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2nd Amendment Discussion


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2018 Feb 17, 11:51am   283,080 views  1,403 comments

by CajunSteve   ➕follow (1)   💰tip   ignore  

With all the talk about the school shootings, let's take a look at what the 2nd Amendment actually says:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Couple things to note in there:

1. The specific mention of a militia being the reason for the need to bear arms.
2. The 2nd Amendment never mentions the word gun at all.

So, what exactly is the definition of "arms"?

In 1755 Dr. Johnson’s Dictionary of the English Language was first published. It defined “arms” as “weapons of offence, or armour of defence.”

Weapons of offence would seem to include pretty much anything and everything, from knives to nuclear weapons. The US has already seen fit to ban some weapons of offence so the 2nd Amendment clearly has not been interpreted strictly as meaning that the US cannot ban all "arms". Therefore, the 2nd Amendment does not guarantee citizens the right to own whatever weapons they choose.

So it then becomes a question of which weapons should be banned, which should be strictly regulated, and which should be lightly regulated or not at all. Like anything else, we should weigh an individual's right with society's right. When looked at in that manner, it becomes very difficult to justify why fully automatic or semi automatic rifles should be allowed. What purpose do they serve an individual? And why would that purpose outweigh the extreme damage those weapons have cased society??

Patrick thinks the Chamber of Commerce is the worst organization, and he may be correct, but the NRA is not far behind.



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1078   AmericanKulak   2023 Oct 9, 12:33pm  

Yeah, the Israeli Government is now rethinking the Civilian possession of firearms. It was possible with restrictions, looks like they're going to lighten the burden.
1079   Eric Holder   2023 Oct 9, 12:58pm  

Where were all these hot chicks with M-16s slung from their shoulder walking down the streets and sitting in cafes we're so used to see on pictures from Israel?
1081   Patrick   2023 Oct 10, 1:49pm  

Eric Holder says


Where were all these hot chicks with M-16s slung from their shoulder walking down the streets and sitting in cafes we're so used to see on pictures from Israel?


I was there decades ago, and there were indeed guns everywhere.

But it seems that since then the general populace has been disarmed. That's frankly insane in a place like Israel. Why would the population agree to that? Are they all libtarded to death? I don't like to use the term libtard, but it seems perfectly appropriate here.
1083   Patrick   2023 Oct 12, 10:48am  

https://jpfo.org/alerts2023/alert20231012.htm


MAKE IT EASIER TO ARM AMERICANS NOW.
"Standing with Israel" Is Not Enough Mr. President!

Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership says, don't repeat Israel's error and wait for an attack. "Death to America" is still a thing. Joe Biden said, "We stand with Israel," and JPFO says that's insufficient. Under wartime duress, Israel is now re-arming its citizens, following years of weakening their right to keep and bear arms. America must learn from this bloody lesson. "If there had been more armed women at that concert, there might be fewer dead," said consultant Beth Terry, Certified Speaking Professional, a staunch friend of JPFO. "Death to America" is and has been on the lips of these treacherous villains for decades. Follow foreign news sources—you'll hear people cheering the attack on Israel, just like they did after the attack on 9-11, as brainwashed college students join in, some in Australia chanting, "Gas the Jews". We, here at home, face a serious risk. Promote marksmanship training nationwide now. Open all government ranges to full-fledged civilian marksmanship, required by law, 10 USC §4309. JPFO tells President Biden, don't get caught with our pants down. Don't just "stand" there, act.

"The right to keep and bear arms is natural and universal. The Israeli people have every right to own and carry firearms to defend themselves and we applaud the Israeli government for retracting its tyranny and encourage it to continue", said James Jones, Projects Director and Sentinel editor at JPFO. Israel once encouraged citizens to own and carry. Gradual infringement cut this natural right to self-defense and arms ownership. Danger is what you get when a government denies civil rights. In light of the recent terrorist attack, Israel has relaxed its gun laws by expediting permits, allowing telephone permit applications and increasing ammo-purchase maximums from 50 rounds to 100; however, they have retained waiting periods and prohibitions on long guns. This is a good first step, but a small one.

