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2nd Amendment Discussion


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2018 Feb 17, 11:51am   260,628 views  1,326 comments

by CajunSteve   ➕follow (1)   💰tip   ignore  

With all the talk about the school shootings, let's take a look at what the 2nd Amendment actually says:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Couple things to note in there:

1. The specific mention of a militia being the reason for the need to bear arms.
2. The 2nd Amendment never mentions the word gun at all.

So, what exactly is the definition of "arms"?

In 1755 Dr. Johnson’s Dictionary of the English Language was first published. It defined “arms” as “weapons of offence, or armour of defence.”

Weapons of offence would seem to include pretty much anything and everything, from knives to nuclear weapons. The US has already seen fit to ban some weapons of offence so the 2nd Amendment clearly has not been interpreted strictly as meaning that the US cannot ban all "arms". Therefore, the 2nd Amendment does not guarantee citizens the right to own whatever weapons they choose.

So it then becomes a question of which weapons should be banned, which should be strictly regulated, and which should be lightly regulated or not at all. Like anything else, we should weigh an individual's right with society's right. When looked at in that manner, it becomes very difficult to justify why fully automatic or semi automatic rifles should be allowed. What purpose do they serve an individual? And why would that purpose outweigh the extreme damage those weapons have cased society??

Patrick thinks the Chamber of Commerce is the worst organization, and he may be correct, but the NRA is not far behind.



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493   Patrick   2021 May 29, 11:35am  

https://notthebee.com/article/armed-teacher-saves-11-year-old-girl-from-being-kidnapped-during-recess

A bad guy who was high as a kite on narcotics tried to kidnap an 11-year-old girl from the Lincoln Elementary School playground during the school day in Ogden, Utah on Tuesday.

He grabbed her by the arm and tried to drag her off to undoubtedly do unspeakably horrific things to her and maybe even murder her. The bad guy was not the girl's dad or stepdad or uncle; police could not find any connection between the two. He was just a bad guy, high on narcotics, trying to kidnap a little girl while she was playing at recess.

So, why didn't he succeed? He didn't succeed because a teacher who saw what was happening possessed two things:

Bravery
A gun on his hip

And thank God he had both!

The teacher confronted the kidnapper as he was trying to get away with the girl and was able to free her. He then instructed the 19 students who were outside at recess to immediately go inside the school.

You would think that would be the end of the story, but no ... the bad guy pursued them and began bashing on the windows, trying to force his way inside, presumably to get the little girl, or another little girl, or maybe to attack the teacher who had thwarted his kidnapping attempt.

So what does the teacher Mr. Hero do? That's right, at this point he pulled out his trusty sidearm, pointed it at the bad guy, undoubtedly said something slick to help the bad guy understand that he would peel his cap back if he tried to attack the children, and proceeded to hold the scumbag at gunpoint until police arrived.

And THAT is how it's done, folks.

So ... what if this teacher didn't have a firearm? I'll tell you what. The bad guy would have smashed his way into the school, and the teacher would've had to fight him in hand-to-hand combat. Remember, the man was high as a kite and clearly a very bad dude. The teacher's ability to knuckle up with a narcotics-fueled psycho would've been the only thing standing between said psycho and 19 children. It could've ended very, very badly.

Luckily, that didn't have to happen. It didn't end very, very badly. Because even narcotics-fueled psychos usually know to give up when they see the business end of a .40 pointed at their vital organs.
496   Patrick   2021 Jun 8, 9:53am  

https://notthebee.com/article/a-federal-judge-just-struck-down-californias-ban-on-assault-weapons


