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2nd Amendment Discussion


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2018 Feb 17, 11:51am   283,505 views  1,411 comments

by CajunSteve   ➕follow (1)   💰tip   ignore  

With all the talk about the school shootings, let's take a look at what the 2nd Amendment actually says:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Couple things to note in there:

1. The specific mention of a militia being the reason for the need to bear arms.
2. The 2nd Amendment never mentions the word gun at all.

So, what exactly is the definition of "arms"?

In 1755 Dr. Johnson’s Dictionary of the English Language was first published. It defined “arms” as “weapons of offence, or armour of defence.”

Weapons of offence would seem to include pretty much anything and everything, from knives to nuclear weapons. The US has already seen fit to ban some weapons of offence so the 2nd Amendment clearly has not been interpreted strictly as meaning that the US cannot ban all "arms". Therefore, the 2nd Amendment does not guarantee citizens the right to own whatever weapons they choose.

So it then becomes a question of which weapons should be banned, which should be strictly regulated, and which should be lightly regulated or not at all. Like anything else, we should weigh an individual's right with society's right. When looked at in that manner, it becomes very difficult to justify why fully automatic or semi automatic rifles should be allowed. What purpose do they serve an individual? And why would that purpose outweigh the extreme damage those weapons have cased society??

Patrick thinks the Chamber of Commerce is the worst organization, and he may be correct, but the NRA is not far behind.



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1169   RWSGFY   2023 Dec 12, 8:44am  

S. President Joe Biden's son Hunter asked a federal judge to dismiss criminal gun charges against him because the law is unconstitutional and government lawyers had earlier agreed not to prosecute him, his legal team said in Monday court filings.

The law used to charge Hunter Biden is likely unconstitutional under the reasoning that the U.S. Supreme Court has said should be applied when assessing limits on firearms, according to a filing in federal court in Wilmington, Delaware...

Hunter Biden's legal team said that the framers of the U.S. Constitution were well aware of problems caused by intoxication but there is no history of preventing substance abusers from acquiring firearms.

"In truth, the statute is indefensible under the Bruen framework," said a filing by Hunter Biden's legal team.

The gun charges are separate from criminal tax charges that were filed against Hunter Biden on Thursday in federal court in California, accusing him of failing to pay $1.4 million in taxes while living a lavish lifestyle. Hunter Biden's lawyer said he repaid the taxes in full...
1171   Patrick   2023 Dec 15, 4:01pm  

https://selfreliancecentral.com/2023/12/12/can-you-guess-which-demographic-group-is-now-taking-advantage-of-the-second-amendment/


Can you guess which demographic group is now taking advantage of the Second Amendment?

After the Oct. 7 Hamas attack on Israel, many Jews around the world are choosing to arm themselves for self-defense, according to a panel of Jewish professionals.

“Jews tend not to own guns, and that’s very unfortunate, because if you look at our history, we could’ve used one or two throughout that time,” Karol Markowicz, a columnist for the New York Post and Fox News, said at the Jewish Gun Ownership and Self-Defense event at The Heritage Foundation on Thursday. (The Daily Signal is Heritage’s news and commentary outlet.)

Any Jew in America who doesn't procure firearms and get trained in their use is making the same mistake millions of Jews made in 1930's Germany.

NEVER AGAIN is NOW! Be prepared this time. https://t.co/iPNSD0IytI

— James Woods (@RealJamesWoods) December 9, 2023
The Oct. 7 attack is what convinced Markowicz, who is Jewish, to become a gun owner and get both a handgun and an AR-15. She said she believes the terrorist attack has created a shift in the Jewish community and now more people are inclined to arm themselves.

“When I went shooting on Oct. 10, [there were] tons of Jews at the shooting range. [A] girl walks out with a Chanel bag and a big Jewish star, and we give each other kind of a nod,” Markowicz said.

“I don’t understand how one can look at Jewish history and think that leaving Jewish security unto others is a winning strategy,” said syndicated columnist and Newsweek senior editor Josh Hammer at the self-defense event.
1172   Patrick   2023 Dec 21, 11:22am  

https://notthebee.com/article/welcome-to-new-york-city-where-criminals-are-now-pistol-whipping-5-year-old-girls-during-midnight-break-ins


Number 1:
Have a gun that you regularly train with.

Owning a gun is not enough. Have you ever had to pull the trigger on someone in the heat of an adrenaline rush, particularly when you are groggy in the dead of night?