America needs to remove any restrictions on peaceful possession of arms— infringements—banned by the Constitution. Officials who act to maintain infringements need to face charges for aggravated infringement—putting innocent lives in danger. Denial of civil rights is a crime, 18 USC §242. Aiding our enemies by disarming us must stop.
1085   AmericanKulak   2023 Oct 12, 2:33pm  

Patrick says

But it seems that since then the general populace has been disarmed. That's frankly insane in a place like Israel. Why would the population agree to that? Are they all libtarded to death? I don't like to use the term libtard, but it seems perfectly appropriate here.

The Wall.

The Wall cut the terror attacks down massively, like 80-90%. Walls work. So I guess they decided to reduce paperwork, logistics, etc. and only do partial armament.

They were armed to the teeth when i was there in the late 80s, during the First Antifada Intifada.
1088   HeadSet   2023 Oct 15, 7:02am  

Who are those folks?
1089   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2023 Oct 15, 7:16am  

HeadSet says

Who are those folks?


guy in red is Thomas Massie, rest are likely his family.
1091   HeadSet   2023 Oct 15, 3:47pm  

Schools used to have shooting clubs.
1095   fdhfoiehfeoi   2023 Oct 16, 11:06am  

Patrick says






Replace that with a picture of DC government and you're a lot closer.
1096   RC2006   2023 Oct 17, 6:54pm  

Buy ammo if you need it now. Hornady plant had a explosion with one death. A friend of mine that is in gun business told me Saturday that a ammo maker in utah cancelled all commercial orders and is sending everything to gov.

Edit just found this link.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Lake-City-Ammo-Plant-Cancels-All-Commercial-Contracts/5-2680507/
1098   stereotomy   2023 Oct 18, 3:39am  

RC2006 says

Buy ammo if you need it now. Hornady plant had a explosion with one death. A friend of mine that is in gun business told me Saturday that a ammo maker in utah cancelled all commercial orders and is sending everything to gov.

Edit just found this link.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Lake-City-Ammo-Plant-Cancels-All-Commercial-Contracts/5-2680507/

In the PRNY, all ammo purchases have to do a NICS check, and our sainted governor Hochul has put a $2.50 surcharge per box on shotshell ammo ($25/flat).

I picked up some smokeless powder, and the clerk was wondering if it qualified as ammo. I said "Until they figure out how to turn powder into a shotshell, it's not ammo - you need hulls, primers, powder, wads, and shot. Then again, our politicians are very creative - they might find a way to magically transform this powder into ammo. Until then, I don't think 16 pounds of smokeless powder qualifies as ammo."

She agreed.
1099   Eric Holder   2023 Oct 20, 11:03am  

Check out this AK w/o front sight:



https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1714733485271724215

And WTF is with the crooked magazine? Has this guy ever seen an AK before?
1100   Patrick   2023 Oct 21, 10:50am  

https://twitter.com/WallStreetApes/status/1714654009573912586



Wall Street Apes
@WallStreetApes
This Is A True America First Patriot. He Vows To Swear In 10s Of Thousands Of Citizens As Deputy Sheriffs To Defend His Counties Borders With Weapons Including AR-15s 👏🏻 🇺🇸

“I’m gonna use the office of sheriff the power I do have without arguing over a bill or law that's being passed. I have the ability to swear in citizens as deputy sheriffs. I have no limit on the number. I don't have a limit to my county borders. And as I told them in Richmond and I mean it today, just as well if Congress chooses to go down that road.

I will swear in tens of thousands of citizens as deputy sheriffs provided they have their own weapons and be on call and available to me for service.

And they will be allowed to keep those AR-15s, high capacity magazines and whatever else it is, generally speaking, that's being talked about through all the chatter and rhetoric. These people are not going to suddenly, because they're sworn in as my deputy sheriff, start to run out and commit crimes and do bad things with the guns they've owned for decades. They're citizens that elected me into office to protect them and protect their rights. And that's one way I can use the power of my office.”


