patrick.net

NuttBoxer says

Since the government earns no money on it's own, it's all borrowed from the Federal Reserve, and the interest owed on that borrowing is paid back through taxes, which are levied on US Citizens, how the fuck does it cost us nothing!?

Maybe because if your system is ever increasing debt, nothing ever gets paid back? You don't live 200 years and the national debt has been increasing steadily since the 1960s so 60 years might as well be forever. I can accurately say for anyone currently alive, it has cost you nothing.

NuttBoxer says

Since the government earns no money on it's own, it's all borrowed from the Federal Reserve, and the interest owed on that borrowing is paid back through taxes, which are levied on US Citizens, how the fuck does it cost us nothing!?

Actually the Fed returns almost all earnings to the US Government.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/11/business/economy/fed-returns-77-billion-in-profits-to-treasury.html
But I agree that Wall St. and the big banks screwed over the US public enormously before the crash. Whether or not it could be proven in a court of law, the behavior was absolutely fraudulent and should have been punished. Unfortunately, we didn't learn our lesson and are going down the same road again, a decade later.

anon_c1f03 says

It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

The uneducated most certainly do not understand money and banking. If they did, they wouldn't be on welfare.

I say shave 75% off the top off every Real Estate parcel in America. Then raise the Fed interest rates to 6%, revisit the HW Bush(Now that we know what evil crooks they were and were the God Father to what we have now) S&L Loans regulation that killed personal saving accounts being paid.

I would rather see my bank account grow 20% YOY than my house. Less you expect your grand children to live in caves and fend for themselves.

.anon_c1f03 says

It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system

Exhibit A:

Tenpoundbass says

I say shave 75% off the top off every Real Estate parcel in America. Then raise the Fed interest rates to 6%, revisit the HW Bush(Now that we know what evil crooks they were and were the God Father to what we have now) S&L Loans regulation that killed personal saving accounts being paid.

I would rather see my bank account grow 20% YOY than my house. Less you expect your grand children to live in caves and fend for themselves

joeyjojojunior says

Exhibit A:

Says the guy who doesn't know the difference between an "Asset" and a "Liability".

Sniper says

Says the guy who doesn't know the difference between an "Asset" and a "Liability".

hahahaha. No that would be you, piggy. You're the one who went down this stupid path because you can never admit you are wrong.

Gentle Reader,

No, I think the US Financiers, Housing Developers, and Investors learned a great deal. They learned that they wouldn't go to jail. This is a very important lesson.

Regards,
Roidy

joeyjojojunior says

No, actually that is none of the numbers I want. I'm looking for you to show where the $10T cost of the bailout is coming from. That link does not answer that.

Joey - I can't help but ridicule you over this. The bailout and the all the wreckage caused by the financial sector (see low interest rates to rob savers to help bankers and balance sheets) is all part of the "fix" that IS NOT BEING PAID BACK. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

This is why we bring up the 10T in added government debt. IT WAS CAUSED BY THE DOWNTURN CAUSED BY THE IRRESPONSIBILITY OF THE FINANCIAL SECTOR AND OUR CRONY GOVERNMENT.

WineHorror says

Joey - I can't help but ridicule you over this. The bailout and the all the wreckage caused by the financial sector (see low interest rates to rob savers to help bankers and balance sheets) is all part of the "fix" that IS NOT BEING PAID BACK. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

You can discuss, but you're not ridiculing. You wrongly attribute low interest rates to the bailout. With or without a bailout, interest rates would have gone to almost zero. The bailout had almost zero to do with it.

I understand perfectly and that's why I'm trying to educate folks about the true cost/benefit of the bailout specifically. You can't lump the bailout in with the crash/wreckage and then say that's why the bailout was bad.

anon_7c0c9 says

Maybe because if your system is ever increasing debt, nothing ever gets paid back? You don't live 200 years and the national debt has been increasing steadily since the 1960s so 60 years might as well be forever. I can accurately say for anyone currently alive, it has cost you nothing.

