patrick.net

SJW and the left are not conservatives. They want change. They are progressives. It may not be change for the better. But unlike conservatives, they do not want status quo.

Conservatives demand change all the time when the status quo doesn't conserve their culture. Conservatives demanded changes like
- outlawing alcohol
- outlawing various drugs including weed
- banning transgenders from serving in the military
- banning flag burning
- deregulating industry
- ending anti-trust enforcement

Conservatism is about conserving a tribe's arbitrary culture.

Dan8267 says

Again, you're thinking of conservatives. They are the ones that tell you that you can't

- be nude in public

- say hateful things

- swear on television and radio

- burn a flag

- fly the KKK Confederate battle flag

- marry someone of the same sex or of a different race

- blasphemy

- buy alcohol on Sundays

- watch porn

- engage in witchcraft

- like an ISIS video on Facebook

- smoke pot

- tell a cop to fuck off

- tell a judge to fuck off

- have a truly private conversation with someone

Yep, that's all conservatives. They suck.

Conservatives suck is a tautology, however every society has norms. Enforcing them is not a negative thing.
Here we some illiberal leftists trying to force their ideal (not a norm). It doesn't matter if they want to do good. They shouldn't force it on other people.

As a comparison, communists also initially started with some very generous ideas: making people more equal. They tried to impose it. When that didn't work they started killing anyone suspected of opposing them. In several countries, this led to a massacre of millions. All this because of trying to force an ideal on the world. The world doesn't respect ideals. There is no equality in life. This is just a fact. You have to appreciate the world the way it is.

Dan8267 says

Mislabeling something just to poison the well is not valid.

Tell that to Jesus when you meet Him.

What if the elevators on it's way down when he steps on?

PeopleUnited says

Dan8267 says

Mislabeling something just to poison the well is not valid.

Tell that to Jesus when you meet Him.

Buddhists think heaven and hell are here and now, and you can simply choose to live in one or the other:

A soldier comes to visit a famous zen master Hakuin. And the soldier asks, “Is there really a heaven and a hell?” The zen master replies, “Who are you?” The soldier says, “I am a samurai.” Hakuin replies, “You? A samurai? What kind of lord would have you as his guard? You look like a beggar.” The soldier starts to get angry and becomes so enraged that he’s about to draw his sword. The zen master continues and he says, “Oh, so you have a sword. It’s probably even too dull to cut off my head.” At this point, the soldier is indignant and he brandishes his sword. The zen master says, “Now you are in hell.” And the soldier immediately recognizes the wisdom in those words and he puts his sword away. The zen master says, “Now you are in heaven.”

PeopleUnited says

Tell that to Jesus when you meet Him.

Your Jesus is dead, if he ever existed. He's not immortal. Neither are you. Deal with it.

rando says

The zen master says, “Now you are in hell.” And the soldier immediately recognizes the wisdom in those words and he puts his sword away. The zen master says, “Now you are in heaven.”

The zen master is an idiot. His survival depended on the irrational soldier suddenly becoming rational. In real life, any soldier that would have drawn his sword would have proceeded to kill the zen master.

Also the zen master is wrong. It would not be the soldier in hell. It would be his victim. People who do evil deeds most often enjoy life. To deny this is to underestimate evil and to invite defeat at its hands.

Stories that sound like nice parables are often wrought with bad advice and logic. In contrast, math may be boring to the vast majority of dumb humans, but it is far more beautiful, useful, and insightful than parables.

Don't take it all that literally. The point is that anger is its own punishment.

It's not logical enough for Dan.

rando says

Don't take it all that literally. The point is that anger is its own punishment.

Yes, and that point is wrong. Anger itself does not necessarily result in a decrease in the quality of life, prosperity, or access to mates of the angry and violent. In fact, quite often the exact opposite happens. Understanding this is critical to disincentivizing people from acting in anger.

Pretending that there are no advantages and are always disadvantages to evil is a sure way to be defeated by evil. Understanding evil's strengths is key to undermining those strengths. Some evils are self-destructive. Others are very stable and prosperous to those who gain power. Knowing this is essential to stopping the later.