"One is to be forgiven if one is persuaded by news media and others that the nation is awash with murderous AR-15 assault rifles. The facts, however, do not support this hyperbole, and facts matter. Federal Bureau of Investigation murder statistics do not track assault rifles, but they do show that killing by knife attack is far more common than murder by any kind of rifle. In California, murder by knife occurs seven times more often than murder by rifle. For example, according to F.B.I. statistics for 2019, California saw 252 people murdered with a knife, while 34 people were killed with some type of rifle – not necessarily an AR-15. A Californian is three times more likely to be murdered by an attacker's bare hands, fists, or feet, than by his rifle. In 2018, the statistics were even more lopsided as California saw only 24 murders by some type of rifle. The same pattern can be observed across the nation."
499   Patrick   2021 Jun 13, 10:39am  

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/brandon-smith-real-reasons-why-california-leftists-are-terrified-ar-15



Leftists are driven primarily by two factors: Narcissism, and yes, fear. I’ve discussed their narcissism at great length in past articles; now I think we should delve into their fear. ...

Political elites see California as their own little kingdom with their own special laws, and they plan to eventually spread those laws across America using California as the model. But, if such laws are overturned as unconstitutional, then the precedent actually works in reverse. Now, the leftists are concerned that an overturned gun ban in CA means more blue states will follow and their entire gun grabbing scheme will go out the window.

The leftist mind thinks in terms of unchecked and unhinged “democracy”. Meaning, they believe that the majority is paramount; the majority is law. If a majority in a society wants to take away your freedoms, then they have the right to because they have the mob on their side. 51% rules over the lives of the other 49%. But this is not how things work in a Constitutional Republic.

Under the Bill of Rights your freedoms are codified and sacrosanct. They are inherent and gifted by God (or whatever you happen to believe in); government has no domain over these rights. The right to firearms and self defense is one of these inherent qualities. It does not matter what the State of California thinks, or even what the “majority” of people in California think. If an American in California wants to own an AR-15, then he/she has the right to own an AR-15. ...

When a group of people in power are working hard to remove defensive or even offensive weapons from your hands, it’s best to assume that their intentions are malevolent. They are not trying to help you, they are trying to help themselves. ...

They will deny this motive to the grave, but look at how the political left has been acting lately: They are the only people that have supported mass censorship of opposing viewpoints. They are the only people that are supported by international conglomerates and Big Tech companies. They are the only people that supported the pandemic lockdowns, which were completely useless in stopping the spread of covid, but they were very useful in killing hundreds of thousands of small businesses across the US. They are also the only people in favor of vaccine passports which would destroy the very fabric of our society and erase what is left of our freedoms.

It’s not really surprising that they want to disarm us as well. ...

In other words, they think if they whine long enough and loud enough about an issue someone will come along and give them what they want just to shut them up, even if what they want is illogical or morally bankrupt.

This strategy has worked out for them for many decades so it’s not surprising that they keep using it, but times are changing. Now, the squeaky wheel gets no oil, at least not from gun owners. The squeaky wheel gets nothing.

Gun control is the big line in the sand for most law abiding conservatives and moderates, and we have grown tired of the debate because it’s no longer a debate, it’s a imposition of ideology and cultism. All the facts are on the side of gun owners. All the legal protections are on the side of gun owners. All the moral dynamics are on the side of gun owners. As long as we stand our ground, there is nothing that leftists can do about it.
500   Patrick   2021 Jun 14, 5:25pm  

https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/missouri-firearms-dealer-spotlighted-with-signing-of-second-amendment-preservation-act_3857637.html?utm_source=patrick.net&utm_medium=patrick.net&utm_campaign=patrick.net

Missouri Firearms Dealer Spotlighted with Signing of ‘Second Amendment Preservation Act’
Owner of Missouri gun shop speaks about event, 2nd Amendment, and gun safety
BY JESSICA MARIE BAUMGARTNER June 14, 2021

Missouri gun shop owner Mike Brown said it was “an honor to represent the people” after his store came under the spotlight as host to Gov. Mike Parson’s signing of a new bill to nullify federal gun laws and protect Second Amendment rights in the state.
501   Patrick   2021 Jun 16, 3:26am  

https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_morningbrief/all-29-utah-sheriffs-promise-to-steadfastly-protect-2nd-amendment-amid-gun-control-push_3859757.html?utm_source=patrick.net&utm_medium=patrick.net&utm_campaign=patrick.net


