trumpcucks are demanding after consuming all the MIC propaganda?

90   anonymous   2017 May 26, 6:34am  

Arguing that we should embrace Christianity because it's better than Islam is like arguing we should embrace rape because its better than murder. That's a false choice. Lesser evils enable greater evils. The police call this The Broken Window Theory. It applies to religion and all irrational superstitious nonsense as well.

---------------

It's the Death or Oogoo paradox. Funny, I heard about it here from Patrick himself.

Much like Montgomery Brewster, I vote None of the Above.

91   anonymous   2017 May 26, 6:42am  

Since "Christian" defines as "follower of Christ," and you're not following Christ when you commit atrocities (even if you claim to be doing His work), then I fail to see your point!

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Fail. Go to any prison, and you will meet the most devout Christians, who just so happen to be the worst of the worst, convicted criminals. Coincidence?

This is the fatal flaw in Christianity, and any American who feels the need to participate in religion, would be best served to revert back to the Quaker brand of Christianity. The Friends parse out the nonsense that makes Christianity such a terrible religion, in true American fashion. They take personal responsibility for their actions , absolving themselves from the shortcomings of modern American Christianity. Their relationship with God is an inter-personal experience, and they don't subjugate themselves to the false prophets that rape and molest the children of the Christian rubes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quakers

92   FortWayne   2017 May 26, 7:19am  

errc says

Arguing that we should embrace Christianity because it's better than Islam is like arguing we should embrace rape because its better than murder. That's a false choice. Lesser evils enable greater evils. The police call this The Broken Window Theory. It applies to religion and all irrational superstitious nonsense as well.

Christianity is not "rape". That's a really bad analogy. Christianity is the only thing that keeps our nation together, with forgiveness and second chances. You have to understand that those good "American values" are coming from "Christianity", they are Christian values. You take Christianity out, you get a whole lot of Donald Trumps and alike, because that is what happens when someone worships narcissism and dollars instead of the all loving, all forgiving lord.

93   Shaman   2017 May 26, 8:12am  

Dan8267 says

Let's apply this No True Scottsman argument to Islam.

Islam is a religion of peace. Therefore when you cannot be a Muslim if you commit atrocities even if you clam to be doing Allah's work. So stop blaming Islam for all the Islamic terrorism.

The problem with your argument is your initial premise! It's demonstrably true that Islam is NOT a religion of peace, and anyone with half an eye cracked or greater than 25% hearing ability would know this fact to be absolutely true. How can a religion be peaceful when it's unquestioned core tenets are jihad and murder of outsiders and unbelievers or apostates or people who draw a damned cartoon of Mohammed!? I remain certain that you are capable of reason, even though this argument is sheer Marcus territory.

94   Shaman   2017 May 26, 8:18am  

errc says

Since "Christian" defines as "follower of Christ," and you're not following Christ when you commit atrocities (even if you claim to be doing His work), then I fail to see your point!

-------------

Fail. Go to any prison, and you will meet the most devout Christians, who just so happen to be the worst of the worst, convicted criminals. Coincidence?

There is indeed a failure here, and it's a failure to understand. I'll blame myself this time for not explaining well enough.
If you are a follower of Christ, you follow His teachings and example. When you are NOT following that example, you are not a following Christ! The prisoners in your example who have committed heinous acts and subsequently turned to follow Christ ARE followers of Christ because it's not your history that defines this, it's your dedication to His story! Your will and your choices determine if you are a follower, not your birth, ancestry, family associations, or even whether you attend a church.

95   NDrLoR   2017 May 26, 8:24am  

errc says

Go to any prison, and you will meet the most devout Christians

Prison is one of the most fertile grounds for conversion to Islam:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_to_Islam_in_U.S._prisons

96   Strategist   2017 May 26, 8:40am  

P N Dr Lo R says

Prison is one of the most fertile grounds for conversion to Islam:

It's the only way for criminals to continue with their crimes, and still get to heaven. What a deal.

97   anonymous   2017 May 26, 8:50am  

P N Dr Lo R says

errc says

Go to any prison, and you will meet the most devout Christians

Prison is one of the most fertile grounds for conversion to Islam:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_to_Islam_in_U.S._prisons

Yup. One more way that Islam is just like Christianity

98   FortWayne   2017 May 26, 8:56am  

You guys are spreading misinformation without facts.

Alternative facts kind of people...

errc says

P N Dr Lo R says

errc says

Go to any prison, and you will meet the most devout Christians

Prison is one of the most fertile grounds for conversion to Islam:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_to_Islam_in_U.S._prisons

Yup. One more way that Islam is just like Christianity

99   anonymous   2017 May 26, 10:40am  

Point out any misinformation I posted about Christianity and I'll donate a $100 to Patrick.net

100   Dan8267   2017 May 26, 10:48am  

FortWayne says

You are picking and choosing alternative facts Dan.