99% of you have not.

Get a gun and train with it. Put a few hundred rounds through it (at least) before you decide to use it for defense. Get a literal feel for the blaster. Know the trigger break point and what the recoil is like.

In this author's opinion, the "just buy a shotgun" mentality is dumb (Sorry, Biden!). Shotguns are big, unwieldy, and blast the heck out of a large radius that might involve family members. You also have limited shots.

Pistols are an easy entry point and rapid-access safes are affordable.

But if you want my opinion, have a pistol carbine or an AR pistol - preferably one chambered in a round like BLK 300 that allow for full powder burn with shorter barrels. If 4 baddies with pistols show up, you can outgun them with a rifle. You cannot do so with a pistol unless you sleep with multiple mags in your tighty whities and you're named John Wick. ...

Number 2:
Fortify your house, particularly your doors.

That deadbolt? Yeah, a 200-pound man can kick through it in 1-3 kicks most times.

Oh, you have a little chain that you think will protect you? Anyone could bust that in a second.

You need products that secure the door beyond a simple deadbolt. There are many products, but here's one that I use, complete with the cheesy infomercial music that makes America great.

(Alarms are great too but a determined bad guy can kill you before the cops come, just FYI.)

Number 3:
Have a plan.

This applies especially for those moments when a husband might be away, because bad guys are cowards and they'd rather pistol whip moms and their kindergarteners instead of take on a full-grown dude.

Do your kids know how to respond if they hear someone breaking in? Is there a place they can go to hide if they hear yelling or gunshots? We often practice fire drills with our kids, but in our world today, break-in and active shooter training should be part of our families' arsenal.

Does your wife know her way around a firearm? Could she use it if she had to? If not, would she use bear spray or another deterrent? Does she practice the same security routine as you at night to ensure the house is locked down?

All your range training means nothing if the bad guys wait until you're gone and then hit your home, like these perps did.

Don't be another statistic.

And if you live in a place like NYC and want to stay there, maybe vote the losers out of office who want to disarm you while letting criminals roam the streets.
1173   Onvacation   2023 Dec 21, 12:38pm  

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

what’s that hanging on the mag clip of the girl in sandals?

Another magazine. Soldiers often tape two together so when one runs out they just have to drop and flip to have a full mag.
1174   Onvacation   2023 Dec 21, 12:40pm  

Sometimes 3 mags.

1176   Onvacation   2023 Dec 21, 2:08pm  

Patrick says





Some women are trying to.


1177   Onvacation   2023 Dec 21, 2:11pm  

Accessorizing with an AR adds to a woman's beauty.


1181   RWSGFY   2023 Dec 26, 10:54am  

Patrick says






BUT HE DIDN'T SHOOT HIS EYE OUT!!!
1183   HeadSet   2023 Dec 27, 8:09pm  

Patrick says





Because that rifle was so badly made it could not hit anything that far away.
1188   RWSGFY   2023 Dec 31, 9:27pm  

HeadSet says

Patrick says






Because that rifle was so badly made it could not hit anything that far away.


Really? I never heard anyone badmouthing Carcano M91 rifle in this fashion and "that far" was never more than 90 yards. It's not a hard shot from a standing position with iron sights, let alone from supported position and with a scope. Especially for a US Marine - they do get better marksmanship training than Army guys.
1189   HeadSet   2024 Jan 1, 8:23am  

RWSGFY says

Really? I never heard anyone badmouthing Carcano M91 rifle i

You may be right. I had read an article (I think from a Patnet poster link) that wrote about how that particular rifle could not have been that accurate. As I looked for that article, I can across many more that support your point of view.
1191   RWSGFY   2024 Jan 1, 12:38pm  

Starting today there will
be an additional 11% tax on all guns and ammo sold in Kalifornistan.
1192   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2024 Jan 1, 1:19pm  

RWSGFY says


Starting today there will
be an additional 11% tax on all guns and ammo sold in Kalifornistan.


too many migrants there who put up with government fucking them as long as they can have a job, and too many republicans who “i’m not interested in social issues”. and too many foolish liberals who think guns cause crimes.
1195   fdhfoiehfeoi   2024 Jan 5, 7:02am  

Patrick says

but in our world today, break-in and active shooter training should be part of our families' arsenal.


To add some context, that world only exists if you move your family into cities. In the foothills east of San Diego that stuff doesn't happen, and a lot more people have guns. In Arizona we live about 10 miles from the outdoor range, and here just about everything is legal to own. Not against this guys list, but he should really emphasize leaving as the best defense to the nonsense going on in cities today.