You didn't have that context in your original reply, so your statement at face value, was not true.

Since I have kids, and I love my kids, this is not acceptable logic for me. I plan on, to the extent that I am capable, making this world a better place when I left it then when I came into it. That means rejecting ridiculous debt that will cripple future generations for the sake of bailing out institutions, instead of holding the individuals in charge of those companies responsible, and prosecuting them under the law.

There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.

anon_acf85 says

There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.

There is only one way to free a nation. Through a Secular Capitalistic Democracy.
Did you know Apple Inc, a product of America, is worth more than the entire stock market of Russia?
Did you know Venezuela has an average income of $28.00 per month, while we make that in an hour?
I bet you didn't.

Whether the US is Communist, Socialist, Democratic, or Capitalist today does not change the fact that the USA is a
bankrupt warmongering police state.

anon_acf85 says

Whether the US is Communist, Socialist, Democratic, or Capitalist today does not change the fact that the USA is a
bankrupt warmongering police state.

If we were a bankrupt warmongering police state, like you confidently state, we would not:
Be the richest nation in the world.
Apple, just a single company being worth more than Russia (supposedly a superpower)
Hundreds of millions of people dying to get into the USA.
And you and your comrades would not want to stay in the USA.

If you could print all the money you wanted, and steal all the money you wanted, couldn’t you manage to stay out of debt?

Hitler is to Permabears/Minarchists (but I practically repeat myself) what Jesus or Aliens are to Cults.

Always right around the corner.

Only buying more gold and bitcoins can stop the coming of the 4th Reich!

I remember hearing Reagan, Bush the Elder, and Bush the Younger all called Hitler by the left in their day, too. Funny, the moment Obama replaced "W", all the whinging about the Patriot Act came to a halt. Obama spied on and arrested many reporters, hardly gave interviews, ran the most secretive administration since god-knows-when, but the media was still worshipful.

That being said, Obama wasn't Stalin, he was too much of a pussy and too inept. He was more like a stupidly idealistic 1960s third world Leader. Like them he had national and international sycophants among the Elite Classes. Oh, Kukume Mayfuso, you are the great leader of people power! Oh you're going to lead Kakaswaziziland into a bright future with your Mega-Dam!

I think oil is like that other bot that Patrick banned. That "Desotonews" link goes to the same article that robot that was driving @WookieMan nuts.

Anyway, nothing says opposition to TYRANNY! than rejecting seat belt laws, and especially speed limits, those rapacious tools of cruel absolutism.

Maybe the issue isn't that Americans shouldn't use
seatbelts, perhaps the point is that Americans
should resist by disobeying nanny state laws.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

robot that was driving @WookieMan nuts.

I just checked this thread on another browser. Glad I ignored Oil and surprised he's only got 5 so far. Pure rubbish what that bot or copy/past troll puts up here. Will use ignore sparingly, but if it's clear the person isn't real or won't literally participate in the dialog, then goodbye.

WookieMan says

I just checked this thread on another browser. Glad I ignored Oil and surprised he's only got 5 so far. Pure rubbish what that bot or copy/past troll puts up here. Will use ignore sparingly, but if it's clear the person isn't real or won't literally participate in the dialog, then goodbye.

Go easy on him. He just needs a couple of more bottles before he passes out.

oil says

The US is rigged. Since the USA is a police state, Americans are wondering how to resist. Voting doesn't work. Protesting is illegal. An armed rebellion would probably be crushed.

Yet you're still here in this obvious hellscape where most Americans still go to work and pay the rent and screw every weekend and worry more about their credit card bills than the 1 in 10 million chance they will be shot by a cop.

Why are you here?

anon_25c83 says

Yet you're still here in this obvious hellscape where most Americans still go to work and pay the rent and screw every weekend and worry more about their credit card bills than the 1 in 10 million chance they will be shot by a cop.

Why are you here?

Welfare.

Strategist says

He just needs a couple of more bottles

of ether?