patrick.net

socal2 says

Strategist says

Some of us prefer living with shorts, t-shirts, and sandals all year round.

And surf.

There is no surf in Chicago.

We have everything they have, plus everything they don't have.

Actually, there is surfing on areas of Lake Michigan depending on weather.

Don't forget, in Phoenix you have to wear oven gloves to drive, and lizards jump in your ass crack for moisture.

I can see making the jump to Phoenix if a person lived inland like Fresno, Bakersfield, Inland Empire or even Sacramento. Why deal with the California dysfunction and high taxes if you don't get the nice weather and proximity to the beach? But seems really hard to make the leap if you are leaving San Diego. Especially if a person is willing to spend $800K on a house?

Patrick says

I was born in Chicago and lived a big chunk of my life in the Midwest, so I know how shitty the weather is for 6 months of the year. Life is too short to suffer indoors all the time.

Amen, me too.

December through February are bad. You're not going to be swimming during those shoulder months (Oct, Nov & March, April), but it's not that bad. I'd call it 3-4 months of shitty weather. $800k will get you a lot in IL, but then your taxes are fucking $20k.

I was in Phoenix 2 years ago in late August and it absolutely sucked to be outside. Also did a visit in mid May one year and I think we caught a hot spell, but it was 115-120 if I recall correctly. Don't care if it's dry heat or not. That's just awful to be in. So AZ has it's limitations weather wise as well during the hot months if you enjoy outdoor activities at all. At least in the midwest you could always cross country ski or even ski/snowboard at your local hill. Hiking in 120 degree temps does not sound pleasant. And I'm not sure what else you'd do besides swim in that weather.

You're just not going to be Socal weather.

WookieMan says

December through February are bad. You're not going to be swimming during those shoulder months (Oct, Nov & March, April), but it's not that bad. I'd call it 3-4 months of shitty weather. $800k will get you a lot in IL, but then your taxes are fucking $20k.

I was in Phoenix 2 years ago in late August and it absolutely sucked to be outside. Also did a visit in mid May one year and I think we caught a hot spell, but it was 115-120 if I recall correctly. Don't care if it's dry heat or not. That's just awful to be in. So AZ has it's limitations weather wise as well during the hot months if you enjoy outdoor activities at all. At least in the midwest you could always cross country ski or even ski/snowboard at your local hill. Hiking in 120 degree temps does not sound pleasant. And I'm not sure what else you'd do besides swim in that weather.

You're just not going to be Socal weather.

Spring and Summer is no picnic in the Midwest either. It's hot, humid, buggy and stormy. Always a good chance it will rain on your parade if you have any outdoor plans. I was just back in Indianapolis for 10 days visiting family in July and it rained 5 of the days. Came back with a gazillion bug bites too. Also most of the Midwest is flat as pancake. Very few hills or mountains to enjoy.

I was in Phoenix last month for work and it was terribly hot and HUMID thanks to the Monsoon storms. Thankfully it was just a day trip.

I don't even have an air conditioner at my house. Don't need it.

socal2 says

Spring and Summer is no picnic in the Midwest either. It's hot, humid, buggy and stormy. Always a good chance it will rain on your parade if you have any outdoor plans. I was just back in Indianapolis for 10 days visiting family in July and it rained 5 of the days. Came back with a gazillion bug bites too. Also most of the Midwest is flat as pancake. Very few hills or mountains to enjoy.

I was in Phoenix last month for work and it was terribly hot and HUMID thanks to the Monsoon storms. Thankfully it was just a day trip.

I don't even have an air conditioner at my house. Don't need it.

And that's the thing, if weather is a top 3 concern, I don't really see why you would move out of SoCal once there if you can afford it (I don't know if the OP stated weather was that big a concern). Phoenix schools are likely equal. Phoenix has it's pricey spots as well, although it's substantially cheaper overall. At $800k purchase price though, I'd stay in SoCal.

Monsoon storms are lovely. That August trip I mentioned involved one. We were at Alice Cooper'stown bar. Sign got blown off the front of the building into the street. Couldn't exit the building for a good 20-30 minutes after the rain stopped because there was a foot of water surrounding it. Had to wait until it drained down.

I've actually wondered about the mountain vs flat land perspective. I've always lived in flat land and visited mountainous areas across the country. Is there a chance people that grew up always in mountainous areas are fascinated in a different way about flat areas? There are certain drives I take where I'm even kind of shocked how flat it is. It's a different feeling I guess. Not sure how to explain it. I definitely prefer to see and/or be near mountains. Beaches and blue water are a favorite as well.

I travel to Phoenix for business. I love the city but 5-6mo out of the year is pure hell on earth.