Oh yeah, and about half the population of Yuma are active duty Marines. Good luck bad guys...
1198   Reality   2024 Jan 7, 11:42am  

RWSGFY says


Really? I never heard anyone badmouthing Carcano M91 rifle in this fashion and "that far" was never more than 90 yards. It's not a hard shot from a standing position with iron sights, let alone from supported position and with a scope. Especially for a US Marine - they do get better marksmanship training than Army guys.


The distance was significantly more than 90 yards. Even if the street distance is 90 yards, a bullet travelling from 6 stories up (20 yards in height) would travel more than 90 yards. More importantly: bullets do not travel in straight lines but in curves as gravity acts on the bullets. A 22LR bullet leaving the muzzle perfectly level would drop 5-6" at 100 yards distance, 20" or more at 150 yards. That's why iron sights on rifles are adjustable and supposed to set to distance (which is only set up according to level shooting). That's why anyone with any sniper training would try to shoot at near-level to target, so the distance can be optically measured and the sight slider set according to the optical range finder reading (before today's microprocessor and gravity sensor embedded range and deflection calculators mounted directly on the gun, so the barrel to level angle can be calculated instantly and the image shifted for the sniper viewing a LCD display). It was essentially impossible for anyone to shoot from high up in the building down at that distance without firing ranging shots (and tracers in order to see where the bullets land then adjust, "walking" subsequent bullets to target), because the pre-cut range marks on the iron sight would be useless when shooting downwards like that. That's why multiple teams had to be deployed (supposedly nearly half a dozen sniper teams, each consisting of sniper and spotter) and almost all missed. The one finally got JFK was shooting from the flood drain opening under the sidewalk curb immediately next to the stopped limo, i.e. from a distance only a few yards, comparable to the length of the limo itself. That's why decades later the assassination attempt on Reagan was carried out at extremely close distance using a pistol.
1200   RWSGFY   2024 Jan 7, 3:16pm  

Patrick says






Yeah, perfect size to
prevent rape on a date...
1201   RWSGFY   2024 Jan 7, 3:33pm  

Yeah, if the distance between the bulding and the target is 90 yards and the shooter is on 6th floor, this will SIGNIFICANLY INCREASE THE DISTANCE to the target! I mean, the 6th floor is UP THERE IN THE AIR!!!! Like 20 yards high! Which means that the bullet has to travel not 90 yards, but ... gasp! .... 92 yards!!! THIS IS SIGNIFICANT, FOLKS!!!

And and since no Marine could ever be expected to engage enemy at such a significant distance and with such enormous elevation difference, they simply don't train for that! Ever! Now, if bullets traveled in the straight line, there would be hope to hit a human-sized target at such great distance, but they don't!!! Bullets travel in an arch trajectory, which, BTW, makes it posible to shoot around a corner: all you need to do is lay you rifle on its side. 🤡

I'm sorry, but there is nothing hard about that shot. It's actually very trivial for any average shooter, let alone a US Marine with a scoped rifle.

PS. Since we into advanced ballistics now 🤡 that 6.5 Carcano round is known for being rather flat-shooting (not that it mattered anyway).

PPS. When shooting at a vertical angle (no matter up or down) the gun would hit higher. It's not hard to "Kentucky hold" for that. It also might explain the headshot if the shooter was aiming at center-of-mass.
1202   Reality   2024 Jan 7, 4:06pm  

RWSGFY says


And and since no Marine could ever be expected to engage enemy at such a significant distance and with such enormous elevation difference, they simply don't train for that! Ever! Now, if bullets traveled in the straight line, there would be hope to hit a human-sized target at such great distance, but they don't!!! Bullets travel in an arch trajectory, wilhich, BTW, makes it posible to shoot around a corner: all you need to do is lay you rifle on its side. 🤡

I'm sorry, but there is nothing hard about that shot. It's actually very trivial for any average shooter, let alone a US Marine with a scoped rifle.