Dan8267 says

rando says

The zen master says, “Now you are in hell.” And the soldier immediately recognizes the wisdom in those words and he puts his sword away. The zen master says, “Now you are in heaven.”

The zen master is an idiot. His survival depended on the irrational soldier suddenly becoming rational. In real life, any soldier that would have drawn his sword would have proceeded to kill the zen master.

Also the zen master is wrong. It would not be the soldier in hell. It would be his victim. People who do evil deeds most often enjoy life. To deny this is to underestimate evil and to invite defeat at its hands.

Stories that sound like nice parables are often wrought with bad advice and logic. In contrast, math may be boring to the vast majority of dumb humans, but it is far more beautiful, useful, and insightful than parables.

And you wonder why people mistrust atheists even more than child molesters...

Heraclitusstudent says

It's not logical enough for Dan.

It's not correct enough for me. History disproves this hypothesis repeatedly. History is full of stable systems based on violence and oppression, often enforced with anger. Propaganda uses anger extensively to accomplish its goal. How do you think Trump was elected? Don't underestimate how successful anger-based manipulation and anger-based actions can be, whether those actions are for good or evil.

It is far more important to acknowledge the uncomfortable aspects of reality than the comfortable ones.

Dan8267 says

Stories that sound like nice parables are often wrought with bad advice and logic. In contrast, math may be boring to the vast majority of dumb humans, but it is far more beautiful, useful, and insightful than parables.

Math is the study of what is or is not possible. Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it is beautiful or desirable. Nuking the planet is possible with a thermonuclear war, but it's not a desirable option. Eliminating a population of Jews might be a possible Final Solution, but it's also a monstrous one. Killing or enslaving millions who dissent with your politics is one way to keep power if your name is Stalin or Pol Pot or Idi Amin, but it's a pretty shitty way to treat your fellow human beings.

Those who worship possibility and disdain morality are just psychopaths masquerading as idealists. The world has had enough experience with your kind to know better than cede power to such.

Quigley says

And you wonder why people mistrust atheists even more than child molesters...

I don't. It's pure bigotry.

Atheists statistically are far more trustworthy than Christians. In every state, per capita Christians are far more likely to commit violent crimes and make up a far greater percentage of the prison population relative to their share of the general population.

People who are atheists are so because they are both intelligent and honest, and this combination forces them to be atheists. To be a Christian, you either have to be dumb or dishonest or both. Either you have to get basic reasoning wrong, or you have to choose to ignore reality and engage in a lie. This is not an opinion. It is a fact.

In any case, there is no correlation between who people trust and who is trustworthy. Finally, as every news story on child rape shows, Christians are orders of magnitude more likely to be child molesters and rapists than atheists are. You constantly hear stories about Christian organizations and churches being full of child rapists whose crimes are covered by other Christians. You never hear a story of an atheist child molester. So once again, atheists are far more trustworthy than Christians.

Facts are a bitch, aren't they?

Also, you are completely dishonest to attempt to twist what I said into an avocation of evil when it is clearly the exact opposite. Like a hypocrite, you are doing EXACTLY what Google and the mainstream media did to the Google employee who wrote the memo referenced in the original post.

Quigley says

Math is the study of what is or is not possible. Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it is beautiful or desirable.

No one said "just because something is possible, it is beautiful or desirable". That's a straw man.

What I said is that there is beauty in the mathematical modeling and explanations of morality. If you cannot see that, this is your loss.

Quigley says

Those who worship possibility and disdain morality are just psychopaths masquerading as idealists. The world has had enough experience with your kind to know better than cede power to such.

Last time I checked, I never advocated genocide and I've written quite a bit on effective ways to prevent it. So if we are flinging around baseless accusations, have you let that 8-year-old girl you kidnapped go yet?

Dan8267 says

Facts are a bitch, aren't they?

Yep.

Atheists thought immoral, even by fellow atheists: study
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/atheists-thought-immoral-even-fellow-atheists-study-150953056.html

What is it about Atheist's sales job that they can't even convince their own flock?