All 29 Utah Sheriffs Promise to ‘Steadfastly Protect’ 2nd Amendment Amid Gun-Control Push
BY JACK PHILLIPS June 15, 2021

Every sheriff in the state of Utah signed a letter saying they would try to safeguard the Second Amendment in the midst of proposed legislation and recent executive orders authorized by President Joe Biden.
502   Patrick   2021 Jun 21, 7:17pm  

http://jpfo.org/alerts2021/alert20210621.htm

Missouri's Republican Gov. Mike Parson signed into law over the weekend the Second Amendment Preservation Act.

The law (Missouri House Bill 85) defines various federal laws that Missouri considers an inherent violation of its citizens' rights under the Second Amendment:

(1) Any tax, levy, fee, or stamp imposed on firearms, firearm accessories, or ammunition not common to all other goods and services and that might reasonably be expected to create a chilling effect on the purchase or ownership of those items by law abiding citizens;

(2) Any registration or tracking of firearms, firearm accessories, or ammunition;

(3) Any registration or tracking of the ownership of firearms, firearm accessories, or ammunition;

(4) Any act forbidding the possession, ownership, use, or transfer of a firearm, firearm accessory, or ammunition by law-abiding citizens; and

(5) Any act ordering the confiscation of firearms, firearm accessories, or ammunition from law-abiding citizens.

Such laws, the new Missouri law insists, "shall be invalid to this state, shall not be recognized by this state, shall be specifically rejected by this state, and shall not be enforced by this state ... .No entity or person, including any public officer or employee of this state or any political subdivision of this state, shall have the authority to enforce or attempt to enforce any federal acts, laws, executive orders, administrative orders, rules, regulations, statutes, or ordinances infringing on the right to keep and bear arms."
505   Onvacation   2021 Jun 26, 11:02am  

TOM COTTON GIVES DEMOCRATS A HARSH DOSE OF REALITY ABOUT GUN CONTROL IN SENATE HEARING
506   Bd6r   2021 Jun 26, 12:51pm  

MisdemeanorRebellionNoCoupForYou says
You can buy grenade launchers (and flare guns) legally, in most states at least.


Yugoslavian SKS versions have a grenade launcher, and can be bought in most of US of A perfectly legally:

508   SoTex   2021 Jun 27, 11:16am  

Rb6d says
SKS versions


I took the wood off mine. All plastic, folding stock, shorter barrel (paratrooper version) and had the bayonet.

Easily hidden in a trench coat. I wish I hadn't given it away when I moved. Even if it was Chinese made.
509   RWSGFY   2021 Jun 27, 1:34pm  

It's really hilarious when donkeys tell that rifles are useless because the government has F-15s and nukes while pulling out of Afghanistan where our adversaries have nothing but rifles.
510   AmericanKulak   2021 Jun 27, 2:27pm  

Rb6d says
Yugoslavian SKS versions have a grenade launcher, and can be bought in most of US of A perfectly legally:


I watched some videos about the spring powered P I AT. I learned the shape and angle of the propelled object hitting an surface is far more important than the speed it travels at.

They were made by Polish underground members too, with basic machine tools.
511   Bd6r   2021 Jun 27, 2:28pm  

just_passing_through says
I took the wood off mine. All plastic, folding stock, shorter barrel (paratrooper version) and had the bayonet.

I like the wood stock..I am transitioning to being an old fart.
513   RWSGFY   2021 Jun 27, 3:10pm  

Rb6d says
Yugoslavian SKS versions have a grenade launcher, and can be bought in most of US of A perfectly legally:


Right, but where are you going to get Comblock rifle grenades for it?
514   thenuttyneutron   2021 Jun 27, 3:13pm  

FuckCCP89 says
Rb6d says
Yugoslavian SKS versions have a grenade launcher, and can be bought in most of US of A perfectly legally:


Right, but where are you going to get Comblock rifle grenades for it?


