patrick.net

Strategist is mostly right here. The issue is that - roughly spoken - quality of life for middle-class to upper-class (not uber-wealthy) families has largely remained flat or even declined (if you factor in that both have to be working) while the quality of life for net drainers (up to lower middle-class) and welfare kings and queens has improved. They don't have to work and yet have plenty to eat (so many get fat). This phenomenon has been perpetuated by both sides forever (although to a lesser degree by mainstream Republicans), and under Obummer this phenomenon clearly got worse. Hence the urge for everybody who is not a net-drainer but a net-contributor with a decent salary to vote for whatever Republican tax plan comes down, even if it also greatly helps the uber-wealthy.

mell says

Strategist is mostly right here

No, Strat is 100% wrong here. I don't think he even knows what he's arguing other than welfare queens have cell phones so therefore their life must be better.

mell says

They don't have to work and yet have plenty to eat (so many get fat).

This narrative has been proven to be bullshit so many times I can't even count, but yet it persists by folks like you and Strat. It's really sad.

Strategist says

Nevertheless, travel has increased exponentially in the last few decades. Only the rich, who would dress up for a flight, could afford airline travel. I just took a roundtrip on Spirit from San Diego to Baltimore for $114 roundtrip. I'm going to Italy Monday because it was so damn cheap.

Because Carter deregulated the airlines. What does that have to do with the the middle class losing ground the last 40 years?

Strategist says

More and more people can travel, afford toys like boats, jet skis, RV's etc.

Your evidence that average earners can afford toys today more than they could in 1970 is what exactly? Because you say so? You can't even come up with meaningless anecdotal examples.

CBOEtrader says

The discussion is about how capitalism, specifically free market capitalism, helps the underclass.

Like the guilded age or russia after the fall of the wall? That kind of free market capitalism?

What's hilarious is that folks on here are using government programs (SNAP, WIC, section 8, Medicaid, etc.) to show that free market capitalism helps the poor.

Perhaps you guys should rethink your argument? If free market capitalism helped the underclass, we wouldn't need those programs.

joeyjojojunior says

If free market capitalism helped the underclass, we wouldn't need those programs.

Brilliant analysis Joe. Also, if you lived in communist Russia you should probably starve to death rather than eat the bread you get from the food line. Wouldnt want to be a hypocrite, amirite?

CBOEtrader says

Brilliant analysis Joe. Also, if you lived in communist Russia you should probably starve to death rather than eat the bread you get from the food line. Wouldnt want to be a hypocrite, amirite?

Wtf are you talking about? That is not every remotely hypocritical.

Pointing out that free market capitalism doesn't help the underclass means I can't eat bread in Russia?

joeyjojojunior says

What's hilarious is that folks on here are using government programs (SNAP, WIC, section 8, Medicaid, etc.) to show that free market capitalism helps the poor.

Perhaps you guys should rethink your argument? If free market capitalism helped the underclass, we wouldn't need those programs.

If the bums were willing to work instead of freeloading, we wouldn't need those programs.

Strategist says

If the bums were willing to work instead of freeloading, we wouldn't need those programs.

Ah yes, the rationalization that allows Republicans to sleep at night. All welfare recipients are lazy bums who don't want to work. Freeloaders. Right up there with the myth that people who make more money are harder workers...

CBOEtrader says

This is your core problem. You consistently redefine the world around you to keep your labels in place to which you are loyal. You creatively translate language around you constantly. I've noticed Dan does this often as well (calling antifa conservative for example, lolz). TBF, right/left/conservative have all lost definitive meaning. Liberal does still cling to its original definition, but only outside of the democratic party in Rand Paul and a few others.

Communism vs capitalism however CAN be defined, and more importantly measured by metrics from the real world. For ex I suggest the most important metric should be % of GDP taxed by the state. How free is the economy?

Agreed. Well said.

joeyjojojunior says

mell says

They don't have to work and yet have plenty to eat (so many get fat).

This narrative has been proven to be bullshit so many times I can't even count, but yet it persists by folks like you and Strat. It's really sad.

Absolutely not. This narrative has been proven in countless studies. Please don't just spout stuff because you don't like the facts. People who earn more are also more active during the day and engage in more in physical activities - despite having less time from working all day.

http://healthland.time.com/2012/05/16/cdc-higher-income-and-education-levels-linked-to-better-health/

mell says

Absolutely not. This narrative has been proven in countless studies

OK great--please post one.

mell says

People who earn more are also more active during the day and engage in more in physical activities - despite having less time from working all day.

Yep--what does that have to do with the topic at hand?

me123 says

Not a myth, if you would actually work during the day, instead of stealing money from your employer while posting on Patnet, you'd be surprised how much you could earn.

But since you're a "taker" (and Bernie supporter), versus being a "maker", that concept totally escapes you.

And if you could ever stay on a topic rather than trying to make everything personal, you might not be such a troll.