Dan8267 says

Last time I checked, I never advocated genocide and I've written quite a bit on effective ways to prevent it.

If I could be bothered to look through this site, I do believe reading several of your comments claiming Conservatives and Religious people should be driven from society and never be allowed to hold political power.

My history is fuzzy, but wasn't there some fine gentlemen in Europe and Asia in the 20th century that held similar views about certain ideological and religious groups that ended in massive genocide?

socal2 says

several of your comments claiming Conservatives and Religious people should be driven from society and never be allowed to hold political power.

Try several hundred posts like this. Dan has proven me right so many times that I'm getting tired of all this winning!

Dan reminds me of this little Maoist shit threatening to throw a Russian immigrant into a labor camp for debating the efficacy of Socialism.

So cocksure of his righteousness and ideological views.

Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot didn't murder hundreds of millions all by themselves. They had millions of true-believing "enlightened" Dan's of the world more than willing to do their part to make "heaven on earth".

www.youtube.com/embed/lEvWDwZYvk8

Liberals are now h8ting on SCIENCE!

Deleted - I see this story was linked in a separate post.

Of course they do. If there are hardwired bits of human behavior, then you can't blame society for them.

socal2 says

Atheists thought immoral, even by fellow atheists: study

1. Perception is not reality. Even if the study is true, all it indicates is prejudice, not trustworthiness.
2. The study's author states that the distrust is due to religion brainwashing people into prejudice.
3. No link to the study. Is it even peer reviewed?

The bottom line is that by every accepted metric, atheists are more moral than Christians. Again, the empirical proof is in the prison population. Christians are orders of magnitude more likely to commit violent crimes like rape, murder, assault, and robbery. None of your cherry picking is going to change that fact.

socal2 says

I do believe reading several of your comments claiming Conservatives and Religious people should be driven from society and never be allowed to hold political power.

I never made such a statement about conservatives or religious persons. More specifically, I never claimed anyone should be driven from society. Nor have I ever claimed that conservatives, left or right, should never be allowed to hold political power, however, limiting their power is certainly in the interests of society.

I have claimed that rights trump laws, and that those who create laws that violate rights should be immediately removed from power permanently. For example, if a politician sponsors a bill to round up all the Jews and burn them in ovens, he should not be allowed to hold office.

I have also claimed that religion is a mental illness and should be treated as such. If a person is so divorced from reality that he thinks a benevolent sky daddy is going to ensure America wins any war it fights, i.e. god is on our side, then that person does not have enough of a grasp on reality to vote or hold office. There are reasons we don't allow the insane to vote. Belief in an all powerful sky daddy is a delusion, and delusions are, by definition, mental disorders. A delusion as wide sweeping as the belief in a god is a severe enough mental disorder as to render a person incapable of casting a sane vote.

socal2 says

Liberals are now h8ting on SCIENCE!

More lies from the pathological liar.

Dan8267 says

I never made such a statement about conservatives or religious persons. More specifically, I never claimed anyone should be driven from society. Nor have I ever claimed that conservatives, left or right, should never be allowed to hold political power, however, limiting their power is certainly in the interests of society.

Dan8267 says

I have also claimed that religion is a mental illness and should be treated as such. If a person is so divorced from reality that he thinks a benevolent sky daddy is going to ensure America wins any war it fights, i.e. god is on our side, then that person does not have enough of a grasp on reality to vote or hold office.

Dan8267 says

2. The study's author states that the distrust is due to religion brainwashing people into prejudice.

Yet even fellow atheists thought atheists were more immoral according to this study.

Dan8267 says

Those aren't contradictory positions, idiot.

Do you even bother to read the shit you write?

Recommend you take a deep breath and spend more time getting your thoughts together before vomiting out another one of your screeds.

socal2 says

Dan8267 says

2. The study's author states that the distrust is due to religion brainwashing people into prejudice.

Yet even fellow atheists thought atheists were more immoral according to this study.

Yes. Even the atheists were brainwashed as children, and despite shrugging off most of the ills of religion, it is impossible to completely undo brainwashing.