You are outright lying. I've quoted the founding father's exact words describing how America has nothing to do with Christianity and is not based on it. The very words of the persons you're trying to make your case contradict your case.

There have been many societies founded on Christianity; they all sucked. Just look at the Dark Ages.

America and the rest of the western world only became successful when the power of Christianity was greatly reduced. As time went on and Christianity waned, the western world became better. There is a direct and obvious correlation between rejection of Christianity and all other religions, and the quality of life in a society. This correlation continues today. The causality is clearly proven because rejection of religion allows us to advance science and technology, and those two things are responsible for everything good in our society.

101   Dan8267   2017 May 26, 10:49am  

MMR says

What if you already are, for most intents and purposes?

Promote rationality, including atheism, and point out the stupidity and dangers of religions. Don't be silent against these injustices. Silence allows problems to fester.

102   Shaman   2017 May 26, 10:50am  

errc says

Point out any misinformation I posted about Christianity and I'll donate a $100 to Patrick.net

I already have. Patrick is waiting for his check!

103   Dan8267   2017 May 26, 10:50am  

MMR says

Correct....exponentially lesser

Irrelevant. It's still the same fundamental problem. Religion is a cancer. It spreads and mutates. Remember, Islam was created from Judaism and Christianity. If those two religions did not exist, Islam never would have existed.

104   Dan8267   2017 May 26, 10:53am  

Quigley says

It's demonstrably true that Islam is NOT a religion of peace,

It's demonstrably true that Christianity is NOT a religion of peace. Just look at the 2000 year history of the religion. For most of the time, it's been every bit as violent as Islam. Counting up centuries of violence, Christianity is actually worse than Islam. Hell, if we gave Islam another 700 years, I'm sure it would become like Christianity is today. Might as well give both religions the same amount of time to mature, right?

Again, what's the upside to tolerating either religion?

105   anonymous   2017 May 26, 10:53am  

Quigley says

errc says

Point out any misinformation I posted about Christianity and I'll donate a $100 to Patrick.net

I already have. Patrick is waiting for his check!

Show me. Sorry I cannot just take your wrod for it

106   Dan8267   2017 May 26, 10:54am  

errc says

P N Dr Lo R says

errc says

Go to any prison, and you will meet the most devout Christians

Prison is one of the most fertile grounds for conversion to Islam:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_to_Islam_in_U.S._prisons

Yup. One more way that Islam is just like Christianity

Was about to say the same thing.

Religion is terrible regardless of the specific stories in the specific holy book. The acceptance of a lie and the rejection of reality is always a bad thing.

No one has ever given a plausible reason why having the vast majority of the world population believe in a lie, especially a historically dangerous one, forever and ever is a good idea.

107   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 May 26, 11:16am  

Develop some one-liners.

"My children's safety is more important than your community's feelings."
"Children Died, Tolerance Lied."

108   Strategist   2017 May 26, 11:22am  

Dan8267 says

No one has ever given a plausible reason why having the vast majority of the world population believe in a lie, especially a historically dangerous one, forever and ever is a good idea.

Man is susceptible to brainwashing. They don't believe it's a lie, even though it's proven again and again to be a lie.
Only education and time will make people see the truth. In the meantime we are stuck with the nonsense of religion, especially Islam.

109   curious2   2017 May 26, 1:25pm  

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Develop some one-liners.

"My children's safety is more important than your community's feelings."

"Children Died, Tolerance Lied."

Only losers would want to be slaves to Allah.
Islam is for losers.
Islam is a hateful fraud, perpetrated by a dead charlatan.
I'd rather have free speech.
No Islam for me, I like cartoons.

110   Shaman   2017 May 26, 1:35pm  

Islam is where freedom goes to die!

111   anonymous   2017 May 26, 1:51pm  

N m N's

Not my Neighbor!

For all the suburbanites that pay for the privilege to make it someone else's problem

"No matter who you are, or where you're from, we're glad that you're our neighbor "

(Read the last neighbor with an emphasis on Nay, like a horse) Naaaaaaybur!!

Wiillllbbuurrrr!!

112   anonymous   2017 May 26, 1:53pm  

errc says

Quigley says

errc says

Point out any misinformation I posted about Christianity and I'll donate a $100 to Patrick.net

I already have. Patrick is waiting for his check!

Show me. Sorry I cannot just take your wrod for it

Dang Patrick, all your Christian brothers abandoned the cause, real fucking quick!

113   Dan8267   2017 May 26, 7:17pm  

Strategist says

Only education and time will make people see the truth.

This is exactly why all religion, all superstition, and all irrationality has to be opposed. If children are not exposed to this brainwashing there is practically a zero chance that they will become brainwashed as adults. Every Christian or Jew converted into an atheist, or even an agnostic, makes the environment more rational and all people a little less susceptible to the brainwashing.

