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2nd Amendment Discussion


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2018 Feb 17, 11:51am   236,841 views  1,258 comments

by CajunSteve   ➕follow (1)   💰tip   ignore  

With all the talk about the school shootings, let's take a look at what the 2nd Amendment actually says:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Couple things to note in there:

1. The specific mention of a militia being the reason for the need to bear arms.
2. The 2nd Amendment never mentions the word gun at all.

So, what exactly is the definition of "arms"?

In 1755 Dr. Johnson’s Dictionary of the English Language was first published. It defined “arms” as “weapons of offence, or armour of defence.”

Weapons of offence would seem to include pretty much anything and everything, from knives to nuclear weapons. The US has already seen fit to ban some weapons of offence so the 2nd Amendment clearly has not been interpreted strictly as meaning that the US cannot ban all "arms". Therefore, the 2nd Amendment does not guarantee citizens the right to own whatever weapons they choose.

So it then becomes a question of which weapons should be banned, which should be strictly regulated, and which should be lightly regulated or not at all. Like anything else, we should weigh an individual's right with society's right. When looked at in that manner, it becomes very difficult to justify why fully automatic or semi automatic rifles should be allowed. What purpose do they serve an individual? And why would that purpose outweigh the extreme damage those weapons have cased society??

Patrick thinks the Chamber of Commerce is the worst organization, and he may be correct, but the NRA is not far behind.



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975   NuttBoxer   2023 Apr 7, 7:43am  

My Robinson Armament XCR should be finished in about a month or so. Looking forward to getting that on the firing range.
980   just_passing_through   2023 Apr 16, 12:40pm  

Not a good look.
982   SunnyvaleCA   2023 Apr 16, 4:27pm  

Gun buybacks can be a great source of extra money!
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/11/new-york-gun-buyback-rules-3d-printed-parts

I believe the Freakonomics guys had a podcast on the futility of buybacks. The reasoning was that any given gun overall had something like 0.001% chance of being used in a murder, so if you're buyback pays a $200 bounty, you'd have to spend $20MM to stop a single murder. And, of course, the guns most likely to be used in a murder are least likely to be sold back and/or murderers aren't likely to sell back all of their guns.
983   SunnyvaleCA   2023 Apr 16, 4:34pm  

Booger says





A better analogy is that you don't need a license to buy a fishing pole, own a fishing pole, or carry one around in public anywhere.
985   Patrick   2023 Apr 24, 3:05pm  

https://jpfo.org/articles-2023/how-british-gun-control.htm


How the British 'Gun Control' Program Precipitated the American Revolution

When people think of the causes of the American War for Independence, they think of slogans like “no taxation without representation” or cause célèbre like the Boston Tea Party.

In reality, however, what finally forced the colonials into a shooting war with the British Army in April 1775 was not taxes or even warrant-less searches of homes and their occupation by soldiers, but one of many attempts by the British to disarm Americans as part of an overall 'gun control' program, according to David B. Kopel.

Furthermore, had the American colonies lost their war for independence, the British government intended to strip them of all their guns and place them under the thumb of a permanent standing army.

In his paper titled “How the British 'Gun Control' Program Precipitated the American Revolution,” Kopel claims that various 'gun control' policies by the British following the Boston Tea Party, including a ban on firearm and gunpowder importation, tells us not only the purpose of the Second Amendment, but its relevance within the context of today’s 'gun control' debate.

“The ideology underlying all forms of American resistance to British usurpations and infringements was explicitly premised on the right of self-defense of all inalienable rights,” Kopel writes. “From the self-defense foundation was constructed a political theory in which the people were the masters and government the servant, so that the people have the right to remove a disobedient servant. The philosophy was not novel, but was directly derived from political and legal philosophers such as John Locke, Hugo Grotius, and Edward Coke.”