They use standard NATO grenades. You can buy dummy practice grenades. You just need to make sure that you get the "blanks" that are used to launch them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SKS/comments/jdqyrc/yugo_sks_dummy_grenade/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22_mm_grenade

I don't know why they went with the NATO grenade standard.
515   Booger   2021 Jun 27, 3:16pm  

FuckCCP89 says
Right, but where are you going to get Comblock rifle grenades for it?


Sweden.
516   Bd6r   2021 Jun 27, 9:41pm  

Booger says
Sweden.

he-he...lets prohibit grenades and have no-grenade zones in Malmo
517   SoTex   2021 Jun 27, 10:01pm  

Rb6d says
I like the wood stock..I am transitioning to being an old fart.


I was maybe 22-23...
518   Patrick   2021 Jun 29, 5:16pm  

http://jpfo.org/smith/smith-why-have-to-be-guns.htm

Make no mistake: all politicians—even those ostensibly on the side of guns and gun ownership—hate the issue and anyone, like me, who insists on bringing it up. They hate it because it’s an X-ray machine. It’s a Vulcan mind-meld. It’s the ultimate test to which any politician—or political philosophy—can be put.

If a politician isn’t perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash—for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything—without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn’t your friend no matter what he tells you. ...

What his attitude—toward your ownership and use of weapons—conveys is his real attitude about you. And if he doesn’t trust you, then why in the name of John Moses Browning should you trust him?

If he doesn’t want you to have the means of defending your life, do you want him in a position to control it?

If he makes excuses about obeying a law he’s sworn to uphold and defend—the highest law of the land, the Bill of Rights—do you want to entrust him with anything?

If he ignores you, sneers at you, complains about you, or defames you, if he calls you names only he thinks are evil—like "Constitutionalist"—when you insist that he account for himself, hasn’t he betrayed his oath, isn’t he unfit to hold office, and doesn’t he really belong in jail?

Sure, these are all leading questions. They’re the questions that led me to the issue of guns and gun ownership as the clearest and most unmistakable demonstration of what any given politician—or political philosophy—is really made of. ...

And if there are dangerous weirdos out there, does it make sense to deprive you of the means of protecting yourself from them? Forget about those other people, those dangerous weirdos, this is about you, and it has been, all along. ...

Makes voting simpler, doesn’t it? You don’t have to study every issue—health care, international trade—all you have to do is use this X-ray machine, this Vulcan mind-meld, to get beyond their empty words and find out how politicians really feel. About you. And that, of course, is why they hate it.


This is a new idea for me, that just about anyone should be able to walk into a hardware store, buy a gun with cash and no ID, and walk out. Pretty sure I don't want psychos doing that, but otoh, the limits on psychos end up turning into limits on anyone who opposes the corporate-liberal Ivy League elite.

It's also a new idea to me that you can judge all politicians on this single issue. Maybe you can in fact, because it really is about whether your political representatives trust you. If they don't trust you, why should you trust them?
519   richwicks   2021 Jun 29, 5:33pm  

Patrick says
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/supreme-court-shuts-down-police-attempts-search-homes-without-warrant

The Supreme Court on Monday shut down a police attempt to enter homes without a warrant, siding against the Biden administration.

The court, in a unanimous decision, found that police, using the "community caretaking" exception to the Fourth Amendment's prohibitions on unreasonable searches and seizures, were not allowed to enter a Rhode Island man's home and take his guns. Justice Clarence Thomas wrote the court's opinion, saying that police had violated the "very core of the Fourth Amendment."


When's the last time the court didn't have a unanimous decision?
520   PeopleUnited   2021 Jun 29, 6:15pm  

Patrick says
If a politician isn’t perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash—for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything—without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn’t your friend no matter what he tells you. ...


This is the no bullshit version of honesty. In fact I once asked a Republican candidate for governor what he would do to support the second amendment and the asshole basically blew me and the question off claiming it is a federal not a state issue. Fuck that asshole. If it isn’t a state issue then why the fuck does every state have its own gun laws?