This is why the indoctrination of children into religion is the worst form of child abuse in the world.

Saw female google employees are banding together to sue google for discrimination. I love it when the system cannibalizes itself!

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

Tell that to Jesus when you meet Him.

Your Jesus is dead, if he ever existed. He's not immortal. Neither are you. Deal with it.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it true. You and I have an eternal soul. I hope you don't wait till you leave this world to finally understand it.

rando says

Buddhists think heaven and hell are here and now, and you can simply choose to live in one or the other:

A soldier comes to visit a famous zen master Hakuin. And the soldier asks, “Is there really a heaven and a hell?” The zen master replies, “Who are you?” The soldier says, “I am a samurai.” Hakuin replies, “You? A samurai? What kind of lord would have you as his guard? You look like a beggar.” The soldier starts to get angry and becomes so enraged that he’s about to draw his sword. The zen master continues and he says, “Oh, so you have a sword. It’s probably even too dull to cut off my head.” At this point, the soldier is indignant and he brandishes his sword. The zen master says, “Now you are in hell.” And the soldier immediately recognizes the wisdom in those words and he puts his sword away. The zen master says, “Now you are in heaven.”

Dan8267 says

rando says

The zen master says, “Now you are in hell.” And the soldier immediately recognizes the wisdom in those words and he puts his sword away. The zen master says, “Now you are in heaven.”

The zen master is an idiot. His survival depended on the irrational soldier suddenly becoming rational. In real life, any soldier that would have drawn his sword would have proceeded to kill the zen master.

Also the zen master is wrong. It would not be the soldier in hell. It would be his victim. People who do evil deeds most often enjoy life. To deny this is to underestimate evil and to invite defeat at its hands.

Stories that sound like nice parables are often wrought with bad advice and logic. In contrast, math may be boring to the vast majority of dumb humans, but it is far more beautiful, useful, and insightful than parables.

Dan completely misunderstands the story. It is not a story about being angry. It is not even a story about heaven and hell. It is a story about the difference between being controlled by your emotions vs. being in control of your emotions. People who are controlled by their emotions are living a life of self torture and impotence. It is this kind of existence that causes people to ban others from their threads. They can't handle the emotional pain that having people disagree with them causes. Proverbs 16:32 "Whoever is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit than he who takes a city."

PeopleUnited says

You and I have an eternal soul.

Only fools believe in souls. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that arbitrary Bronze Age myth, and plenty of reasons to not from the complete lack of any evidence that souls exist to the failure of anyone who dies passing on a clear message to the living.

Your stupid heaven myth also makes no sense. A mother dies and goes to heaven. Meanwhile on Earth her daughter is brutally raped. How the fuck could the mother be in perfect bliss? Hitler goes to hell, but Hitler's mom goes to heaven. How can any mother be happy when her child is being tortured for all eternity? Oh, Hitler's mom is also in hell? Then her mother can't be happy in heaven. OK with that? Keep regressing until you get to a common ancestor of you and Hitler. That ancestor and all others can't be perfectly happy either.

The Bible is full of nothing but lies that make no sense and contradict themselves.

PeopleUnited says

It is a story about the difference between being controlled by your emotions vs. being in control of your emotions.

It fails even at that. It is not hell to be not in control of your emotions. For example, two people having passionate sex. That's heaven, not hell.

Second, it is not heaven to be in control of your emotions. Example: a man at his mother's funeral holding it inside.

Finally, even a person in complete control of his emotions can be harmed by another person in complete control of his emotions. This happens all the time. Some evils are rationally motivated and executed.

PeopleUnited says

You and I have an eternal soul.

Question: if you see one day an AI talking to you and making sense like an other human being and appearing to be conscious, will you then admit we have no soul, but that it's all mechanics.

PeopleUnited says

Tell that to Jesus when you meet Him.

What if you meet Mohamed in the afterlife and he sends you to hell for being Christian?
Or Zeus?

You have to admit that there is no proof one way or an other and so it's all the same: mythology.