114   Strategist   2017 May 26, 7:22pm  

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Only education and time will make people see the truth.

This is exactly why all religion, all superstition, and all irrationality has to be opposed. If children are not exposed to this brainwashing there is practically a zero chance that they will become brainwashed as adults. Every Christian or Jew converted into an atheist, or even an agnostic, makes the environment more rational and all people a little less susceptible to the brainwashing.

Once again........Can we start with that with the fucking religion of Islam first? Did you see the documentary Tovarichpeter posted?
Muslims themselves are the biggest victims of their own pathetic religion. We do a service to mankind by destroying that evil religion first.

115   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 May 26, 7:26pm  

Stop taking in random people as Refugees, and do not allow radical religious fanatics who endorse violence to be admitted, even if they are "Oppressed" by a Secular Dictator.

Refugees should only be allowed in if they themselves are Oppressed for Freedom of Speech or Democracy or Human Rights advocacy, like Journalists in Turkey or Lawyers from Saudi Arabia.

Also, single males 16-50 should never be allowed in from a War Torn Country, unless again they are a known dissident in favor of general Liberalism.

Smith tells the U.K.'s Channel 4 News, "What I don't understand is why are all the men young? Why do they leave their wives and families at home? Two million fellas could beat any f*king army. What if my dad had f*king gone to Ireland... (and) my grandad - what if they'd gone to a neutral country like Ireland in 1940? What would happen then? Nobody seems to ask that question."


http://www.contactmusic.com/mark-e-smith/news/mark-e-smith-syrians-can-win-war-if-they-stand-and-fight_5137181

116   Dan8267   2017 May 26, 8:49pm  

Strategist says

Can we start with that with the fucking religion of Islam first?

It depends on what you mean. You could start fighting Islam right now and Christianity a minute later, but not a century later.

The fact is, the only way to fight Islam is to fight all religions simultaneously by fighting the very notion of religion and faith. It's not a do X before Y thing. It's a do X and Y together because that's the only way it works thing.

You seem to have this nonsensical idea that you have to completely end Islam before you can even start to tackle Christianity. Wrong. You end them both with the exact same tactics. You argue against the very existence of god, the usefulness of religion, the stupidity of faith, and the incapability of faith and science.

There is nothing mutually exclusive about fighting both religions. In fact, success depends entirely on fighting the very notion of religion.

117   Strategist   2017 May 26, 9:04pm  

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Can we start with that with the fucking religion of Islam first?

It depends on what you mean. You could start fighting Islam right now and Christianity a minute later, but not a century later.

The fact is, the only way to fight Islam is to fight all religions simultaneously by fighting the very notion of religion and faith. It's not a do X before Y thing. It's a do X and Y together because that's the only way it works thing.

You seem to have this nonsensical idea that you have to completely end Islam before you can even start to tackle Christianity. Wrong. You end them both with the exact same tactics. You argue against the very existence of god, the usefulness of religion, the stupidity of faith, and the incapability of faith and science.

There is nothing mutually exclusive about fighting both religions. In fact, success depends entirely on...

That is absolutely incorrect. You go after the worst with the help of the second worst. Arguing against the existence of God in Islam is not very practical as they have no freedoms of speech.

118   Dan8267   2017 May 26, 9:10pm  

Strategist says

You go after the worst with the help of the second worst.

And how has that worked out in the Middle East?

There comes a point where you have to admit that your current strategy isn't working.

119   Strategist   2017 May 26, 9:14pm  

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

You go after the worst with the help of the second worst.

And how has that worked out in the Middle East?

There comes a point where you have to admit that your current strategy isn't working.

A step at a time my friend. In the case of Islam Trump is going after the Shites, with the help of the Saudi Sunnis.
One by one we will finish them off.

120   Dan8267   2017 May 26, 9:16pm  

Strategist says

One by one we will finish them off.

Not without address the root cause of the problem: faith.

121   Strategist   2017 May 26, 9:22pm  

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

One by one we will finish them off.

Not without address the root cause of the problem: faith.

Dan, we can't get rid of faith in our lifetime. We can make it easier for our future generations to get rid of faith, by taking steps towards the goal of eliminating the nonsense of faith.

122   Dan8267   2017 May 26, 9:40pm  

Strategist says

Dan, we can't get rid of faith in our lifetime

Why does everything have to be a litmus test with you? You really need to accept the concept of gradients. Christian faith in the west is a tiny fraction of what it was in the Dark Ages. Every bit of erosion, including that over the past 50 years, betters America, Europe, and the world.

Victory comes in little pieces, not all at once. Steady progress in eliminating faith is the only way to win this war. And it is a war that must be fought on all fronts simultaneously. You cannot win if you let the barbarians burst through your back door. And there is no downside to fighting all fronts simultaneously. It's actually easier than fighting just one front. Project rational values everywhere. A lantern that shines in all directions provides more light than one that is cut off in all but one direction.