I think your post here Patrick is very important, if a politician refuses to let people freely exercise their second amendment right, it is only a matter of time before other rights are infringed or stolen away from you (in the name of safety and for the children’s sake of course).
521   Bd6r   2021 Jun 29, 8:05pm  

Patrick says
This is a new idea for me, that just about anyone should be able to walk into a hardware store, buy a gun with cash and no ID, and walk out. Pretty sure I don't want psychos doing that, but otoh, the limits on psychos end up turning into limits on anyone who opposes the corporate-liberal Ivy League elite.

It's also a new idea to me that you can judge all politicians on this single issue.

You can bring your guns into Texas House and Senate, provided that you have concealed carry permit.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/gun-permit-allows-visitors-quick-access-to-texas-capitol
524   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2021 Jul 4, 5:54pm  

PeopleUnited says
Patrick says
If a politician isn’t perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash—for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything—without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn’t your friend no matter what he tells you. ...


This is the no bullshit version of honesty. In fact I once asked a Republican candidate for governor what he would do to support the second amendment and the asshole basically blew me and the question off claiming it is a federal not a state issue. Fuck that asshole. If it isn’t a state issue then why the fuck does every state have its own gun laws?

I think your post here Patrick is very important, if a politician refuses to let people freely exercise their second amendment right, it is only a matter of time before other rights are infringed or stolen ...


It’s what I learned long ago too about politicians. They are whores for sale or actors for establishment with no principles. Party is irrelevant.
525   Patrick   2021 Jul 6, 1:41pm  

Star Spangled Banner set to gunfire. It's an ad for a coffee company, but OK, well done.


527   Hircus   2021 Jul 6, 2:19pm  

Booger says
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/huge-economic-boost-new-west-virginian-now-makes-gun-and-ammo-purchases-tax-free


Awesome.

I kinda wish it was done by a state deeper in the south though. If there's ever a civil war, WV being so northern might be harder to defend, and would be a prize target if it develops extensive arms manufacturing capacity.
528   RC2006   2021 Jul 6, 5:46pm  

People are still buying like crazy, states seem to be moving further apart. Do any of you ever think things might just collapse really fast like Soviet Union? Liberal states can't even afford to throw their criminal hordes in jail.
529   Eric Holder   2021 Jul 6, 6:01pm  

RC2006 says
Liberal states can't even afford to throw their criminal hordes in jail.


Who said they can't afford that? If they can afford to spend $139M to silly things like "provide funding for community-led efforts to prevent and respond to shootings" (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/06/nyregion/new-york-gun-violence-emergency.html) , they definitely could afford proper law enforcement. They just don't want to.
530   Patrick   2021 Jul 6, 6:05pm  

https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2021/7/6/someone-please-hand-this-american-history-lesson-to-president-biden


The evidence is clear that ordinary citizens could and did buy cannons; in fact, many Americans own cannons today. ...

You do not own a cannon? Why not? When I lived in the Bay Area of California, a friend was a Civil War Reenactor. He often towed a 4-inch cannon to events. Police would sometimes pull him over, ostensibly to see if he had license for it, but mostly out of curiosity. (Yes, think of the scene in The Mask where police pull a bazooka out of Jim Carrey’s pants, and his response, “I have a permit for that.”) His response was always the same: “I don’t need one. It’s black powder.” He had fired cannonballs from it at a special cannon range back east. He claimed it was accurate to 1,000 yards and capable of firing to 1,600 yards.
531   RC2006   2021 Jul 6, 6:50pm  

Cannon will be my next purchase, thanks Patrick! I'll add some accecories to it and make it an assult cannon.

http://steencannons.com/cannons/
532   Bd6r   2021 Jul 6, 6:53pm  

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/904393619

CIVIL WAR US NAVY 8" DAHLGREN CANNON ON CARRIAGE

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