1101   Patrick   2023 Oct 21, 3:23pm  

https://archive.ph/UdcSu


When Hamas Attacked, This Israeli Kibbutz Fought Back and Won

A dozen volunteers defended the families of a farming community in southern Israel from Hamas fighters who came to take hostages

At 6:56 a.m. on Oct. 7, Moshe Kaplan sent an urgent alert to his volunteer security force in Mefalsim, a kibbutz of 1,000 men, women and children in southern Israel where he served as security chief.

“There’s a shooting in the village from the gate!” he texted after militants fired at his car as he drove past the main entrance. Attackers later blew open a pedestrian gate nearby with explosives and flooded into the kibbutz.

Kaplan rushed home to grab his armored vest, helmet and M16 rifle, then drove off to check another gate on the northwest corner. There he found armed men were already inside the razor-wire security fence that encircled the community.

“Terrorists in the kibbutz! Terrorists in the kibbutz!” he yelled in a second, panicked voice text, begging his men to hurry. Gunshots sounded in the background. He had trained a dozen men for this moment, a surprise attack from nearby Gaza. Yet 19 minutes after his first alert, none had arrived.

Kaplan left his car and shot at assailants from behind a metal garbage container. One lobbed a hand grenade at him. In a stroke of luck for him and Mefalsim, it didn’t explode.

More than two dozen Hamas fighters from Gaza had arrived with orders to subdue the small security force and herd hostages into the community dining hall. They carried a detailed map of the kibbutz and, like other assault teams in southern Israel that morning, an attack plan labeled “top secret.”
Mefalsim was one place that day where nothing for the Hamas attackers went according to plan.

Soon after Kaplan’s call for help, his volunteers rushed from their homes in helmets and protective vests worn over the T-shirts they had slept in, toting M16 rifles. Outnumbered and fighting alone or in pairs, the men mounted a life-or-death stand, communicating via walkie-talkie and WhatsApp texts to track the militants and send each other help.

They believed they had to hold off the insurgents long enough for the Israeli army to arrive. At first, they hoped the soldiers would be there quickly. But as minutes passed, and the fighting grew worse, they realized they would have to fight alone.

“Where are the tanks?” Yarden Reskin, a 38-year-old landscape architect and security volunteer yelled into his walkie-talkie as the bullets flew. “It became very, very apparent that they weren’t coming,” he said later.

Palestinian gunmen who flooded out of Gaza killed 1,400 Israelis and took close to 200 hostages, terrorizing and shooting people at more than 20 Israeli towns and military bases and thousands at an all-night music festival not far from Mefalsim.

In town after town, attackers blasted through security fences that encircled Israeli villages near Gaza, gunning down residents, burning houses with families inside and taking hostages.

Bodies and the burned-up cars of people fleeing the music festival, an early target, were later found outside Mefalsim’s main gate.

Frightened families at the kibbutz, a 200-acre, close-knit community with farm fields and tree-lined streets, took refuge in home shelters, some watching accounts of assaults in nearby towns on phones and TVs. They heard heavy gunfire just outside.

“We didn’t know what all the shooting meant,” said Gil Levi, 17, who was home with her mother, Inbal, younger brother Noam Levi and boyfriend, Ofir Itamari. Her father, Eli Levi, had told them not to come out of the shelter, no matter what.

He was in the living room standing watch through the plate-glass window, facing the southern fence of the kibbutz and the fields that stretched beyond.
When Levi saw militants heading toward the fence, he shot his M16 through the window. All his family could hear inside the shelter was the sound of gunfire.

“Were the terrorists inside the house?” Gil Levi recalled thinking.

Gil’s boyfriend handed her a souvenir Japanese knife he had found in the shelter and a pair of scissors to her mother, in case they had to fight off the intruders themselves. ...

‘One against four’

Porat, an Israeli army veteran and one of the volunteers in Mefalsim’s security force, ran out his door with an M16 and hustled to a street lined with houses on one side and a kibbutz gate on the other. About 40 yards away, he saw four armed men in vests and black jeans.

Thinking he recognized one of them, he called out, “Sasi!” the Hebrew nickname of another member of the volunteer force. “Ta’al,” one of them responded, meaning “Come here” in Arabic. Porat realized they were militants and started shooting. Two of the armed men ran toward nearby houses for cover. Two others hid behind a parked car.