The oven mitt comment above when driving is 100% true.

As someone that's lived on the coast his entire life, that would be a very tough transition for me.

We are worried about living in the Phoenix heat, but I'm sick of not having a nice house and paying so much in taxes. $800K does not buy you a nice house in a nice area in San Diego...sorry. I just don't see it when I'm on Redfin.

CA politics and taxes blow chunks, and I'm worried about building long term wealth with how much CA wants to tax me. It's a hard decision

Well, we ended up staying in San Diego. We're going to continue renting and amassing cash for when the next crash happens.

That was my comment above, but forgot to log in.

San Diego is a pretty choice place to live. Especially if you have a house already. Otherwise, renting at least comes with the perk of not having to fix stuff that breaks on the house, or spend money on upgrades. Tile grout black? No scrubbing for you! It's a feature!

anonymous says

Well, we ended up staying in San Diego. We're going to continue renting and amassing cash for when the next crash happens.

You will be renting for a long long time.

San Diego was lovely-stayed there for a few years. It was cheap back then-just past the crash. Phoenix is tough. A couple of my friends there and I call and I guess even night stay at 95 during summer.

Where I live-oh well.Someday I will move again-got a very nice gig going and low cost of living. Just take nice vacations in winter!

Would you surf the waters of San Diego? Pollution keeps getting worse. And then there is hep, hep, hep-a-ti-tis.

Since 1991, I've been telling myself I will accumulate cash and buy at the next crash. Yet none of the crashes were ever enough to cause me to pull the trigger. Recently, after 28 years I quit lying to myself, and knowledged I will be renting for life.

anonymous says

Well, we ended up staying in San Diego. We're going to continue renting and amassing cash for when the next crash happens.

Famous life-long renter words.

Blurtman says

Would you surf the waters of San Diego? Pollution keeps getting worse. And then there is hep, hep, hep-a-ti-tis.

This is why we should round up all the homeless and send them to Detroit. They will fit right in.

Best deal is if you can find a seller you can work with directly, use a lawyer and cut out the bullshit. Personally $800k sounds really pricey for a place in the desert.

They'll just return to collect welfare in CA

Strategist says

Blurtman says

Would you surf the waters of San Diego? Pollution keeps getting worse. And then there is hep, hep, hep-a-ti-tis.

This is why we should round up all the homeless and send them to Detroit. They will fit right in.

NuttBoxer says

Best deal is if you can find a seller you can work with directly, use a lawyer and cut out the bullshit. Personally $800k sounds really pricey for a place in the desert.

In normal markets this is possible. In hot markets like the Bay Area, this is not even the slightest option because too much competition is making offers to the seller.

BayArea says

anonymous says

Well, we ended up staying in San Diego. We're going to continue renting and amassing cash for when the next crash happens.

Famous life-long renter words

Maybe I just got lucky - but it worked for me when we bought in 2011. We rented in San Diego for nearly 15 years before we finally bought.

My realtor hated me. I strung her on for 2 years and probably looked at 70 homes. I wouldn't settle. It helped that we weren't in a hurry, our kids were still very young and not in school, and we were renting a killer place a few blocks from the beach.

Blurtman says

Would you surf the waters of San Diego? Pollution keeps getting worse. And then there is hep, hep, hep-a-ti-tis.

I surf once or twice a week in PB. Never caught anything.

NuttBoxer says

Blurtman says

Would you surf the waters of San Diego? Pollution keeps getting worse. And then there is hep, hep, hep-a-ti-tis.

I surf once or twice a week in PB. Never caught anything.

I surfed in PB/La Jolla for 15 years and never caught anything. Imperial Beach on the other hand is a fucking mess thanks to Mexico. I'd never surf down there.

BTW - I am loving North County surf since I moved up here in 2011. Carlsbad, Oceanside and Encinitas have some great spots and are not nearly as crowded as the city beaches.

I live in South Bay, so I've surfed IB more than a few times. Never caught anything there either, but I never go out in IB without checking the county water quality report first.

Grandview is one of my favorite uncrowded north county breaks, and Tamarak.

Strategist says

You will be renting for a long long time.

Talk to someone who bought in 2005.

BayArea says

anonymous says

Well, we ended up staying in San Diego. We're going to continue renting and amassing cash for when the next crash happens.

Famous life-long renter words.

Let's see. $3200/month to rent, or $4500/month + $180000 down payment to own. I think I'll try avoid getting a swift kick to the nuts.

just any guy says

Let's see. $3200/month to rent, or $4500/month + $180000 down payment to own. I think I'll try avoid getting a swift kick to the nuts.