Typical content-free distraction. Apparently, either your reading comprehension didn't understand the more important point in my previous post, or being either a paid or self-motivated propagandist bent on the cover-up, you'd rather make up nonsense to distract from the inconvenient facts raised. Here, restated for your benefit:

Bullets do not travel in straight lines but in ballistic curves as gravity acts on the bullets. A 22LR bullet leaving the muzzle perfectly level would drop 5-6" at 100 yards distance, 20" or more at 150 yards. That's why iron sights on rifles are adjustable and supposed to set to correct distance marker (which is only marked according to level shooting) before firing. That's why anyone with any sniper training would try to shoot at near-level to target, so the distance can be optically measured and the sight slider set according to the optical range finder reading (before today's microprocessor and gravity sensor embedded range and deflection calculators mounted directly on the gun, so the barrel to level angle can be calculated instantly and the image shifted for the sniper viewing a LCD display). It was essentially impossible for anyone to shoot from high up in the building down at that distance without firing ranging shots (and tracers in order to see where the bullets land then adjust, "walking" subsequent bullets to target), because the pre-cut range marks on the iron sight would be useless when shooting downwards like that. That's why multiple teams had to be deployed (supposedly nearly half a dozen sniper teams, each consisting of sniper and spotter) and almost all missed. The one finally got JFK was shooting from the flood drain opening under the sidewalk curb immediately next to the stopped limo, i.e. from a distance only a few yards, comparable to the length of the limo itself. That's why decades later the assassination attempt on Reagan was carried out at extremely close distance using a pistol.

In order for a marine, or in this case a bunch of Special Ops snipers, to hit a target at significantly downward direction on first shot, the target zone would have to be pre-registered (just like typical beach defense machineguns and direct-fire artillery facing the water downwards). Did Lee Harvey Oswald go to the building day/weeks before the shooting to pre-register his gun and gun-siting? dividing the street and intersection into multiple zones of fire, with corresponding gun positions locked in? The lack of pre-registration (i.e. having already fired into those zones and recorded each correct gun position corresponding to where the bullets/shells would land) was the reason why all those Special Ops snipers failed to hit JFK from various balconies and roof tops 80-200 yards away. It was only the guy in the flood drain opening below the sidewalk curb near the front bumper of the limo, firing within a few yards of JFK that was able to hit him and sent half his brain flying backwards (and why Jackie climbed onto the rear deck of the limo to retrieve her husband's scalp).
1203   Ceffer   2024 Jan 7, 4:17pm  

Reality says


It was only the guy in the flood drain opening below the sidewalk curb near the front bumper of the limo, firing within a few yards of JFK that was able to hit him and set half his brain flying backwards (and why Jackie climbed onto the rear deck of the limo to retrieve her husband's scalp).

That was the scenario they showed in the X Files, when the cigarette smoking man was the assassin in the storm drain.

There is that mafia assassin (James Files) who claims to have delivered the shot from the grassy knoll with a fireball rifle. The only problem with that, he is alive to brag about it. His story about logistics is interesting if one can surmise the truth from the fiction. But, he would have been cancelled a long time ago if he had been the shooter.

However, I suppose they let him live as long as he keeps huffing the disinformation. They are still protecting the identity of the storm drain shooter.
1204   Bd6r   2024 Jan 7, 4:20pm  

I can hit a chest-sized target pretty well at 100 yards with iron sights in any wind/weather with my k31 and Swedish Mauser, and I am no sharpshooter.
1205   RWSGFY   2024 Jan 7, 4:22pm  

Dude, do you even shoot? You wall of text hinges on "bullets don't travel straight" which somehow in your mind makes a shot at a very mild down angle from a very modest distance "impossible". In fact, it's very easy to compensate for elevation change. Moreover, at the distance we're talking about it might not be even necessary when shooting at a human-sized target. Even if a round aimed at COM hits slightly higher it will still hit the target (in the head - exactly where it hit).

Borrow any surplus rifle, go out and shoot at someting human-sized 100 yards away - it's stoopid easy to hit.
1206   Ceffer   2024 Jan 7, 4:27pm  

" either a paid or self-motivated propagandist bent on the cover-up". It is a besmirch to suggest doing it for free.
1207   RWSGFY   2024 Jan 7, 4:35pm  

Ceffer says


" either a paid or self-motivated propagandist bent on the cover-up". It is a besmirch to suggest doing it for free.


Yeah, somebody trying to gaslight a small board into believing that a 20-degree downhill shot at 90 yards with s scoped battle rifle in the hands of US Marine is somehow "impossible" might be a paid shill, but I doubt anybody would actually pay for that. I mean he could probably persuade the subsection of loonies who believe that ".22LR is the ULTIMATE STOPPER", but the people who actually own and shoot military surplus rifles... LOL

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