123   Patrick   2017 May 26, 9:47pm  

I think the separation of church and state has been a very good solution for the west.

Christians can believe and have their churches, but they cannot impose their religion on others. Science and technology can flourish without (much) religious interference, and so the economy does well. Everyone is basically OK with the arrangement, aside from the militant atheists like Dan, and militant Christians. But neither of those are even attempting to impose their views by force on everyone.

Islam is very different, in that it specifically demands an Islamic government and Islamic law for all citizens as part of the religion itself. And this kills their science, and their economies.

124   Dan8267   2017 May 26, 10:19pm  

rando says

Islam is very different

In degree, not in principle. How many laws violate our freedom of religion by imposing Christian doctrine onto us? Every blue law. Every anti-decency law. Every law prohibiting alcohol, prostitution, and profane speech.

Now think of how Christianity has create bad policies like ignoring climate change and pollution, outlawing homosexual acts and marriage, prohibiting sex education and condom programs. Just looking at the spread of AIDS, Christianity has killed millions of people over the past 30 years. That's way more than Islam. Indirect consequences still count.

And again, what is the up side to promoting a delusion and giving the deluded privileges like not paying taxes on their land and income?

rando says

aside from the militant atheists like Dan

How exactly am I militant?

www.youtube.com/embed/VxGMqKCcN6A?start=27

125   Patrick   2017 May 27, 8:54am  

Dan8267 says

Just looking at the spread of AIDS, Christianity has killed millions of people over the past 30 years. That's way more than Islam. Indirect consequences still count.

Now you're really stretching.

AIDS is spread mostly by butt-fucking men and injecting drugs using needles shared with people who were infected by butt-fucking. Hard to blame Christians for those things people chose to do. And the people who do them know all about condoms. Heterosexual sex is a relatively rare mode of transmission, at least in the US.

126   FortWayne   2017 May 27, 10:49am  

Dan8267 says

How exactly am I militant?

That picture misrepresents the situation. How about you put Stalin up there for "Atheist", after all they were very much set on banning all religion. And that boy murdered millions, practiced ethnic cleansing, and murdered on a whim. No morals, because atheism has no morals.

So that's what you believe in, and that's what you'll act like... just another Stalin/Mao/Hitler.

127   BayArea   2017 May 27, 11:14am  

Dan8267 says

Just looking at the spread of AIDS, Christianity has killed millions of people over the past 30 years. That's way more than Islam. Indirect consequences still count

Dan, you usually make good arguments. This isn't one of them.

128   Dan8267   2017 May 27, 12:43pm  

FortWayne says

That picture misrepresents the situation.

Christianity has been around for 2000 years. For 80% of that time it was as horrific as Islam. For 10% of that time, it was greatly weakened until it was at least under control. For the past 10% of that time, Christianity has been completely castrated, and that's why it is far less harmful than it was for the vast majority of its existence. That picture is painted by hard historical fact.

Stating the facts of history is not being militant. Is a person militant for writing that the Nazis committed genocide in the 1930s and 1940s? Telling the truth is not militant.

FortWayne says

How about you put Stalin up there for "Atheist", after all they were very much set on banning all religion.

Conservative Logic: A person who is a member of group X does something bad, therefore all members of group X and their ideology are bad.

Let's apply this to Christians.

Joseph A. Abruzzese, a Christian priest, was convicted of pedophilia. Clearly all Christians are pedophiles and their teachings are evil.

This is called poisoning the well. You should know that since every single argument of yours is either this fallacy or an ad hominem or a baseless assertion.

I have addressed in great detail why atheism has absolutely nothing to do with Stalin's regime or communism in the classic thread Tom Selleck and Charlie Chaplin are the most dangerous despots ever. Please keep making that debunked argument so I can keep referring to this thread.

FortWayne says

No morals, because atheism has no morals.

Bullshit. I'm an atheist and I have far better and more defensible morals than you. When I do good and choose not to do evil, it's because I believe in good, not because I'm afraid that some supernatural entity is going to hurt me. Nothing you do is a moral act. It is only an act out of fear. You cannot be a moral person is you constantly have the sword of Damocles over your head threatening you if you don't act a certain way. You have no moral backbone.

It is also a testament to how vile Christianity is that despite having that sword over your head, you still attack homosexuals, atheists, and foreigners with impunity. How vile must your god be that he doesn't disapprove of that behavior.

FortWayne says

So that's what you believe in, and that's what you'll act like... just another Stalin/Mao/Hitler.

Wow, I've never seen a more succinct example of Godwin's Law.

I'm just wondering in which PatNet post exactly did I propose genocide as the ultimate solution. Seems like Christians are the ones always calling for the entire Middle East to be blown to bits and cheering whenever the U.S. drops a bomb even on civilian targets.

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