Do the NYT on it before you make such a swift determination. I bet it is cheaper to own if you plan on being there for 10+ years.

joeyjojojunior says

Do the NYT on it before you make such a swift determination. I bet it is cheaper to own if you plan on being there for 10+ years.

You may be right, but who knows how long I'll be here. I'm not a dentist with my own practice nor do I work for the government where I know I want to retire. I'm a corporate executive with less job security and with also a desire to jump companies if something much better comes along. I don't want to be under water because I bought at a peak, which is my biggest fear, and I don't want to have to wait 10-15 years to break even on selling my house.

Yep--flexibility is a very legitimate reason to rent. I completely understand your reasoning.

just any guy says

Strategist says

You will be renting for a long long time.

Talk to someone who bought in 2005.

My gardener did. He bought a house with no money down, stayed free for more than 2 years before they kicked him out. Lucky bastard.

just any guy says

I don't want to be under water because I bought at a peak, which is my biggest fear

You understand that pretty much by definition, when you buy you buy at what is then the "peak" correct? The only way to get around this is to buy in a declining market (which scares the shit out of everyone) or go back in time and buy in 2012.

As such, if you examine your words, I think you will agree with others that you very well could be renting for a long time - perhaps forever. I am not saying this is bad however - just be very self aware of what your risk tolerance is. You may just find that buying is not right for you. Likewise, understand that if you don't buy, you very well will be nibbled to death in rent increases where you have no choice to move away. This choice isn't great either, but again, its all about self awareness IMO.

Strategist says

just any guy says

Strategist says

You will be renting for a long long time.

Talk to someone who bought in 2005.

My gardener did. He bought a house with no money down, stayed free for more than 2 years before they kicked him out. Lucky bastard.

If the 2005 buyer could afford it, in most places he is above water now. And he is now 12 years into his note - 18 years til being payment fee and eating through principal at a very fast rate. I'm sure the first years of worry sucked, but he would much rather be where he is now than having rented for 12 years and NOW thinking about starting that 30 year clock to freedom.

somecrappynumber says

If the 2005 buyer could afford it, in most places he is above water now.

Calculated against inflation? Guessing not.

somecrappynumber says

30 year clock to freedom.

If freedom can only be purchased with 30 years of slavery, it's not worth shit. 30 year originated for vets, 15 used to be standard. For responsible people, 15 is still standard.

NuttBoxer says

Calculated against inflation? Guessing not.

I said above water in part because of principal pay down - inflation is a fair point and more important if you are looking at better investment, but this has little to do with under/above water which is nominal.

NuttBoxer says

somecrappynumber says

30 year clock to freedom.

If freedom can only be purchased with 30 years of slavery, it's not worth shit. 30 year originated for vets, 15 used to be standard. For responsible people, 15 is still standard.

Ok then, for the responsible person that would be 12 down, 3 til freedom. Still, even at 30 years, very few people who rent for 40-50 or 60 years would call a mere 30 year payment term "slavery"

somecrappynumber says

As such, if you examine your words, I think you will agree with others that you very well could be renting for a long time - perhaps forever. I am not saying this is bad however - just be very self aware of what your risk tolerance is. You may just find that buying is not right for you. Likewise, understand that if you don't buy, you very well will be nibbled to death in rent increases where you have no choice to move away. This choice isn't great either, but again, its all about self awareness IMO.

He's right, just any guy. You are taking a greater risk by waiting for a crash, and not buying now.

somecrappynumber says

My gardener did. He bought a house with no money down, stayed free for more than 2 years before they kicked him out. Lucky bastard.

If the 2005 buyer could afford it, in most places he is above water now. And he is now 12 years into his note - 18 years til being payment fee and eating through principal at a very fast rate. I'm sure the first years of worry sucked, but he would much rather be where he is now than having rented for 12 years and NOW thinking about starting that 30 year clock to freedom.

Even buying at the worst possible time and holding on to the property, works out better than not buying at all.

somecrappynumber says

very few people who rent for 40-50 or 60 years would call a mere 30 year payment term "slavery"

Sorry, to be clear I don't consider rent slavery, because it doesn't involve debt and it's much easier to leave a rental than a house you still owe on.

NuttBoxer says

Sorry, to be clear I don't consider rent slavery, because it doesn't involve debt and it's much easier to leave a rental than a house you still owe on.

The slavery analogy is ridiculous. You have to pay for housing whether you rent or buy.

Renting does offer more flexibility, but almost always costs more over longer time frames.

The only people who aren't "slaves" are the guys who read patnet between shits at the public library before they go back to their mattress under The highway overpass.