Kopel writes that two important things underlined the American response to the British policies. One was the practical concept of self-defense, which British disarmament measures was making more difficult. The other, and more relevant concept, was that “Americans made no distinction between self-defense against a lone criminal or against a criminal government.”
997   ForcedTQ   2023 May 11, 12:34pm  

Patrick says






Also Honduras: Owned and run by drug cartels…
998   Patrick   2023 May 15, 12:34pm  

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/mar/29/when-my-family-was-disarmed-armenian-genocide-perp/


We know from the Ottoman Penal Code that the firearm registry was universal and instituted before the genocide. In addition to a gun registry, there were specific penalties put in place for Christians if they were caught openly bearing arms. Despite these restrictions, I’m proud that people in my ancestors’ village of Tomarza were known to openly carry guns in direct defiance of the tyrannical Turkish government.

Unfortunately, their defiance did not stop the Turks in the long run. My great-grandfather’s brother, an eyewitness, wrote in a letter that after the Turks declared that all registered guns would be confiscated, it resulted in “all weapons, even hunting guns, [being] surrendered to the government.” If anyone refused to do so, they would be put to death.
1000   Patrick   2023 May 22, 3:34pm  

https://jpfo.org/articles-2023/65-of-usa-right-to-carry-no-permit.htm

65% of USA Enjoys Right to Carry without a Government Permission Slip



1001   NuttBoxer   2023 May 23, 8:53am  

Arizona is not open carry though. That is allowed to be restricted by local jurisdictions. In that case you would still need to apply for a CC permit to carry everywhere...
1002   Eric Holder   2023 May 23, 6:26pm  

Patrick says




https://archive.ph/2020.07.12-074312/https://imgur.com/a/AIIbbPs

Tiananmen.


Color revolution. Good thing it was quashed. Amirite? We can't have these CIA-induced coups against our GREAT ANTIGLOBALIST LEADERS, no Siree Bob!
1004   richwicks   2023 May 26, 1:13pm  

Eric Holder says

Patrick says





https://archive.ph/2020.07.12-074312/https://imgur.com/a/AIIbbPs

Tiananmen.


Color revolution. Good thing it was quashed. Amirite? We can't have these CIA-induced coups against our GREAT ANTIGLOBALIST LEADERS, no Siree Bob!


The United States began to trade with China AFTER Tienanmen Square, not before.
1005   Eric Holder   2023 May 26, 1:22pm  

richwicks says

Eric Holder says


Patrick says






https://archive.ph/2020.07.12-074312/https://imgur.com/a/AIIbbPs

Tiananmen.


Color revolution. Good thing it was quashed. Amirite? We can't have these CIA-induced coups against our GREAT ANTIGLOBALIST LEADERS, no Siree Bob!



The United States began to trade with China AFTER Tienanmen Square, not before.


So it's not a good thing that CIA-induced color revolution was quashed, you say?
1007   AD   2023 May 27, 4:29pm  

looking at websites like Cheaper than Dirt and Ammo Land, everything is down a lot in price

as if ammo and 9 mm handguns are back to 2018 prices

.
1008   richwicks   2023 May 27, 4:29pm  

Eric Holder says

So it's not a good thing that CIA-induced color revolution was quashed, you say?


I'm saying if the CIA was involved, it was the CIA that quashed it.

The CIA has NO RECORD EVER of supporting a democratic movement. They have multiple examples of throwing over democratic republics though.

Iran, Gautama, Chile, Ukraine most recently.

Name any color revolution that happened in the last 10 years that worked out for either the United States or the victim countries. I'm so sick of people thinking "oh, this time it will be beneficial". The CIA isn't making errors, it's not making mistakes, this the outcome they want. Chaos. WHY? I have no idea. Maybe it gains some small amount of power for a tiny group of people. CIA doesn't work for the benefit of the United States.
1009   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2023 May 27, 6:44pm  

ad says

looking at websites like Cheaper than Dirt and Ammo Land, everything is down a lot in price

as if ammo and 9 mm handguns are back to 2018 prices

.


share links please!
1010   NuttBoxer   2023 Jun 3, 8:36am  

Pistol brace law is dead, gonna see about getting my order updated:

https://zerohedge.com/political/federal-judge-blocks-atf-pistol-brace-rule-major-gun-group

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