Porat, who had been in firefights as a soldier, ducked into a small concrete enclosure for trash cans. “It’s a very lonely feeling,” he said later, “especially when you are one against four.”

A resident who watched the exchange of gunfire from an upstairs window yelled a warning to Porat: “They are throwing grenades!” Porat ducked and escaped injury. When one of the militants ran from a yard into the open, Porat shot him.

A second attacker raised his head from behind the car, and Porat said he shot him, too. He saw a third gunman running away. The fourth attacker disappeared, said Porat, who stayed put for the next hour, guarding the kibbutz gate to keep out any others.

Photos taken later showed two dead men, one on the sidewalk and one in the street.

Video from a security camera at the main gate of Mefalsim captured some of the carnage that took place outside the main gate of the kibbutz as people fled the outdoor music festival and tried desperately to get inside, pursued by militants. A man in a white shirt was shot as he ran toward the entrance. He grabbed his right arm and dropped to the pavement, blood spilling from around his head.

Armed fighters emerged from a wooded area minutes later. Several ran to the fallen man and shot him again. Drivers who abandoned cars to hide in the bushes were attacked with grenades. A person pulled from the bushes was shot and bludgeoned with a rifle butt. The video was posted by South First Responders, a group of emergency personnel working in southern Israel, and verified by The Wall Street Journal.

After militants blew open the entrance at the kibbutz gate and streamed inside, Kaplan kept on the move, worried residents would leave their houses into danger.

“Someone send out a message to stay in the houses and not come out,” Kaplan said in a WhatsApp voice message, breathing heavily. “Emergency task force come to me! Emergency task force come to me! They are splitting up.” Shots cracked in the background.

Over the next hour, there were several gunfights. Security volunteers hunted for the militants who were moving alone and in pairs on residential streets. Two attackers were killed in the garden of a house by four Israeli soldiers who were home on a weekend leave. Two of the soldiers suffered minor wounds from grenade fragments.

Almost an hour after the battle erupted by the front gate, the fighting shifted to Mefalsim’s southern perimeter.

David “Didi” Rosenberg, a member of the volunteer force, stood on his second-floor balcony where he kept watch on Mefalsim’s southeast fence, armed with his M16. His wife, who was in the home’s shelter with their two children, texted him, “I’m scared.” He suggested games to play with the kids.

Rosenberg, whose balcony overlooks the fence, reported over his walkie-talkie that a truck carrying a dozen armed men and a motorcycle ferrying two gunmen were roaring across an open field toward the fence.

Levi, 48, the head of security and emergency management for Intel in Israel, had also been watching the southern perimeter through his living-room window, and he saw the attackers when they were about 100 yards away.

Levi, a former Israeli soldier, said he froze for a few seconds, thinking of the danger to his family. Then he heard Rosenberg, a few houses away, open fire, prompting Levi to start shooting at the attackers from his living-room window.

Noam Kazaz, 52, who had evacuated with his family to the house of another kibbutz resident shortly after his own was hit by a rocket, called Rosenberg. “We will die on the fence. No one is entering the kibbutz,” he recalled saying before he opened fire.

The three volunteers hadn’t trained to shoot at such a far range. But their heavy gunfire prompted the motorcycle driver to turn around. The men riding on the truck jumped off and flattened on the ground. Levi thought he could see several had been hit. ...

No Mefalsim residents were killed or taken hostage, protected by a dozen residents, many of them former Israeli soldiers, who had prepared for years to defend the kibbutz. ...
1102   Patrick   2023 Oct 21, 3:25pm  

https://crimeresearch.org/2022/11/concealed-carry-permit-holders-across-the-united-states-2021-2/





8.5% of American adults have permits. Outside of the restrictive states of California and New York, about 10.2% of adults have a permit.


I didn't know it was that high.
1103   Bd6r   2023 Oct 21, 4:46pm  

After I buy 3-4 more long guns, I THINK I will be done with my firearms purchases. Not sure though as I might find something else interesting…last thing was a Swedish Mauser which appears to be better engineered than anything made in 21st century despite being made 110 years ago.
God Bless Texas which makes firearms and ammo purchases easy.

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